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Getting along better with the opposite sex.

I can only contribute my perspective: In my experience as a male, as a general rule when I was growing up I always got along more naturally with females one on one as it was much easier to cut through the crap and have a genuine relationship. This was established as early as I started making friends. I had guy friends, but the vast majority of the time they were all disgusting, idiotic twats and I couldn't stand 99% of them, yet I mirrored their behavior when around them so as not to be completely cast off (I wasn't really aware I was doing this until a female friend told me I was a completely different person around the guys).

I never identified with macho BS, and it starts remarkably young. Once I got into my teen years, I went home school, isolated myself, and cut out the male mirroring. At that point most of my friendships were online with a fairly equal balance, but the ones with females were undoubtedly more satisfying and natural. Male posturing makes me want to puke. Its childish and stupid.

With that said, in adulthood its much more complicated. My closest female friend had to cut our friendship off a few years back because her partner is jealous (even though we live 3000 miles apart). And that's the crux as you mature. Those kinds of friendships become much more difficult to maintain.

My two remaining best friends happen to be male... but they're also both on the spectrum, so that changes the dynamic. Male NT's... I have almost nothing in common with most of them other than the occasional interests. But even then, world outlook and attitude is usually incompatible with a few exceptions.

I have a very genuine and sensitive side to me that melds better with females, yet that's not to be confused with any gender fluidity in my case. I'm quite masculine, just in an unusual way. I feel my truest self when in friendship with females.
 
Fino said:
If I were straight, I'd be a virgin forever.
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I am and I nearly was. Luckily for me I was very good looking when younger (the years have not been kind to me, but I no longer care) and there were occasional females who ran out of patience and made things obvious for me.

I definitely have mostly gotten along better with women most of the time throught my life. This led to me bieng suspect of hitting on other's girlfriends, or being gay. I've gotten used to it and find it funny these days. If only they knew....
 
NT passing through. (Apologies for length).

Until the age of eleven, I was only friends with the same sex. This was because my friends threatened to leave me if I became friends with a boy, and I didn't want that so I kept strictly to that friendship group. Well, I call it that, but it was a bit more complicated than friendship. There was this girl with an overly involved mother who basically forced us to be friends with her daughter. I didn't get on with her daughter, but we had to hang out otherwise there would be consequences. Her daughter was a bit of bully, and had the power to make your life miserable if you stepped out of line. My best friend at the time was actually friends with her (until she realised her true nature), so we all hung out along with other friends of that girl.

However, I never really felt emotionally close to any of them. It felt like an obligation more than anything. The days where I got to play by myself were the best. I was emotionally numb a lot of the time, due to some rather horrible things happening in my childhood. Often felt like I was just going through the motions.

Anyway, when I was eleven that all changed. I started Secondary school, and became friends with a boy. Predictably, it didn't take long for people to start talking. There was a lot of pressure put on us to become an item. He was the first friend that I actually felt close to. I don't think it was a gender thing, I was just coming out of dark time in my life and starting to feel happy again. Finally I had a friend with shared interests, and no one was forcing us to be friends. Conversations finally started to feel real again. No longer an obligation, but actually enjoyable for once.

So, we actually did end up dating. Kind of. Not really. It was complicated. (Then again, what isn't with me? :rolleyes: :p) We didn't like each other that way, but thought that perhaps the feelings would develop. They didn't. It's actually kind of funny how wrong we were. What actually ended up happening, was that I slowly started to realise that I'm gay. Simultaneously, he was also beginning to realise the same thing about himself! I didn't know that at the time though. Neither of us knew that the other was going through similar realisations.

Then one day, I came out to him. At first he came out as being unsure if he was bi or gay, but later came out to me as gay.

"Ah. Well, this explains a lot" I replied. :D We both had a good laugh.

Then we became good friends. But we were both closeted. So, we kept up the pretence of this *cough* relationship and told everyone that it was a mutual breakup. We didn't want to seem too close though, since we were supposedly exes after all. So we pretended to not get along, but in private we were friends. However, as the lies started to become more complex, our stories started to form holes and not match up.

I was outed to a few people, and the truth about him came out as well. We both lost a few friends. Unfortunately, his supposed friends ended up hurting him physically. I've also been physically attacked for the same reasons. Sadly, it wasn't a nice area. :(

Definitely glad that I'm free of that place. When I moved away, I became friends with both genders. These days I get on with both, but currently have more male friends. Mainly because there tend to be more men in my subject area, and also in one of my extra curricular groups.

He got a happy ending as well, he's now openly gay and happily in a long term relationship. :) I'm single, but happy. Now I have accepting friends, and I'm even in an LGBT group. Sure, it's not all rainbows...I still think about the day I was attacked, but I'm definitely in a better situation now.
 
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I've read, during my research on Autism, that high fuctioning Autistic women have brains that look more like NT men than other women's brains, so maybe it's no wonder that a lot of us spectrumite women feel more comfortable with male company?

And HFA men have "extreme male brains".

I'm the sort of person who loves a logical, well evidenced "argument" (not conflict, I reeeaally don't like conflict) but an intellectual argument/discussion. Love it. I don't really get to talk to smart women with good arguments in my areas of interest, but luckily, I have an (also Aspie) boyfriend to talk to. I reeally don't like manipulative people who use emotion as "reasons" and I find NT women more likely to behave like that, although my ex and the father of my 7 children (5 young men, 2 young women) is very bitchy and manipulative in a more classically female style.

So all in all I'm a stickler for extreme honesty and logical, well evidenced "reasons" in discussion and I find that, in general, is a more (albeit intellectual) male domain. I really do think I have a brain that is more like a dudes, although, paradoxically, I am also a very female female, not in terms of make-up wearing, but I like heaps of typically girly stuff - social science, humanities, clothes, cooking, art, singing, dancing, healing arts, reading novels as well as non fiction, so I'm pretty girly, I just don't feel comfortable with indirect, competitive, driven-by-emotions-but-they-don't-know-why NT females
 
Nauti said:
my 7 children (5 young men, 2 young women)
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full
(You're really giving me a run for my money... [See my profile] ;))
 
Nauti said:
I've read, during my research on Autism, that high fuctioning Autistic women have brains that look more like NT men than other women's brains, so maybe it's no wonder that a lot of us spectrumite women feel more comfortable with male company?

And HFA men have "extreme male brains".

I'm the sort of person who loves a logical, well evidenced "argument" (not conflict, I reeeaally don't like conflict) but an intellectual argument/discussion. Love it. I don't really get to talk to smart women with good arguments in my areas of interest, but luckily, I have an (also Aspie) boyfriend to talk to. I reeally don't like manipulative people who use emotion as "reasons" and I find NT women more likely to behave like that, although my ex and the father of my 7 children (5 young men, 2 young women) is very bitchy and manipulative in a more classically female style.

So all in all I'm a stickler for extreme honesty and logical, well evidenced "reasons" in discussion and I find that, in general, is a more (albeit intellectual) male domain. I really do think I have a brain that is more like a dudes, although, paradoxically, I am also a very female female, not in terms of make-up wearing, but I like heaps of typically girly stuff - social science, humanities, clothes, cooking, art, singing, dancing, healing arts, reading novels as well as non fiction, so I'm pretty girly, I just don't feel comfortable with indirect, competitive, driven-by-emotions-but-they-don't-know-why NT females
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That's interesting. Do you have any recommended reading on the subject? I'm curious.

I think it makes sense on the honesty and factual parts of the brain (anyone know what parts of the brain may be implied here?), though I would think there may be a bit of an inverse effect when you look at it from a libido standpoint, at least from the male perspective. Spectrum males are commonly much less "extreme male" from that standpoint, and usually much more neutral than NT males.

Also, your statement of "I just don't feel comfortable with indirect, competitive, driven-by-emotions-but-they-don't-know-why NT females" made me think, "Yeah, me too. Its why I'm divorcing and not dating." :laughing:
 
JDShredds said:
That's interesting. Do you have any recommended reading on the subject? I'm curious.

I think it makes sense on the honesty and factual parts of the brain (anyone know what parts of the brain may be implied here?), though I would think there may be a bit of an inverse effect when you look at it from a libido standpoint, at least from the male perspective. Spectrum males are commonly much less "extreme male" from that standpoint, and usually much more neutral than NT males.

Also, your statement of "I just don't feel comfortable with indirect, competitive, driven-by-emotions-but-they-don't-know-why NT females" made me think, "Yeah, me too. Its why I'm divorcing and not dating." :laughing:
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I couldn't remember, I read it in numerable sources. I just googled it though and there was lots.
Heres one source
The extreme male brain revisited: gender coherence in adults with autism spectrum disorder | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core
 
JDShredds said:
That's interesting. Do you have any recommended reading on the subject? I'm curious.

I think it makes sense on the honesty and factual parts of the brain (anyone know what parts of the brain may be implied here?), though I would think there may be a bit of an inverse effect when you look at it from a libido standpoint, at least from the male perspective. Spectrum males are commonly much less "extreme male" from that standpoint, and usually much more neutral than NT males.

Also, your statement of "I just don't feel comfortable with indirect, competitive, driven-by-emotions-but-they-don't-know-why NT females" made me think, "Yeah, me too. Its why I'm divorcing and not dating." :laughing:
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So it looks like the "extreme male brain" theory has been debunked. Sorry for that misinformation. The article I linked shows that.
 
Guys generally seem easier to read to me. With (NT) women, there tends to be more hidden messages and assumptions that I'm not aware of, and they don't explicitly tell you. However, that's not necessarily a bad thing if you learn how to read them, but it's hard for me.

I do wish I had more female friends. The one I have now is similar to me in some ways. She's anxious and has a hard time with social situations too, but she is NT. When I do see women my age, I'm more intimidated by them than men my age, because I don't know how to read them as well. Usually, they can tell something's "off" with me, even if I haven't talked to them.

I can talk to them just fine if I have to, but it's hard for me to really "bond" with them. I don't think it's a matter of not having any shared interests, but more of a wall I've put between myself and them. I don't know what their true intentions are. I'm trying to work on being more vulnerable to people, but it's a work in progress.

I have an easier time making friends and letting my guard down with men, because they tend to be more straightforward. If you do something they don't like, they're more likely to let you know about it. That makes me, in turn, feel more comfortable around them. Double points if they're gay, because then there's no possibility of the guy trying to turn the friendship into something more.

The funny thing is, women who are older than me I seem to connect with just fine. They might even act motherly to me, calling me "honey" and stuff. Women who have kids especially seem to be more friendly to me, and I'm guessing it might be because their maternal instinct is calling to them. I remember at the dentist's the dental assistant was really kind to me and she even asked my mom if I was on the spectrum. Turns out she has a son who has Asperger's too, so that's how she could tell so quickly.
 
Nauti said:
The extreme male brain revisited: gender coherence in adults with autism spectrum disorder | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core
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article said:
Women with ASD had higher total and bioactive testosterone levels, less feminine facial features and a larger head circumference than female controls. Men in the ASD group were assessed as having less masculine body characteristics and voice quality, and displayed higher (i.e. less masculine) 2D:4D ratios, but similar testosterone levels to controls.
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That smacks of physiognomy to me.
 
Crossbreed said:
That smacks of physiognomy to me.
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Regardless, the testosterone levels in ASD women was interesting, I thought. I don't have any kind of features that could be considered male looking, but I do have a rather large head, so does my autistic son and father. I don't know if that means anything, its just interesting to note, in a scientific kind of way.
My oldest daughter has an exceptionally small head but is highly intelligent and my autistic son with the big head has an IQ of 70, so clearly intelligence has nothing to do with head size, that I do know.
 
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I'm a hetro male and I've almost always found other men to be arrogant self-serving phony pricks, especially the overconfident. When I was in my teens, my only friends were women. I'm now mid-fifties and I don't get along with either men or women. I've found women to be especially difficult. On one hand, and this is in the workplace, if a male gives women attention, they end up pissed off and consider it coming on to them. On the other hand, not giving them attention pisses them off, too. So, when I read this comment below, I found it very interesting.

"Women are social climbers and grudgers. This is likely an evolutionary thing - not being able to wield the physical power in society, means women are specialised in social power... Women are the way they are because they have to constantly tussle for status."

Actually, I believe women have to constantly tussle for status because of the inconsistent behavior that I described above. Meanwhile, I still think most men are self-serving phony pricks but the consistency in behavior makes men more predictable and easier to work with, in business.

Please don't flame me for my comments. My opinion is simply an HFA take on men and women in society
 
I never could understand why men and women can't be just friends, because that would mean bisexual people can't be friends with anyone. Everybody is their prey! *RAWR*
 
Jessup said:
Some women don't give men the option to get along with them. Political correctness softens a nation.
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Are you implying gender is a part of that? I just want to point out that my "agree" doesn't include that part, if that is what you meant, just the political correctness and excessive moderation.
 
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