Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

[Judge]

A large proportion of Germans supported Hitler when he was in his "prime", if you can call it that, many saw him almost like a messiah that came to save Germany.

Actually the German language has no plural or relative equivalent for the word "messiah". When the term was applied to Adolf Hitler, it was meant that he WAS the messiah- period. The one and only, who for many Germans literally displaced Jesus Christ himself. Precisely as Hitler envisioned. Though he preferred the title of "Führer".

I know it's not great, but how long do you hold links to Nazism against someone?

That's a complicated question, especially in a legal sense. Then consider other perspectives like popular opinion and historians. Which leads me to believe that's ultimately relative to their alleged conduct as a German citizen between 1923 and 1945. Whether officially documented or merely speculated on.

A consideration while perhaps harsh, befits both the nature and scale of crimes committed in the name of this particular regime. Yet it also pragmatically accounts for how former participants of Germany's most notorious past went on to be notable and positive personalities in post-war Germany. Including some who became Cold War "assets" whose prosecutions were indefinitely deferred because of their knowledge and skills relative to fighting against Soviet Russia.

And of course there's the issue of those who should have been formally prosecuted who weren't for any number of reasons. Further skewing the equation for those citizens who had more passive and uneventful roles.

In terms of actual precedents, there's never been any "one size fits all" policy when it comes to evaluating former citizens of the Third Reich. Then consider as well how long it took the German people to view German anti-Nazis as national heroes. Something that didn't happen overnight, either.

 

[Crossbreed]

How about adopting Wingian for Dr. Lorna Wing? (Just don't call us Wing Nuts...!)

 

[Otenba]

"Auties" doesn't really have the same feel to "aspies"... Looking up the meaning/origin of the word "autism" online it said "a tendency to view life in terms of one's own needs and desires" which made me think of "selfies", haha! I don't know what I think of that label considering the photos trend.

 

[kay]

"Auties" doesn't really have the same feel to "aspies"... Looking up the meaning/origin of the word "autism" online it said "a tendency to view life in terms of one's own needs and desires" which made me think of "selfies", haha! I don't know what I think of that label considering the photos trend.

I am trying out to find a better word entirely, something that seems more accurate. So far I am at Clinically Quirky or Peculiar. So, no I'm not "just quirky" I'm clinically so. Which is fairly true. Also found sui generis, just don't ask me to pronounce it. Thought perhaps exsync might work but it seems to imply something negative. As far as the feel of the word "aspie" obviously my search has turned up nothing quite as nice. Anyhoo, I have a cold and am not up to doing much else other than researching words so I am going to keep looking for something that sounds good.

 

[Streetwise]

still like neuro diverse

 

[pjcnet]

1. the Asperger's label has been replaced with "Autism Spectrum Disorder" (in the US that I know of), with different tiers...
2. this was decades ago and...
3. I really don't care...

With these findings, I wouldn't be surprised if people chimed in and felt backstabbed, and you really couldn't blame them given this study. As for myself, well, I could care less. Here I am existing in spite of it all, living in the present and looking forward to the future, and trying to let the past go.

Similar is true in the UK now regarding Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), I was initially one of the very few people diagnosed in the 1970s that is now able enough to write because I appeared at first to be on the lower end of the autistic spectrum since I was extremely slow developing speech and also because the highest experts in the country at the time took a special interest in our family since both my brothers and myself were thought to be autistic at a time when autism wasn't thought to be inherited. My 1970s official diagnosis was "mild autism" while my brothers who are very low functioning were simply diagnosed as "autistic" and the diagnosis was made by Professor Rutter (now Sir Professor Rutter for his work with autistic children) when there was no such thing as Asperger Syndrome or even Higher Functioning Autism and that was also when my speech finally started developing as I was about 6 or 7 years old. A couple of years ago however I was given a fresh diagnosis of ASD and OCD, I don't believe anyone gets diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in the UK any more, or at least it's not common, so again it makes Hans Asperger and his alleged Nazi involvement less relevant, and even more so as time goes on because less and less people will refer to themselves as having Asperger Syndrome and eventually it will be virtually unheard of, except in history books.

I don't really like the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder" however because of the word "disorder" and in some ways this is even worse than Asperger Syndrome despite Hans Asperger's alleged Nazi involvement. A "disorder" is something that is wrong and normally it would be desirable to fix or cure it. Often people on the higher functioning end of the autistic spectrum are just different and the main reason it's a disadvantage is because we are living in an NT majority world, but there are often advantages too. I agree with @Streetwise that "neurodiverse" is a much better description.

 

[AllanB]

There's a lot of ruckus in the Twitterverse over this. A lot of people have been changing handles containing "aspie" to something else. Typically exchanging it with "autie" or "autistic".

 

[tducey]

It certainly is something. Doesn't change any of us though. We're mildly autisitc/aspies. No excuse for Naziism though.

 

[wight]

The more one studies history, the more it becomes clear that everyone we consider "heroes" also had terrible flaws and acted in ways contrary to their positive image. Such is the human condition. The lessons of history are always viewed with both aspects in mind, learning both from the best (what to do) and worst (what not to do).

In my opinion, Asperger being part and parcel of the "Nazi machinery" damages him personally, but not necessarily his findings regarding psychology and autism.

Freud was a cocaine and heroine addict, does that make his fundamental ground work on human psychology invalid? I don't think so. Not that I'm a big fan of Freud, neither do I discount his theories entirely.

 

[Mary Anne]

Some of the top world pharmaceutical companies (Bayer is one) also were from Nazi Germany. As were medical doctors . Both were INVITED to the United States for their extraordinary knowledge and scientific expertise once WW2 ended. The doctors were given governmental labs/ jobs, and were able to escape any war crime trials. A lot of modern day medicine and medical technology came about due to WW2 Nazi doctors. It blows my mind, but it’s true! It’s easy to research.

 

[Ylva]

I couldn't bring myself to read Neurotribes, and I can't bring myself to read that article. All I can say is: I always hoped he tried to save as many as he could, but my hopes weren't all that high.

People who joined the Nazi party for other reasons than agreeing with the ideology were still nazis, weren't they.

 

[Progster]

I don't believe anyone gets diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in the UK any more, or at least it's not common, so again it makes Hans Asperger and his alleged Nazi involvement less relevant, and even more so as time goes on because less and less people will refer to themselves as having Asperger Syndrome and eventually it will be virtually unheard of, except in history books.

So what happens if you were diagnosed with Asperger's under the DSM IV, does that mean that you can't use use the terrm because it is obsolete, you should use the term ASD instead? Could I say that I have ASD, even though my diagnosis is for Asperger's, not ASD?

 

[Bolletje]

So what happens if you were diagnosed with Asperger's under the DSM IV, does that mean that you can't use use the terrm because it is obsolete, you should use the term ASD instead?

You can still use the term, as Aspergers is what you were diagnosed with. You can also choose to refer to it as ASD instead, but it’s not mandatory in any way.
For instance, when I was diagnosed a few years ago, my therapist told me I have Aspergers, but that according to DSM V it would be called high functioning or mild autism.

Could I say that I have ASD, even though my diagnosis is for Asperger's, not ASD?

Yes, because ASD is now an umbrella term that includes Aspergers. It doesn’t work the other way around, though.

 

[pjcnet]

So what happens if you were diagnosed with Asperger's under the DSM IV, does that mean that you can't use use the terrm because it is obsolete, you should use the term ASD instead? Could I say that I have ASD, even though my diagnosis is for Asperger's, not ASD?

@Bolletje has already answered your question very well and when I said that Asperger Syndrome will be virtually unheard of, this won't just happen overnight, it will happen gradually as new generations of autistic people replace older generations, so you can continue referring to yourself as having Asperger Syndrome for the rest of your life if you want to.

 

[Echo]

In poetry class we learned that "The Poet is not the Poem."

A lot of really terrible people have invented, named, and contributed to our lives in integral ways. While some of what they've done may be inexcusable, no one said you had to be a saint to lend your name to a lamp post, a light bulb a theorem, a symphony, or a condition.

At some point, no one will remember where the term originated. Like most creations that live on past their creator, they eventually have a life of their own.

That said, I hadn't been using "Aspie" exclusively, knowing that the term was falling out of favor, anyway, so I don't think we need to rush to come up with new descriptors.

 

[WereBear]

"a tendency to view life in terms of one's own needs and desires"

Oh, like NTs don't. This is making me HULK OUT.

I agree with @Streetwise that "neurodiverse" is a much better description.

Yes, it's a good word and even if I have to explain it, that's a start, too.

 

[SteveH]

I am for dropping that name--specially after this new information. It is what it is.

point 1
Just remember, he did not invent "Asperger's". We existed long before Asperger came along. He was not even the only guy at the time to be discovering AS--Leo Kanner was in the USA and made similar discoveries in the same era.

point 2
And Asperger lied after the war. He painted himself as one of the good-guys--one of the "resisters". Many people who actually were resisters and risked their own lives to save people's lives took the high road and just did not toot their own horn--and we only found about their heroism after they died. He rose to the highest Nazi rank possible--and still no evidence that he resisted anything. Possibly a very good psychiatrist and 100% deserves to be included in the history of AS--but certainly at this point not worthy of naming a AS after him.

point 3
He sent at least 2 dozen children(could have been me or more likely the young man in Point 4) to be experimented on, tortured, and then killed. A man with his rank could have actually left at almost any time. He actually had choices. He chose to stay. He gave those 2 dozen children no choice.

point 4
Most importantly, regardless of Asperger, I choose to self-identify with Autism. I am an ER nurse and a weeks after my own discovery, a family had to bring in their low functioning mute son in for self-injurious behavior. He freaked out the entire ER staff--which is rare. They had him tied to the bed in 4-point leather restraints to prevent him from injuring himself. He could not move and was forced to stare at the horrific florescent light. And his room was next to a loud horrible automatic opening door that hammered into his wall(always freaked me out). He was not my patient but I managed to get him out of the restraints, into another room with low light, a closed door to stop all the horrific beeping of the cardiac monitors(that make my own head want to explode), and a nice warm blanket. He started rocking and almost immediately became more relaxed and calm. Every time I walked by his room, I smiled and waved(yes I am a waver) to him and every time he responded by opening and closing his fist 3 times(later I realized that I was waving back-and-fourth 3 times). His family did not notice it at first and told me that they never noticed him doing that before. Looking back, he did so much more for me than I did for him. I had just discovered my own AS and my world was recently shattered. At that moment, I felt closer to him than anyone else in that ER. It was almost as if he was saying thank you and welcome to my tribe. So, I choose to be in his tribe--and it is an honor to be in his tribe.

FYI
the Gaurdian has a great article on the new discoveries of Asperger.

As usual so many great points. Wow actual thoughtful people on an internet discussion!! ; ) I agree that this should not change a thing about who we are and what AS is --or any of Asperger's actual contributions to our understanding of AS. And in these times, you can never underestimate how stupid people will react to anything.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Every time I walked by his room, I smiled and waved(yes I am a waver) to him and every time he responded by opening and closing his fist 3 times(later I realized that I was waving back-and-fourth 3 times)

How brilliant.

 

[Streetwise]

I am for dropping that name--specially after this new information. It is what it is.

point 1
Just remember, he did not invent "Asperger's". We existed long before Asperger came along. He was not even the only guy at the time to be discovering AS--Leo Kanner was in the USA and made similar discoveries in the same era.

point 2
And Asperger lied after the war. He painted himself as one of the good-guys--one of the "resisters". Many people who actually were resisters and risked their own lives to save people's lives took the high road and just did not toot their own horn--and we only found about their heroism after they died. He rose to the highest Nazi rank possible--and still no evidence that he resisted anything. Possibly a very good psychiatrist and 100% deserves to be included in the history of AS--but certainly at this point not worthy of naming a AS after him.

point 3
He sent at least 2 dozen children(could have been me or more likely the young man in Point 4) to be experimented on, tortured, and then killed. A man with his rank could have actually left at almost any time. He actually had choices. He chose to stay. He gave those 2 dozen children no choice.

point 4
Most importantly, regardless of Asperger, I choose to self-identify with Autism. I am an ER nurse and a weeks after my own discovery, a family had to bring in their low functioning mute son in for self-injurious behavior. He freaked out the entire ER staff--which is rare. They had him tied to the bed in 4-point leather restraints to prevent him from injuring himself. He could not move and was forced to stare at the horrific florescent light. And his room was next to a loud horrible automatic opening door that hammered into his wall(always freaked me out). He was not my patient but I managed to get him out of the restraints, into another room with low light, a closed door to stop all the horrific beeping of the cardiac monitors(that make my own head want to explode), and a nice warm blanket. He started rocking and almost immediately became more relaxed and calm. Every time I walked by his room, I smiled and waved(yes I am a waver) to him and every time he responded by opening and closing his fist 3 times(later I realized that I was waving back-and-fourth 3 times). His family did not notice it at first and told me that they never noticed him doing that before. Looking back, he did so much more for me than I did for him. I had just discovered my own AS and my world was recently shattered. At that moment, I felt closer to him than anyone else in that ER. It was almost as if he was saying thank you and welcome to my tribe. So, I choose to be in his tribe--and it is an honor to be in his tribe.

FYI
the Gaurdian has a great article on the new discoveries of Asperger.

As usual so many great points. Wow actual thoughtful people on an internet discussion!! ; ) I agree that this should not change a thing about who we are and what AS is --or any of Asperger's actual contributions to our understanding of AS. And in these times, you can never underestimate how stupid people will react to anything.

now hopefully he won't be scarred psychologically for Life by the idea of a hospital! and yet again Neuro typical staff in hospitals are only concerned about physical injury! not about psychological well-being ! not actually observing the patient just reacting !

 

[Mary Anne]

I couldn't bring myself to read Neurotribes, and I can't bring myself to read that article. All I can say is: I always hoped he tried to save as many as he could, but my hopes weren't all that high.

People who joined the Nazi party for other reasons than agreeing with the ideology were still nazis, weren't they.

If you did not join, you were sent to the camps. A lot of Germans were forced to go along with the program just to survive. It’s easy for us to judge in 2018, but I am sure their delicious caused them great pain the rest of their lives.