This sounds passive aggressive.
But opinionated is the right word as they are concerning opinions.
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- Thread starter BoltzmannBrain17
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But opinionated is the right word as they are concerning opinions.
Exactly. Where I live and in my culture, girls have been encouraged to do this for many years now. Things have changed for women, but I can’t help but worry men have been left to suffer in silence.
I’ve seen guys who aren’t “hot” with girlfriends and women who are considered “hot” that are single.
My issues are that I struggle with natural shyness as well as anxiety, I have low confidence due to being bullied in addition to other stuff, and I am socially as well as culturally isolated. There’s a lot of vicious cycles in my life.
My issues are that I struggle with natural shyness as well as anxiety, I have low confidence due to being bullied in addition to other stuff, and I am socially as well as culturally isolated. There’s a lot of vicious cycles in my life.
My experience:
A lot of thin attractive women in my community have, especially recently, married unconventionally unattractive and/or overweight men. And here in the south, where more people are overweight in general, doesn't seem like a prevalent issue about finding a mate because of weight. So definitely have not seen attractiveness as a factor here.
What I have seen is when a guy OR girl (yes even girls) is having trouble in the dating department, they're often, not always but often, trying to shift the blame to everyone else except themselves and their attitudes. More often than nought, I've noticed that the attitude of that person could use a shift in different ways.
And it's the same for women too:
I recently attended a girlfriend's wedding who is conventionally unattractive and overweight whose husband is the same. She has never had any trouble dating or hooking up. She has a super loud and confident personality. And now is happily married.
Another girlfriend who is sorta borderline attractive could never find a guy remotely interested in her. And that's because her personality tends to be broody, negative, and very insecure about herself. What happened was that she latched onto the first guy who did give her attention (and he was also desperate for a gf too being quiet and awkward) and they each settled for each other and now: not-so-happy marriage. She still insists that it was because of her looks that she would never find anyone else.
A lot of thin attractive women in my community have, especially recently, married unconventionally unattractive and/or overweight men. And here in the south, where more people are overweight in general, doesn't seem like a prevalent issue about finding a mate because of weight. So definitely have not seen attractiveness as a factor here.
What I have seen is when a guy OR girl (yes even girls) is having trouble in the dating department, they're often, not always but often, trying to shift the blame to everyone else except themselves and their attitudes. More often than nought, I've noticed that the attitude of that person could use a shift in different ways.
And it's the same for women too:
I recently attended a girlfriend's wedding who is conventionally unattractive and overweight whose husband is the same. She has never had any trouble dating or hooking up. She has a super loud and confident personality. And now is happily married.
Another girlfriend who is sorta borderline attractive could never find a guy remotely interested in her. And that's because her personality tends to be broody, negative, and very insecure about herself. What happened was that she latched onto the first guy who did give her attention (and he was also desperate for a gf too being quiet and awkward) and they each settled for each other and now: not-so-happy marriage. She still insists that it was because of her looks that she would never find anyone else.
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Ye gods, this is silly.
Okay. *deep inhale*
First: The idea of "well the whole reason I can't find someone because I'm unattractive", even by your own definition, doesn't work. Saw your photo. You look fine. You aren't unattractive. I say this as someone who is attracted to guys (even if I'm aromantic, I can still experience attraction).
I'm gonna be very, very blunt with you here, because... look, my name is Misery, of course I'm gonna be blunt and say the harsh thing.
This idea you're talking about is an excuse. Nothing more. A way to say "hey, this bit here, this easy scapegoat, is the problem. Not this other bigger, harder to deal with problem. If I go with the scapegoat, I don't have to confront the real issue".
Just the fact that you're coming in here thinking that appearance is the entire deciding factor for all of this... while also trying to convince everyone else that their appearance is also a problem... is not good. If you've got that going on, if you're really genuinely believing that sort of thing, if you're considering that to be paramount to what makes attraction happen, if you've just got that kind of attitude and way of thinking overall... it wont matter how physically attractive you are. It wont work. Even if you were to meet someone, if you aren't being kind and caring to that person, if you are only looking at her as some pretty trophy, if you're thinking as bloody shallow as you are with this post... the relationship will not last. Or, it will last but be very toxic, and likely... nobody will be happy.
Also, everyone has wildly different ideas of what is "attractive" in any case. Which applies to both looks AND personality. And some don't care about appearance whatsoever.
Firstly, I did see your instagram post there, since you linked it. You look fine.
I know someone who isn't just obese, but is very, VERY close to morbidly obese (I'll put it this way, you arent even close to his weight... seriously, he's heavy enough that it's very dangerous to his health, always been worried about him). He got a girlfriend about... a year ago, I think it was? They're still together, and doing fine. He's a VERY nice & generally pleasant guy to be around, which is likely what did it.
I know that there's a lot of... how do I put this... depression and lowering of self-image if your weight is higher than you think it should be, it's not exactly uncommon to feel that way, but that doesn't mean that it automatically has an effect on literally everyone who meets you. Even if we're purely talking about appearance here, everyone has different preferences. And some people couldn't give less of a fart how someone looks, with personality and such standing above all in what they look for. Though, that depression and low self-esteem can make it tougher to meet anyone.
I will say though: You're doing WAY better than you were before. Much... much better. You've improved so much... you can improve even further. I cant stress that enough. Keep it up and you may eventually really meet someone! You've come this far, eh? You can go even further.
Okay, with that, I'm done. Cant stick around for further discussing this time, it is time for bed, I've got a lot to do tomorrow. I shall now go snooze.
Okay. *deep inhale*
First: The idea of "well the whole reason I can't find someone because I'm unattractive", even by your own definition, doesn't work. Saw your photo. You look fine. You aren't unattractive. I say this as someone who is attracted to guys (even if I'm aromantic, I can still experience attraction).
I'm gonna be very, very blunt with you here, because... look, my name is Misery, of course I'm gonna be blunt and say the harsh thing.
This idea you're talking about is an excuse. Nothing more. A way to say "hey, this bit here, this easy scapegoat, is the problem. Not this other bigger, harder to deal with problem. If I go with the scapegoat, I don't have to confront the real issue".
Just the fact that you're coming in here thinking that appearance is the entire deciding factor for all of this... while also trying to convince everyone else that their appearance is also a problem... is not good. If you've got that going on, if you're really genuinely believing that sort of thing, if you're considering that to be paramount to what makes attraction happen, if you've just got that kind of attitude and way of thinking overall... it wont matter how physically attractive you are. It wont work. Even if you were to meet someone, if you aren't being kind and caring to that person, if you are only looking at her as some pretty trophy, if you're thinking as bloody shallow as you are with this post... the relationship will not last. Or, it will last but be very toxic, and likely... nobody will be happy.
Also, everyone has wildly different ideas of what is "attractive" in any case. Which applies to both looks AND personality. And some don't care about appearance whatsoever.
Firstly, I did see your instagram post there, since you linked it. You look fine.
I know someone who isn't just obese, but is very, VERY close to morbidly obese (I'll put it this way, you arent even close to his weight... seriously, he's heavy enough that it's very dangerous to his health, always been worried about him). He got a girlfriend about... a year ago, I think it was? They're still together, and doing fine. He's a VERY nice & generally pleasant guy to be around, which is likely what did it.
I know that there's a lot of... how do I put this... depression and lowering of self-image if your weight is higher than you think it should be, it's not exactly uncommon to feel that way, but that doesn't mean that it automatically has an effect on literally everyone who meets you. Even if we're purely talking about appearance here, everyone has different preferences. And some people couldn't give less of a fart how someone looks, with personality and such standing above all in what they look for. Though, that depression and low self-esteem can make it tougher to meet anyone.
I will say though: You're doing WAY better than you were before. Much... much better. You've improved so much... you can improve even further. I cant stress that enough. Keep it up and you may eventually really meet someone! You've come this far, eh? You can go even further.
Okay, with that, I'm done. Cant stick around for further discussing this time, it is time for bed, I've got a lot to do tomorrow. I shall now go snooze.
Jordy
Well-Known Member
There is truth to what he's saying regardless of how he particularly looks like.
Looking trough what is posted in the selfie thread, it's just people who look like regular people for the most part.
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Jordy
Well-Known Member
It's not.
Okay. We cool?
I totally disagree with you. As a female personality means more to me than looks. Looks fade. And a person can grow on you and you can be totally attracted to them. I think the problem is you need to be self-confident in who you are on the inside. If somebody doesn't like you for who you are then it's their loss. Remember that!!
I totally agree with you. I have not been physically attracted to someone at first but when I got to know them the attraction grew.
I cant believe this thread got so many responses. I'd suggest that the OPs problems are caused by their own poor attitude. I covered that quite well in this thread:
One thing I realise when I look back on my youth was how many of the opposite sex/gender flirted with me and I was absolutely oblivious to it. It's like I was missing the piece of neurology that allowed me to recognise it.
Pair that with a personality type that is, while enthusiastic (particularly on a forum like this), but very introverted and you end up with very few partners/dates.
Having some traits that, no matter how I tried to "butch it up", I didn't come across as very manly, but recognising that I'm non-binary made me feel less negatively about it. "Sensitive" was the word most used to describe me. The problem with this is that it means different things to different people.
Telling one person "Oh Mildred is so sensitive" can mean anything from "kind natured and a good listener", to "an emotional basket case who is in constant distress". I'm pretty sure a lot of people expected me to be the latter, based on their interpretation of the word.
But, yeah, the bottom line is, I can see lots of missed opportunities in the past. If I had not been blind to them, I would have felt less negative about the rejections. After it happened a few times, it just became a paralysing fear. (I do think that this could be wrapped up in the likelihood I'm on the spectrum. I'm working up the courage to get assessed, there's just a couple of things I need to make sure of in order to make sure it's done without any prejudice)
One time in particular I can remember, unusually for me I was on a night out and after a couple of drinks I spotted this beautiful young woman. By total coincidence, her group of friends asked if they could sit at the opposite end of our table. My friend who I'd told that I thought this girl was cute tried to push me to chat her up. Her friends enthusiastically introduced me and also pointed out that she looked like a very popular "pin-up" celebrity. She really did too!
She seemed interested, smiled at me and moved to sit opposite me. I totally froze, I got that "locked up mouth thing" I've talked about here recently. I was totally mute. She kept smiling at me, but after a while she started to look a bit confused, which only served to make me more nervous. She looked more and more disappointed. At the time I thought she'd gotten a close look at me and changed her mind, but all these years later I realise, she was disappointed that I didn't talk to her. I feel like a total idiot still.
There's quite a few examples of this when I look back.
What I'm trying to say is, sometimes due to our experiences, or fears, or lack of confidence, we fail to see what's right in front of us. Sometimes the things we fail to see are the opportunities we have because we have low self esteem.
Self esteem can be difficult when we've faced a lot of rejection in our lives. Finding ways of building up self esteem can open doors you never knew were there.
But tying yourself esteem to how successful you are on the dating scene is only going to lead to a negative feedback loop.
Immersing yourself in your hobbies and interests and finding opportunities to connect with others through them, will create opportunities to meet people on common ground, and friendships and relationships can grow from there.
Don't make the priority getting a date. Make the priority meeting people you share in fun activities with.
Look for local groups that share your interests and who meet up regularly. If you enjoy making things then join a Hacker Space. If you love painting, join an art course. It may be challenging to talk to people but take it a step at a time. You'd be amazed at how many other people are there for the same reasons you are.
It's like playing a game of reverse psychology on yourself. But it really can work!
Pair that with a personality type that is, while enthusiastic (particularly on a forum like this), but very introverted and you end up with very few partners/dates.
Having some traits that, no matter how I tried to "butch it up", I didn't come across as very manly, but recognising that I'm non-binary made me feel less negatively about it. "Sensitive" was the word most used to describe me. The problem with this is that it means different things to different people.
Telling one person "Oh Mildred is so sensitive" can mean anything from "kind natured and a good listener", to "an emotional basket case who is in constant distress". I'm pretty sure a lot of people expected me to be the latter, based on their interpretation of the word.
But, yeah, the bottom line is, I can see lots of missed opportunities in the past. If I had not been blind to them, I would have felt less negative about the rejections. After it happened a few times, it just became a paralysing fear. (I do think that this could be wrapped up in the likelihood I'm on the spectrum. I'm working up the courage to get assessed, there's just a couple of things I need to make sure of in order to make sure it's done without any prejudice)
One time in particular I can remember, unusually for me I was on a night out and after a couple of drinks I spotted this beautiful young woman. By total coincidence, her group of friends asked if they could sit at the opposite end of our table. My friend who I'd told that I thought this girl was cute tried to push me to chat her up. Her friends enthusiastically introduced me and also pointed out that she looked like a very popular "pin-up" celebrity. She really did too!
She seemed interested, smiled at me and moved to sit opposite me. I totally froze, I got that "locked up mouth thing" I've talked about here recently. I was totally mute. She kept smiling at me, but after a while she started to look a bit confused, which only served to make me more nervous. She looked more and more disappointed. At the time I thought she'd gotten a close look at me and changed her mind, but all these years later I realise, she was disappointed that I didn't talk to her. I feel like a total idiot still.
There's quite a few examples of this when I look back.
What I'm trying to say is, sometimes due to our experiences, or fears, or lack of confidence, we fail to see what's right in front of us. Sometimes the things we fail to see are the opportunities we have because we have low self esteem.
Self esteem can be difficult when we've faced a lot of rejection in our lives. Finding ways of building up self esteem can open doors you never knew were there.
But tying yourself esteem to how successful you are on the dating scene is only going to lead to a negative feedback loop.
Immersing yourself in your hobbies and interests and finding opportunities to connect with others through them, will create opportunities to meet people on common ground, and friendships and relationships can grow from there.
Don't make the priority getting a date. Make the priority meeting people you share in fun activities with.
Look for local groups that share your interests and who meet up regularly. If you enjoy making things then join a Hacker Space. If you love painting, join an art course. It may be challenging to talk to people but take it a step at a time. You'd be amazed at how many other people are there for the same reasons you are.
It's like playing a game of reverse psychology on yourself. But it really can work!
Not surprised you'd say that (if I may be so bold). But OP didn't write "I'm not attractive, I'll never date anyone"; he wrote "Guys, if you're not hot, it's all over for you" - not right, not true
I think this should be PG13 enough to post here. Have a listen to this, and laugh at it, and enjoy it. Once you're in a relationship, you get less opportunities to go fishing So enjoy fishing until then
So enjoy fishing until then 
This sounds like incel propaganda to me. Just as I did not date women because of looks, when women got to know me they liked what they saw as long as I was presentable and showed my enjoyment at being with them. Most were incompatible because they did not enjoy outdoor activities. I was seeking a woman who was adventurous and eventually I met one who desired a man she could do outdoor activities with. We have done wilderness backpacking and goat-packing, dove together off of Borneo and Sulawesi, including night dives and cavern diving. Enjoyed whitewater canoeing on such as the Green, Salmon and Arkansas rivers, and just had a splendid time together.
My thought is that potential, enthusiasm, and acceptance counts for more than physical appearance. As a high value man in several dimensions, including economically, I would not have the time of day for the type of woman craving validation through physical appearance alone.
My thought is that potential, enthusiasm, and acceptance counts for more than physical appearance. As a high value man in several dimensions, including economically, I would not have the time of day for the type of woman craving validation through physical appearance alone.
SO RIGHT! And worse for us expecting rejection. When I met my future spouse all I had to offer was a ride down to a Sierra Club trail maintenance trip in the Great Smoky Mountains. Little did I know that she was seeking a man she could enjoy outdoor activities with. The red string of fate.
My observation is young men who spent their teenage years in isolation tend to have based their idea of an attractive woman on the actresses they saw on the screen, who naturally were more attractive than the average woman.
People are naturally drawn to people who are like them, so if you just think you're ugly as a gargoyle but otherwise don't have a problem connecting with other people (in which case congrats! what's your secret?), you need to unlearn what 17-year-old you decided was attractive and start to approach people like a grown-up.
People are naturally drawn to people who are like them, so if you just think you're ugly as a gargoyle but otherwise don't have a problem connecting with other people (in which case congrats! what's your secret?), you need to unlearn what 17-year-old you decided was attractive and start to approach people like a grown-up.
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