Feeling trapped

[Milie]

Hi...first post here.

I have reasonable doubts to think that my partner of 6 years is on the spectrum but I’ve never mentioned this to him and never got a diagnosis. We’ve been struggling for almost as long as we have been in the relationship on matters of emotional intimacy except for the first 3 months (he was struggling but I couldn’t tell) and he shows many signs of Aspergers. Ever since we started dating, he’s changed a lot (for the better) but I always feel like something is missing. At first I thought he was shy, then figured he was very introvert but I figured an introvert would be able to provide meaningful deep conversations with emotions in it so I thought giving him time would help open up. He did open up but not nearly as I thought he would have.

I’ve had messy relationships and have abandonment issues myself that I think are in control now but his lack of deep emotion (he often goofs around instead of trying to come across as truly loving), his lack of validation and interest are making me feel like a little shriveled lifeless thing. We’ve been to couple counselling and it helped a bit but not so much. We also both went to individual therapy after which helped more. While I was seeing my own therapist, he himself pointed out that some of the behaviors I mentioned sounded like Aspergers.

I can’t shake the feeling that I don’t feel loved. I know he loves me, in fact I think he seems very safe for me, I have the feeling he would never ever leave me. But I also feel like I am starving emotionally. I am somewhat of an introvert but most people wouldn’t be able to tell, I like to laugh a lot and I’m sociable. Whenever I meet other people who I connect with, it just makes the gap so much more apparent and this is when I completely lose it. We are also at the point where we should be having children and this is making me extremely anxious. I worry about passing on the genetics; I feel like our relationship is taking its toll on me and that raising kids with special needs would just probably send me straight into a depression. As a child, I’ve not been as nurtured as I probably should have been and I also have a huge problem envisioning putting my own children through this.

I do love him, he’s gentle and caring most of the time, he has good values, he’s making a good living and he’s good at what he does. I feel so alone though. We have been neglecting each other, he’s very caught up in his work and I’m withdrawing by getting involved in more things than I have time for. I know we should be communicating more but every time I try and it doesn’t work, I feel extremely wounded and trapped. It often gets better for a few days and then goes back to normal; a pretty boring life where we hardly see any friends, speak of his work most of the time and just end up both at our own computers. Sometimes I think maybe I should leave even if it’s very scary but I am also afraid I would be destroying him. Other times I think I'm strong and that I can work through this but whenever the well runs dry, I start panicking.

Even if he had some quirks when we started dating, he did show interest in me and could look at me with what I felt was loving, longing eyes and a big smile. I don’t seem to ever get this anymore and I miss it so so much. I don't know what to do anymore :-( I really have problems telling apart what is my part in this and what is his. Can anyone with abandonment issues have a successful relationship with someone on the spectrum?

 

[Ereth]

Can anyone with abandonment issues have a successful relationship with someone on the spectrum?

I don't see why not. But I think couples' counseling with someone familiar with Asperger's might be something to consider.

Welcome to AspiesCentral!

 

[Ylva]

If it "gets better for a few days, then goes back to normal", it might indicate that he gets overwhelmed in those few days and realises he needs things to go back to normal. I get this every time I try to implement too many changes at once.

 

[Cali Cat]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Basically, it doesn't sound like you're going through anything different than an NT couple after the romance has worn off the relationship. Six years is a long time to be with the same person, and a lot of the romance ebbs. The "loving, longing eyes and a big smile" usually only last a couple of years (at least that was my experience with my husband of 20+ years). However, Aspies do have lots on their minds, and romance isn't a high priority for many. The goofing around you spoke of is something I do when I'm in a position where I know I'm suppose to show loving feelings, but I'm not in the mood. If you feel your partner doesn't love you, you may ask whether he is showing his love in ways that you are not "appreciating." If he isn't showing his love at all, then that's a problem, but it may be that he simply isn't loving you the way you want to be loved. In which case, intensive communication is in order to discover whether he is willing to meet you half way. It sounds like he's got some good qualities that are worth the effort, but I'd definitely hold off on bringing children into the mix until you two have come to a comfortable compromise in your relationship.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Basically, it doesn't sound like you're going through anything different than an NT couple after the romance has worn off the relationship. Six years is a long time to be with the same person, and a lot of the romance ebbs. The "loving, longing eyes and a big smile" usually only last a couple of years (at least that was my experience with my husband of 20+ years). However, Aspies do have lots on their minds, and romance isn't a high priority for many. The goofing around you spoke of is something I do when I'm in a position where I know I'm suppose to show loving feelings, but I'm not in the mood. If you feel your partner doesn't love you, you may ask whether he is showing his love in ways that you are not "appreciating." If he isn't showing his love at all, then that's a problem, but it may be that he simply isn't loving you the way you want to be loved. In which case, intensive communication is in order to discover whether he is willing to meet you half way. It sounds like he's got some good qualities that are worth the effort, but I'd definitely hold off on bringing children into the mix until you two have come to a comfortable compromise in your relationship.

I think it's more than just being married for six years. She mentioned that they've been having "issues" the whole time except the first three months. From the books I've read, it's difficult for NT women to get their emotional needs met by an Aspie spouse and its best for them to fulfill this need through other NT friends.

It sounds like he's being loyal (like Aspies are) and to me it sounds like he's in his comfort zone now and is acting like any Aspie would normally- no eye contact, not wanting to be social, not talking much, lots of computer time. He may need to be told what you need (according to the books I've read) and one Aspie here said that with some actions an Aspie may never be able to do some things that we as NTs might expect a person to learn. If he is indeed an Aspie, he speaks a whole different language than an NT does.

I'm with Cali Cat - children should be on the back burner for right now until you feel comfortable with your situation. I do recommend reading some posts and some books to educate yourself on AS and maybe ask your husband to read some things to see if he sees any parallels. I also highly recommend the movie "Adam".

 

[Milie]

To give a more context, he completely swept me off my feet the first months we were dating, he was so romantic (but not verbally) that I even told him that he didn't have to do all this at some point (he'd almost put himself in danger to open the car door for me!). There were signs, like he sounded completely aloof on the phone, I preferred chatting because phone left me confused. After the initial romance phase, there are times where he messed up and I got angry (like being 40 minutes late when he was supposed to pick me up). He became very shut down and eventually dumped me out of the blue with no explanation. I was completely crushed, I couldn't see what I had done wrong. He ended up writing and just asking for a break which I gave him. I almost ended up cutting things off because I couldn't stand that he wouldn't tell me what was wrong, I couldn't think straight anymore. After break, ke explained to me the reasons why he dumped me but it was very vague and I thought he had just pretty much gotten cold feet so we came back together and I hoped for the best and made sure to pay attention so that he tells me how he feels more often. I have to say, while we were on break I lost so much weight that I almost ended up in hospital and I don't recall him noticing or asking me how I felt or if I was ok.

I'd say the first 2 years were still very nice even if it was a problem to get him to open up. I did put a lot of my needs aside in order to succeed. I felt like he had something special, that if I could make this work he could be so loyal. We did a lot of new activities together and it kept things alive and sweet, he paid me a lot of small attentions which made me feel good. I felt lost when I asked him questions because he always took a really long time to reply, like he hadn't heard me sometimes. Fights were always bad, whenever he wouldn't get his way I would get the silent treatment. I dreaded asking him to pick me up because sometimes he simply lost track of time and got there really late and once even completely forgot about me.

After I moved in with him, it started going really badly. He would not pick up after himself anymore, would stay on the computer all night, nevermind the fact that he woke me up when going to bed and I would be completely sleep deprived at work. I begged and cried and he kept doing it and that's when I started doubting his empathy. But then again he was very very kind to strangers so there was this huge gap that I felt I didn't know who he really was. Things got a bit better when we got a house, I starting putting my foot down more and we did end up seeking counseling. While in counseling, the initial breakup came back to the surface and he said things like he thought he sabotaged the relationship and also that he was being someone he wasn't (showering me with attentions) and he knew it wouldn't work. He seems to take things a lot less personal than he used to and he's also a lot less passive-agressive and better at dealing with my feelings. We don't really fight much anymore actually and when we do it's a lot healthier, he's come a long long way and it's been a lot of work.

He's still not the type to validate me or to share spontaneous joy. If we're arguing and we lie down to talk things through, he can fall asleep right in the middle of the conversation.

Things that make me believe he might have aspergers: sometimes if I don't understand something very detailed in one of his hobbies and that I'm tired, he will keep trying to explain it to me even if I'm clearly saying that I'd prefer to wait another day, he may goof around and invade my personal space but not be able to take the clue when I tell him to stop. He just keeps going and this has caused fights before.

It always seems like something is missing, something that I can have with other people (that I obviously don't see all the time, which probably helps) but I do have problems wondering what could be just Asperger, introversion, the normal course of a 6 year relationship or just him possibly being avoidant in his attachment style and me having more of an anxious pattern or just me having unmet emotional needs or a mix of these things. There's hardly any sex anymore. I'm always wondering how right it is to complete your relationship with people outside of it even if it's not sexual. Mainly, I think it feels so deeply wrong to me to connect more with other people than my boyfriend. It drives me crazy when I see people and sometimes even older couple making nice eye contact. I feel like I will never be able to have this depth of connection.

Just to make up for all the negative stuff I wrote above because I think it paints a very poor picture of him...he never drinks and drive, when we have people over he can often take care of the whole meal, he's very patient with kids and plays with them a lot, two years ago I switched to a whole plant diet for health reasons and he never complained even if we used to eat a lot of meat, he can be very thoughtful when he takes the time to write a card and write deep things (although I can't really remember last time I got one). I often wonder how he can write so nicely when hardly anything shows on his face.

Sorry this is so long! Can anyone relate?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

he can be very thoughtful when he takes the time to write a card and write deep things (although I can't really remember last time I got one). I often wonder how he can write so nicely when hardly anything shows on his face.

My Aspie friend can email and text a lot, but he said if we talked in person he would end up not saying much of anything. He also said that his facial expressions never match what he's feeling.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I can a bit. One side of my family talks constantly, the other could take five minutes between replies if they're in the mood to talk at all. I learned to be patient with the slower side and I set an internal time limit for a reminder in case they simply didn't hear me or to get a verification they're thinking it over.

Since you live together, I guess you could try lying in wait around the shower and then pounce on him when he's naked. Some guys like spontaneous intimacy, especially guys that don't like it initiate it themselves.

 

[bentHnau]

I have been reading a number of Aspie/NT relationship issues for a while now and I think I understand the apparent "coldness" problem now, but hesitant to post this. My post got really long, so here is the summarized version:

• I don't need to discuss my emotions with others and don't understand how that helps other people, so I can't do it.

• Emotions are too subjective and insubstantial to discuss at length.

• Negative emotions are merely a symptom; it makes more sense to fix the core problem rather than focusing on them.

• The continuing existence of the relationship is the validation for the relationship, so what more is needed in terms of validation?

If your partner thinks like me, then I guess I relate and hopefully my explaining it helps you. My suggestion is this: start a date night,maybe once per week to start with, during which your partner is to focus only on you. The schedule, the routine, will make it real to him. Conversations during this time would be great, but I'm thinking that lengthy exchanges about emotions are not a realistic expectation. You must decide exactly what you feel and precisely which behaviors you require from him to help you with those feelings, then lay out exactly what you want him to do and make sure to reach a concrete agreement on it. Write it out, even.


I view emotional management as being the responsibility of the adult who has the emotions.
Intellectually, I can grasp how it might be helpful to talk about them sometimes, but I don't have much of that need myself, and so I don't truly understand how talking to other people about emotions helps anyone, and therefore wouldn't know how to help anyone that way. When people tell me about emotional problems, I tend to have no idea what to do with that information. I might be able to help solve the problem that caused the feelings, but I don't have the power to manipulate others' feelings, so why involve me in them? (Yet it seems NTs have magical incantations that affect other NTs feelings.) In my mind, it doesn't have much of anything to do with me except by affecting whether or not and how they will interact with me while they feel that way. I don't know if that is an Asperger's thing, but that is what I am being reminded of when I read this sort of relationship issue.

As for generally having conversations about emotions...why? I don't understand the purpose of that. They are subjective and therefore difficult to describe and therefore, theoretically, difficult for the other person to understand. As someone who values making sense of things, I wouldn't understand what anyone could gain from such a muddy subject. I have heard people say that "merely talking about them," helps, but I don't know how that works, and what would I do in the meantime? Just sit and listen? And just how much could a person say about her emotions, anyhow? "I'm angry." "I'm joyous!" There doesn't seem to be enough available material to sustain a conversation.

I have a lot of trouble understanding people who need validation from other people. My validation as a person comes totally from within. In the context of a relationship, if the other person behaves as if she likes me, I assume that she likes me, and I make sure that she knows to openly voice complaints if she has any, which obviates the need for any other kind of validation vis-a-vis the relationship. Merely being in a relationship together is the validation, because she'd leave if the relationship weren't valuable to her. That's simplistic when compared to how some people approach relationships, but that's how I tend to view them.

If I had to categorize all of these perspectives, I would say that it's a matter of being very self-contained. The emotions stay inside instead of being co-managed by the partners. I don't really need a partner to do anything for me to be content with the relationship; I take her as she is and decide whether or not I want to be/stay with her. I mean that I wouldn't view the lack of conversational time, for example, as something she is not giving me (unless she is clearly avoiding necessary discussions), I would view it as a part of her personality and decide whether or not I am attracted to that or attracted to her despite that characteristic. I see most of the decisions and actions pertaining to my satisfaction in the relationship as my responsibility. And what I seem to see with some NTs is that they want to melt into each other and change each other and negotiate with each other and make demands on each other that are outside of the other person's character or comfort zone. And I'm more like work around it, do without it, or end it rather than bending the other person when possible. And that feeds back into the self-containment thing, because I need so little from people and would have gone to such lengths to ensure compatibility in the first place that I don't have a lot of bending and changing to ask for anyways.

So I'm thinking that maybe this person thinks like me in at least some of these ways, and therefore does not understand your need for more emotional sharing and validation. I can't say anything about the other issues.

 

[Plumeria]

I have been reading a number of Aspie/NT relationship issues for a while now and I think I understand the apparent "coldness" problem now, but hesitant to post this. My post got really long, so here is the summarized version:

• I don't need to discuss my emotions with others and don't understand how that helps other people, so I can't do it.

• Emotions are too subjective and insubstantial to discuss at length.

• Negative emotions are merely a symptom; it makes more sense to fix the core problem rather than focusing on them.

• The continuing existence of the relationship is the validation for the relationship, so what more is needed in terms of validation?

If your partner thinks like me, then I guess I relate and hopefully my explaining it helps you. My suggestion is this: start a date night,maybe once per week to start with, during which your partner is to focus only on you. The schedule, the routine, will make it real to him. Conversations during this time would be great, but I'm thinking that lengthy exchanges about emotions are not a realistic expectation. You must decide exactly what you feel and precisely which behaviors you require from him to help you with those feelings, then lay out exactly what you want him to do and make sure to reach a concrete agreement on it. Write it out, even.


I view emotional management as being the responsibility of the adult who has the emotions.
Intellectually, I can grasp how it might be helpful to talk about them sometimes, but I don't have much of that need myself, and so I don't truly understand how talking to other people about emotions helps anyone, and therefore wouldn't know how to help anyone that way. When people tell me about emotional problems, I tend to have no idea what to do with that information. I might be able to help solve the problem that caused the feelings, but I don't have the power to manipulate others' feelings, so why involve me in them? (Yet it seems NTs have magical incantations that affect other NTs feelings.) In my mind, it doesn't have much of anything to do with me except by affecting whether or not and how they will interact with me while they feel that way. I don't know if that is an Asperger's thing, but that is what I am being reminded of when I read this sort of relationship issue.

As for generally having conversations about emotions...why? I don't understand the purpose of that. They are subjective and therefore difficult to describe and therefore, theoretically, difficult for the other person to understand. As someone who values making sense of things, I wouldn't understand what anyone could gain from such a muddy subject. I have heard people say that "merely talking about them," helps, but I don't know how that works, and what would I do in the meantime? Just sit and listen? And just how much could a person say about her emotions, anyhow? "I'm angry." "I'm joyous!" There doesn't seem to be enough available material to sustain a conversation.

I have a lot of trouble understanding people who need validation from other people. My validation as a person comes totally from within. In the context of a relationship, if the other person behaves as if she likes me, I assume that she likes me, and I make sure that she knows to openly voice complaints if she has any, which obviates the need for any other kind of validation vis-a-vis the relationship. Merely being in a relationship together is the validation, because she'd leave if the relationship weren't valuable to her. That's simplistic when compared to how some people approach relationships, but that's how I tend to view them.

If I had to categorize all of these perspectives, I would say that it's a matter of being very self-contained. The emotions stay inside instead of being co-managed by the partners. I don't really need a partner to do anything for me to be content with the relationship; I take her as she is and decide whether or not I want to be/stay with her. I mean that I wouldn't view the lack of conversational time, for example, as something she is not giving me (unless she is clearly avoiding necessary discussions), I would view it as a part of her personality and decide whether or not I am attracted to that or attracted to her despite that characteristic. I see most of the decisions and actions pertaining to my satisfaction in the relationship as my responsibility. And what I seem to see with some NTs is that they want to melt into each other and change each other and negotiate with each other and make demands on each other that are outside of the other person's character or comfort zone. And I'm more like work around it, do without it, or end it rather than bending the other person when possible. And that feeds back into the self-containment thing, because I need so little from people and would have gone to such lengths to ensure compatibility in the first place that I don't have a lot of bending and changing to ask for anyways.

So I'm thinking that maybe this person thinks like me in at least some of these ways, and therefore does not understand your need for more emotional sharing and validation. I can't say anything about the other issues.

Your observations about NT relationships are, IMO, correct. Why do we (NTs) need validation, have the need to talk about emotions and want to "change each other"? I believe I know the answer but it is a very complex subject that includes each persons fears, insecurities and needs. For the past few years I've worked on understanding myself and my feelings and with greater awareness, I have been able to change a lot of my reactions and perceptions of people and situations for the better.

Thank you for sharing, your post was very insightful and I will definitely keep it in mind when communicating with Aspies.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I have been reading a number of Aspie/NT relationship issues for a while now and I think I understand the apparent "coldness" problem now, but hesitant to post this. My post got really long, so here is the summarized version:

• I don't need to discuss my emotions with others and don't understand how that helps other people, so I can't do it.

• Emotions are too subjective and insubstantial to discuss at length.

• Negative emotions are merely a symptom; it makes more sense to fix the core problem rather than focusing on them.

• The continuing existence of the relationship is the validation for the relationship, so what more is needed in terms of validation?

If your partner thinks like me, then I guess I relate and hopefully my explaining it helps you. My suggestion is this: start a date night,maybe once per week to start with, during which your partner is to focus only on you. The schedule, the routine, will make it real to him. Conversations during this time would be great, but I'm thinking that lengthy exchanges about emotions are not a realistic expectation. You must decide exactly what you feel and precisely which behaviors you require from him to help you with those feelings, then lay out exactly what you want him to do and make sure to reach a concrete agreement on it. Write it out, even.


I view emotional management as being the responsibility of the adult who has the emotions.
Intellectually, I can grasp how it might be helpful to talk about them sometimes, but I don't have much of that need myself, and so I don't truly understand how talking to other people about emotions helps anyone, and therefore wouldn't know how to help anyone that way. When people tell me about emotional problems, I tend to have no idea what to do with that information. I might be able to help solve the problem that caused the feelings, but I don't have the power to manipulate others' feelings, so why involve me in them? (Yet it seems NTs have magical incantations that affect other NTs feelings.) In my mind, it doesn't have much of anything to do with me except by affecting whether or not and how they will interact with me while they feel that way. I don't know if that is an Asperger's thing, but that is what I am being reminded of when I read this sort of relationship issue.

As for generally having conversations about emotions...why? I don't understand the purpose of that. They are subjective and therefore difficult to describe and therefore, theoretically, difficult for the other person to understand. As someone who values making sense of things, I wouldn't understand what anyone could gain from such a muddy subject. I have heard people say that "merely talking about them," helps, but I don't know how that works, and what would I do in the meantime? Just sit and listen? And just how much could a person say about her emotions, anyhow? "I'm angry." "I'm joyous!" There doesn't seem to be enough available material to sustain a conversation.

I have a lot of trouble understanding people who need validation from other people. My validation as a person comes totally from within. In the context of a relationship, if the other person behaves as if she likes me, I assume that she likes me, and I make sure that she knows to openly voice complaints if she has any, which obviates the need for any other kind of validation vis-a-vis the relationship. Merely being in a relationship together is the validation, because she'd leave if the relationship weren't valuable to her. That's simplistic when compared to how some people approach relationships, but that's how I tend to view them.

If I had to categorize all of these perspectives, I would say that it's a matter of being very self-contained. The emotions stay inside instead of being co-managed by the partners. I don't really need a partner to do anything for me to be content with the relationship; I take her as she is and decide whether or not I want to be/stay with her. I mean that I wouldn't view the lack of conversational time, for example, as something she is not giving me (unless she is clearly avoiding necessary discussions), I would view it as a part of her personality and decide whether or not I am attracted to that or attracted to her despite that characteristic. I see most of the decisions and actions pertaining to my satisfaction in the relationship as my responsibility. And what I seem to see with some NTs is that they want to melt into each other and change each other and negotiate with each other and make demands on each other that are outside of the other person's character or comfort zone. And I'm more like work around it, do without it, or end it rather than bending the other person when possible. And that feeds back into the self-containment thing, because I need so little from people and would have gone to such lengths to ensure compatibility in the first place that I don't have a lot of bending and changing to ask for anyways.

So I'm thinking that maybe this person thinks like me in at least some of these ways, and therefore does not understand your need for more emotional sharing and validation. I can't say anything about the other issues.

You make so much sense! I'm usually a logical person and after what you said, well, it makes me wish that I didn't have to deal with my pesky emotions! I feel like such a girl.

You know, I really think it's an NT female problem because I think from reading "Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus" that NT males think like Aspies. Usually NT men think logically about relationships and prefer not to talk much about them and especially not to talk much about "feelings". It's hard for NT men to figure out why NT women act like they do, so I bet it's doubly hard for Aspie men to understand NT women. And that's probably why I read about more problems with Aspie men and NT women relationships rather than NT men and Aspie women relationships.

 

[May Black]

Thank you so much for your post, it was very interesting and educational for me. I'm not particularly emotional myself, and I'm generally quite analytic in my way of thinking, but I cannot think through my emotions. They exist, regardless of what I think is or is not reasonable. I lack the ability to actively change them while they're happening. I hope that makes sense to you.

• I don't need to discuss my emotions with others and don't understand how that helps other people, so I can't do it.

I need to discuss emotions when I don't understand them, either mine or my partners. I have a need to understand what my partner is feeling in order to be able to act correctly in given situation. Generally I'm quite good at deducting his feelings from his actions, but I'm not always capable of doing that. When I don't receive the feedback I need, I get very frustrated.

• Emotions are too subjective and insubstantial to discuss at length.

I have a need to connect to a person on an emotional level. I don't generally have to do that through discussion, but the times I do it will again be when I do not understand.

• Negative emotions are merely a symptom; it makes more sense to fix the core problem rather than focusing on them.

Essentially I agree with you, but some problems cannot be fixed, like death of a loved one. Some negative emotions are not reasonable either. I think talking about things that make me sad or angry works like a catharsis for me.

• The continuing existence of the relationship is the validation for the relationship, so what more is needed in terms of validation?

I think Aspies perceive the world as much more static than NT. My boyfriend told me he loved me, and that it applied until he said otherwise. This probably sounds perfectly reasonable to you, but it actually causes me a lot of discomfort. He acts loving, so I do get reassurance in a way, but I still feel like any day could be the day when he'll grow tired of living with me for one reason or another and there will be absolutely nothing I can do to change that. I feel like I'm not a part of the process and it makes me insecure. I don't experience my love for my boyfriend as static, and I cannot understand how he does.