Has anyone else experienced whenever someone makes an insensitive/bigoted comment to you or someone else only to justify it with rational arguments?

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

note: you don’t need to reply to this thread if you don’t want to. Also if you do, please be nice and understanding. Thank you.

I’ve seen this often in abusive relationships and even in online debates where someone will talk crap about you or another person and will make so-called rational excuses for their bad behavior to make them appear as if they’re in the right.

They’ll attempt to get you mad by being manipulative and projecting blame onto you for getting “offended” or “mad” especially if you have a very good reason to feel that way. Then when finally confront them and tell them they’re wrong for what they said, they’ll deny anything wrong they’ve done and instead will claim what they said is just a “disagreement” and how you just got “upset” over something you “asked” for. THEN they will twist the story and portray you as the bully meanwhile they view themselves as the innocent bystander (aka the “all I said was…” card).

In other words, they demonize you and others’ individuality and experiences, while they minimize their own bad behavior with the argument which describes itself in a nutshell as this: “I will justify my wrongful actions by talking out of my ass, making my arguments appear far more rational, and placing labels onto my opponent and accuse them of doing something that I did”. These are the kinds of people that will NEVER shut up, no matter how much effort you take to prove them wrong. They’ll say you just want opinions that align with your own and cannot handle criticism and will claim that they’re just giving you a “reality check”.

I myself have experienced this ALL THE TIME. I cut off contact with such people because you can NEVER win an argument, no matter how hard you try, and they do nothing but drain your already low energy. They’ll act like they’re holier than thou yet when you stand up for yourself they’ll go DARVO (Deny-Argue-Reverse Victim and Offender) on you. They can act like they’re not offended in the slightest because they’re “rational” and frame you as the bad guy because you dared to argue their point when you “know” they’re actually “right” and speaking the “truth” so therefore YOU must be the one who’s offended, but in actuality, they’re just insecure.

You can insert any sort of bigotry such as racism, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, etc. and it will all align to the same outcome. In other words “how dare you have a voice?! Therefore I will frame you as privileged and delusional so your argument will be pointless so that I can be right”. No matter how much you ignore them, they will never stop until they’re caught.

So that’s all I got to say, I really needed to get this off my chest as I’m currently dealing with a narcissistic internet troll who claims to be more rational than I am. So anyways, have you experienced anything similar?

 

[Slime_Punk]

Honestly, I can't speak for anyone else, but the best way for me to deal with issues like this has been to quit being so offended by things that other people say. I've felt very thin-skinned for a huge portion of my life, but recently I realized that I didn't have to be offended or feel persecuted if someone's beliefs or opinions clashed with mine -- even if it feels rather personal at the time or involves my ego, personality, ASD, etc.

Of course, I can't give this advice to anyone else because it's more of a personal choice, but going forward I just want to give my perceived 'enemies' a high-five and say, "You know what? You're right. My bad", even if I originally felt self-righteous in my stance against them. For me, it's literally the only way forward.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

Honestly, I can't speak for anyone else, but the best way for me to deal with issues like this has been to quit being so offended by things that other people say. I've felt very thin-skinned for a huge portion of my life, but recently I realized that I didn't have to be offended or feel persecuted if someone's beliefs or opinions clashed with mine -- even if it feels rather personal at the time or involves my ego, personality, ASD, etc.

Of course, I can't give this advice to anyone else because it's more of a personal choice, but going forward I just want to give my perceived 'enemies' a high-five and say, "You know what? You're right. My bad", even if I originally felt self-righteous in my stance against them. For me, it's literally the only way forward.

You can say to just stop getting offended, but this doesn’t work for people who are living with high sensitivity or other mental health problems.

Telling someone to not get offended allows the person doing the harm to get away with bad behavior. It tells you to bottle up your emotions while the advice minimizes your experiences. Honestly, it’s like telling someone to stop feeling physical pain even if it hurts you really bad. Sure, you can take medications to lighten the pain, but for more severe illnesses, it will not go away unless it’s properly addressed.

This is not to dismiss your concerns though. This is only my personal view.

 

[Slime_Punk]

You can say to just stop getting offended, but this doesn’t work for people who are living with high sensitivity or other mental health problems.

Telling someone to not get offended allows the person doing the harm to get away with bad behavior. It tells you to bottle up your emotions while the advice minimizes your experiences. Honestly, it’s like telling someone to stop feeling physical pain even if it hurts you really bad. Sure, you can take medications to lighten the pain, but for more severe illnesses, it will not go away unless it’s properly addressed.

This is not to dismiss your concerns though. This is only my personal view.

Yes, you're absolutely right. That's why I always strive to select terminology that implies what I'm working on within myself, and never tell others what I think they should do. But in my experience, it's not about removing the pain or sting from the perceived insult or blow to the ego, but more about feeling that pain, taking a deep breath, dusting myself off and giving them a "Well played, sir" handshake, even if they hit me below the belt.

Oddly enough, this feels a bit like a contrast to bottling up emotions, because once that vengeance-seeking anger dissipates, it gets replaced with a genuine feeling of compassion for my perceived enemy. It's almost like the psychological concept of reframing, or maybe even persuading my ego to turn the other cheek.

I also think my highly-sensitive nature makes this difficult, but still worth doing!

 

[Hypnalis]

@2Fragile2TakeCriticism

Your question is anchored on these two words: "insensitive/bigoted".
Those two don't generally belong together:

"Insensitive" is relative and situational. Some people are sensitive to common, normal behavior. They may wish to change the world, but they will certainly fail.

"Bigoted" is about breaking the rules and expectations of society. If something can be accurately defined as bigoted, society as a whole is actively working on that particular issue. An individual exposed to it can reasonably push back, but they don't have to - the underlying problem will be addressed eventually either way.

People who try to resolve all of society's problems all the time are usually stressed out by it.

Things change over time - it can take 50 years to fully resolve (or to create - sadly this works both ways) a problem that deserves that kind of terminology. Trying to do it one person at a time isn't necessarily wrong, but it's not effective, it has negative side effects, and it's quite likely to go on for a large part of your lifetime..

Hopefully you can see the connection between this and what @Slime_Punk shared above.
Stress is very harmful - too much (including continuous low-level stress) will literally cut years off your life, and "to add insult to injury", it makes you unhappy as well.

Note that beliefs and stress management aren't objectively connected.
Even when you decide to interact, you don't need to be "wound up" to argue your side. In fact the opposite is true - you'd prefer to be calm, and to have the "other side" running on adrenaline.

 

[Suzanne]

Funny, because just the other day, someone said something pretty offensive to me, but for the first time, I did not react sensitivily, I just enquire why such a thing was said? Did not get a proper answer, but concluded this person was just being loose with the mouth ie not thinking properly. However, it was my inner feelings that surprised me. I felt so calm. Whereas usually, I am burning with anger.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

Funny, because just the other day, someone said something pretty offensive to me, but for the first time, I did not react sensitivily, I just enquire why such a thing was said? Did not get a proper answer, but concluded this person was just being loose with the mouth ie not thinking properly. However, it was my inner feelings that surprised me. I felt so calm. Whereas usually, I am burning with anger.

I don’t know how you managed to feel so calm when it feels very natural to feel overwhelmed by something insensitive. Not saying you shouldn’t though.

I feel this is because you were so burned out with these comments that you started feeling numb. Don’t know if this is the case but it could be possible. This would definitely be the same thing for me where I would just end up feeling so shocked to the point where I can’t feel anything for a while.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Suzanne

Have you experienced an internal change lately?

More likely "letting something go" (harder to identify as it happens) than psychological insight, but the details don't matter.

 

[Gerontius]

I'm in a Catholic college and survived homeschooling with religious curricula. I have lived the title of this post. Get me out of here.

And no I don't go out of my way to be politically correct, I just get tired of being expected to agree with awful takes from terrible people.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I'm in a Catholic college and survived homeschooling with religious curricula. I have lived the title of this post. Get me out of here.

And no I don't go out of my way to be politically correct, I just get tired of being expected to agree with awful takes from terrible people.

I feel the same way. I’m not a huge fan of political correctness either. Although I strongly identify with my extreme sensitivity, but that’s beside the point. I hope you manage to escape from that horrible place as soon as you can. Run far away and never return.

 

[Angular Chap]

Yes, I've experienced this many times in the past when I was being bullied.

Worse still is when they manipulate other people against you, sometimes even people with the power and authority to protect you. It turns into excuses, enablers, apologists and victim blaming. Even worse, I find it hard to tell was the enabler manipulated against me by the bully? Or was the enabler a natural victim blamer from the start?

Even to this day when I bring up my past experiences, I still hear the same old excuses "You must have done something to upset them." "You must have done something wrong, then." "Oh well, it's all in the past." "You're over-reacting" and so many other excuses, like a excuse factory.

I have started also calling these people con artists and scammers, after all they use the same techniques to manipulate people and to get away with their actions.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

Yes, I've experienced this many times in the past when I was being bullied.

Worse still is when they manipulate other people against you, sometimes even people with the power and authority to protect you. It turns into excuses, enablers, apologists and victim blaming. Even worse, I find it hard to tell was the enabler manipulated against me by the bully? Or was the enabler a natural victim blamer from the start?

Even to this day when I bring up my past experiences, I still hear the same old excuses "You must have done something to upset them." "You must have done something wrong, then." "Oh well, it's all in the past." "You're over-reacting" and so many other excuses, like a excuse factory.

I have started also calling these people con artists and scammers, after all they use the same techniques to manipulate people and to get away with their actions.

Yeah, I’ve seen a few people manipulate others against me as well. It’s strange how they justify their bigotry by sugarcoating it as an opinion/disagreement and any justified criticism you gave to them based on their actions is somehow bullying and just you getting offended over being received a reality check.

It’s sad.

 

[WildCat]

A few thoughts...

You can't win with an internet troll. Kick them out if they're a part of an online community like this one, sure, but beyond that you still can't win. OK, maybe you can "win", but any response you give them just enables them even more, and then comes a bunch of questions - what was said, did you prove their point, was this worth the time, etc.? If they're narcissistic - as in, actually, truly narcissistic - troll or not, you can forget about it.

Not a popular take, but I've found building up a thick skin is a HUGE advantage, not just online but offline when you're out and about in the world having to interact with others, some of whom one way or another are going to rub you the wrong way, intentionally or not. I've been there, done that, then realized that at the end of the day I'm not obligated to give them any of my energy if I don't want or have to. Anyone trying that with me, especially now? They're going to get a crash course in free will.

I'd say for a lot, if not nearly all, of these sorts of people, life's about winning at any cost and avoiding the losses, rather than a gradual process of learning from mistakes and striving to be better than what you were. I can at least rest assured that in a "dog eat dog" world, there's always a bigger dog out there eager to put them in their place.

 

[Gerontius]

A few thoughts...

You can't win with an internet troll. Kick them out if they're a part of an online community like this one, sure, but beyond that you still can't win. If they're narcissistic - as in, actually, truly narcissistic - troll or not, you can forget about it.

Not a popular take, but I've found building up a thick skin is a HUGE advantage, not just online but offline when you're out and about in the world having to interact with others, some of whom one way or another are going to rub you the wrong way, intentionally or not. I've been there, done that, then realized that at the end of the day I'm not obligated to give them any of my energy if I don't want or have to. Anyone trying that with me, especially now? They're going to get a crash course in free will.

I'd say for a lot, if not nearly all, of these sorts of people, life's about winning at any cost and avoiding the losses, rather than a gradual process of learning from mistakes and striving to be better than what you were. I can at least rest assured that in a "dog eat dog" world, there's always a bigger dog out there eager to put them in their place.

This is absolutely true about a thick skin.

Fwiw horses have a very thick skin but are still very sensitive. They are just really good at moderating pain reactivity. Unfortunately people think they are insensate but they just prioritize what they respond to.

Also I like the Felix profile picture.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

A few thoughts...

You can't win with an internet troll. Kick them out if they're a part of an online community like this one, sure, but beyond that you still can't win. If they're narcissistic - as in, actually, truly narcissistic - troll or not, you can forget about it.

Not a popular take, but I've found building up a thick skin is a HUGE advantage, not just online but offline when you're out and about in the world having to interact with others, some of whom one way or another are going to rub you the wrong way, intentionally or not. I've been there, done that, then realized that at the end of the day I'm not obligated to give them any of my energy if I don't want or have to. Anyone trying that with me, especially now? They're going to get a crash course in free will.

I'd say for a lot, if not nearly all, of these sorts of people, life's about winning at any cost and avoiding the losses, rather than a gradual process of learning from mistakes and striving to be better than what you were. I can at least rest assured that in a "dog eat dog" world, there's always a bigger dog out there eager to put them in their place.

On surface, having thick skin does seem like a benefit, but in reality it suggests that you repress your instincts and thus starts to damage your physical and mental health.

You Don't Need 'Thick Skin'; Try This Instead

Being human and engaging in challenging conversations isn’t easy, but if you apply these communication tools things will go a lot smoother - much better than just trying to tough it out and have "thick skin."

www.forbes.com

The link above gives a good recommendation on how to effectively acknowledge your reactions. I personally think instead of ignoring, which that will still enable bad behavior only targeting someone else, we need to learn to set boundaries.

Setting boundaries is perhaps the best option for our benefit. While we will still refrain from arguing, we are still acknowledging that our feelings are still valid and must find ways to talk it out to someone who trusts us. While it’s not always possible to report people who act out, we shouldn’t act like what we’re reacting to is nothing.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

This is absolutely true about a thick skin.

Fwiw horses have a very thick skin but are still very sensitive. They are just really good at moderating pain reactivity. Unfortunately people think they are insensate but they just prioritize what they respond to.

Also I like the Felix profile picture.

I personally think it’s unrealistic to have thick skin in human beings. For animals, it’s different because their bodies work differently from ours. With that said, it’s NATURAL for humans to have prioritized reactions. Your thoughts, feelings, and reactions all work together in the brain to create the way we operate.

However what you say about humans believing they have thick skin when they don’t is true. This is because we were told that our feelings do not matter and all we needed to do is to toughen up. This is especially bad advice for men as they are more discouraged for having any sort of reaction (usually feminine) compared to women. Meanwhile women are discouraged from feeling angry (especially for a justified case).

In short, it’s a lose-lose situation. But developing thick skin is only going to make things worse, as you’re restraining yourself from feeling anything and will eventually make yourself physically ill. This is very common in people with anxiety-related conditions. Addressing your feelings to someone you trust is the best way to moving forward.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

1. I go back to my favorite two words when dealing with people: Perspective and context.

2. People have cognitive biases. It's some combination of life experience, knowledge, and mistakes. It's there own wisdom that guides them through life. You and I cannot change that, all we can do is make some attempt to understand it.

3. Throw in personality disorder(s). Narcissism. Sociopathy. Psychopathy. Machiavellianism.

4. Throw in primal, primate biology rooted deep in our DNA. It's about domination and submission.

5. I cannot change another person's mind. They have to be open to changing their mind.

If you have a deep need for justice and fairness, see things in black and white, you're in for a lifetime of anger and disappointment. The world is anything but. Every person will have different cognitive biases and wisdom. They can be right or wrong. You can be right or wrong. It's all about perspective and context. We are tiny, unique, and insignificant. We don't have a "world view", we can't possibly. We have our tiny little unique life experience, such as it is. The same for the other person.

When we have a conflict with others, a part of us has to step back and observe what really is going on. Two hairy apes fighting over domination and submission, but these two apes have enough intellect to have mental tools and/or manipulative personality disorders. If someone goes on the attack, or is triggered into an attack, all this, is a response to a threat to a perceived dominance that one or the other had of the other. I'm right and you're wrong, and then the fight ensues, or I will trigger you into a fight by poking at your sensitivities.

It's really a game of power of one person over another. A sick, twisted game, but a game none-the-less. Recognize it as such, smile at it like you know something they don't, and move on. If you're being triggered, you're playing the fool by being a sucker of manipulation and they've already won.

 

[LadyS]

But developing thick skin is only going to make things worse, as you’re restraining yourself from feeling anything and will eventually make yourself physically ill.

Are you sure about this? Because from what I've read it seems "growing thicker skin" has worked for the ones who've posted about it.. looks like they're doing fine, not constantly worrying themselves with other people's comments...and in contrast you seem to be making yourself ill over insensitive comments?

But I also think "growing thicker skin" is very literal interpretation of growing a protective barrier around one's own mental health and being to shield it from outsiders trying to manipulate it. And it could mean you do it by creating boundaries with certain people or ignoring, just as you already suggested. So I think it's along the lines of what you're already thinking. Just that everyone finds different ways to accomplish it. And it doesn't mean you stop yourself from feeling anything.. just stops outsiders to get at your feelings.

And it's true growing thicker skin can come with age. It's a survival instinct that you develop in order to function day to day.. but I don't see anyone here who are numb, empty, unfeeling zombies. Emotions are all very human and each person experiences them differently. Same as you.

 

[vergil96]

Yes, I stay away from such people.

They can act like they’re not offended in the slightest because they’re “rational” and frame you as the bad guy because you dared to argue their point when you “know” they’re actually “right” and speaking the “truth” so therefore YOU must be the one who’s offended, but in actuality, they’re just insecure.

If someone "knows the truth", there is no point being in their company. They will boss around.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I personally think it’s unrealistic to have thick skin in human beings. For animals, it’s different because their bodies work differently from ours. With that said, it’s NATURAL for humans to have prioritized reactions. Your thoughts, feelings, and reactions all work together in the brain to create the way we operate.

However what you say about humans believing they have thick skin when they don’t is true. This is because we were told that our feelings do not matter and all we needed to do is to toughen up. This is especially bad advice for men as they are more discouraged for having any sort of reaction (usually feminine) compared to women. Meanwhile women are discouraged from feeling angry (especially for a justified case).

In short, it’s a lose-lose situation. But developing thick skin is only going to make things worse, as you’re restraining yourself from feeling anything and will eventually make yourself physically ill. This is very common in people with anxiety-related conditions. Addressing your feelings to someone you trust is the best way to moving forward.

We are all mammals. Their bodies generally do not work differently. We are much more alike than different.

"Feelings do not matter" for males is a social construct we created back when we were three hairs from being baboons. The men were the ones out hunting and facing the threats of apex predators, as well as prey that could just as easily kill us. Being fearful to the point of inaction meant no procreation, no food, and your ultimate demise. In todays world, going out into the world, working, providing an income, food, shelter, necessities, being a protector, being responsible and accountable, etc. all requires the self-discipline to say to oneself, "I don't care about how I feel, I have a duty to myself and my family." "How much discomfort can I endure so that I can provide for others?" Not everyone can have a "cushy" job. Some people have to do their work in the absolute worst of environments fraught with danger, so that we all can live a "civilized" existence, and the vast majority of those people are men who are physically and mentally capable to just do it despite how they feel.

If you don't have a purpose in life, something to justify your discomfort, then you tend to internalize your emotions. This is what you are talking about when it can make yourself ill. If those feelings don't have a positive outlet, bad things happen. You get into your head. Depression sets in, and it spirals downward. However, if you have an outlet, it never builds up. People forget this important variable.

Being able to manage one's feelings is a valuable mental tool to have. The only way one achieves those mental tools is by exercising the mind through experiencing things that create discomfort.