Empathy - Do you feel it?

[Mattymatt]

I've read a lot about this over the past few years and I don't think I'm any closer to figuring out what it is.

Psychology Today defines it as such, "Empathy is the experience of understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from their point of view, rather than from your own."

There are lots of different, often confusing, takes on this line of thinking all over the internet. Many seem to confuse it with having feelings or not having the urge to be a serial killer.

To me, this notion of being able to feel feelings from anything other than your own point of view is as foreign to me as telepathy. Which would be fine, if people weren't so convinced that 99% of the population has this ability. I've even read a doctor of psychology calling it, "what makes us human." (seriously)

My take on this is quite simple: I don't have the capacity for it and have never felt it. I have a hard time believing anybody ever has. I have feelings. I have felt sympathy, concern and remorse in regards to other people, but I've only felt any of these things from my own point of view. My method of commiserating is to logically try to work out the issue, something which I have noticed is not something people look for in times of crisis.....yet another nuance that escapes my sense of reason.

I suppose I am posting this here to ask if anyone with the condition feels like they can feel empathy? Has anyone learned how to do this?

If you are concerned about Sociopathy or Anti-social Personality Disorder, I can allay your fears because you exhibit none of those since you can still experience some form of empathy. The classic signs and symptoms of APD are almost, if not outright, cold, manipulative, and calculating. Rather, I think this just might be something related to your Autism. I have the capacity for empathy, perhaps too strongly.

 

[Adora]

I have a lot of empathy,I seem to be highly empathetic towards animals and those who are struggling.

 

[midlife aspie]

I have empathy. My problem is that I can't demonstrate it without a time lapse. Slow CPU sucks. "How does that make me feel? Can I just get some empathy!" - Mrs. Midlife on more occasions than I care to count prior to the ''discovery'' of my ASD.

 

[Thinx]

Well I think empathy can be done cognitively, I can imagine how the person may be feeling and say something to acknowledge that. My imagining would be based on what they have said about what's happened, and me thinking about how it's affecting them, using my experience of similar situations and what I ve noticed about them as an individual.

I think maybe NTs have a more feelings based route, which is then taken to be the Correct route because neurodiversity isn't acknowledged to be ok etc etc.

However as several here have said, another difference seems to be some of us experience a kind of feelings download from others or from emotionally charged situations films etc. It's very interesting to try to follow what's happening and if we take this away from an assumption of deficit, we could be thinking about capacities the diverse brain has that are different and potentially can be developed.

 

[Progster]

The article linked in the OP mentions mirror neurons. How mirror neurons supposedly work, is that one looks at a person's face, reads their emotion, and then feels, or mirrors, that same emotion. So a person can look at a sad person and feel sadness themselves just from their expression, without necessarily knowing the reason for their sadness. I don't really experience this. I often feel something because their face changes, something 'hits' me, but this feeling I get is the same for all emotions, for sadness, happiness, anxiety. They all feel the same, like anxiety. But often I don't get anything at all, especially with subtle emotions, and don't know how the person is feeling unless they tell me. This feeling can be overwhelming for me.

Then, when I'm aware of emotions, what they are and what caused them, I don't know what to do about them, how to console, to express joy, etc - I feel kind of detached and awkward because I'm not feeling what they feel. Rather than comfort, I want to offer practical help to make the problem go away, and that is how I deal with such situations. I can use my experience and knowledge to work out what they might be feeling - for example: his father just died, so he is feeling grief. But I don't literally feel the same feeling as him, I don't feel the grief, I just know that he must be feeling this because that's how people usually feel when a close family member dies. For common situations, I'm able to understand cognitively and logically, what a person is feeling. For other less common situations, I may or may not understand the reason for a person's emotion. I think I only really understand if I have been in the same situation myself.

I think that most of my empathy comes from a sense of justice and fairness, my not wanting to hurt people and animals, not wanting people to experience pain or hardship, wanting to help people, rather than from emotions or literally feeling what they are feeling.
Edit: spelling

 

[Spagelo]

I have a very benevolent emotional disposition, so naturally, empathy is a core process of how I regard others. This state of being has influenced a rationally conceived belief that harmony is a power conjunctive with efficiency, thereby fueling growth and advancement.

I believe that forgiveness, decency, and affection are each necessary faculties for social conduct. That - if you interact with kindness and honesty, you will cultivate both your own well-being and have a positive influence on whatever collective good you involve yourself in. So are the physics of the cosmos, what is begotten of the pneuma, operating within the logos, by which ethos is attained and pathos is composed.

 

[SusanLR]

Like on the news -how many died? Don't care.

They don't care either.

They say they do as they have the 'social overlay' as the way they represent themselves in the world.
In the social real certain acts have to be undertaken so that your self image is not threatened. Additionally that self image has to be conveyed in the traditional 'social realm' in a consistent way so that no consequences are paid.

Empathy has always been an area of interest and difficulty for me.
I've read a lot of different versions on what it is and finally came to the conclusion it is something like the above quote.
It's a matter of how what you hear, see or do effects you emotionally and even physically.

Take the example of hearing on the news of an attack that left how many dead?
How does this news make you feel? Even if you don't know them personally.
Supposedly you are supposed to feel sad, hurt, sorrowful for the incident.
That is what I gather from the research I've done on the subject.
If it effects you emotionally or creates a physical feeling of maybe sick to the stomach reaction, tears, etc.
That's empathy.
If you feel nothing, don't care, or might just say "too bad."
That means no empathy.

There have been a lot of study on mirror neurons and showing photos of bad scenes to people
who are wired to record changes in their emotions, a lot like a lie detector, to see if there are
physical changes that the emotional changes create from bad scenes to good scenes.
Also this mirror empathy is supposed to 'naturally' create the feeling inside you that the
person you see is going through without thinking about it.
Example: If you see someone crying in pain because they have been hurt.
The natural empathy reaction is you will feel a sickness and some sort of pain upon
looking at another suffering.
So I came to the conclusion this is how you're supposed to know what they are feeling.
Even if it is not something you can relate to yourself.

As far as the social overlay, I think that is a big part of it.
We are taught from an early age to feel badly when bad things happen to others or animals.
Just like other things such as morals to the latest in style ways of life.
Some my truly have this mirror empathy, I don't know.
Some may be going with the group social mentality.

As far as the sociopathic personality and being manipulative and charming for their own gain,
they can be because they are usually highly intellectual people.
Anyone can have this type of head gaming personality, but, it doesn't mean they don't have
emotions. Again, it is usually a strong emotion of hurt or abuse that is the stressor of
serial killers.
Long post, I know. But, it has been a topic of much interest to me also.
And I see @Progster posted about the mirror neuron empathy before I got mine typed.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

I Want to add, what is the point anyway, I mean, if we learn to understand others problems and point of view, isnt that enought? I am sure that not getting as emotional as we should in some situations may be usefull, we already get emotionnal in situations that doesnt need it anyway, give us some rest kek

 

[Gracey]

The summer’s here, sun is out, so is my neighbour.

For the twenty years we’ve lived next door to each other she updates me every summer over the garden fence on her medical conditions and how much pain she endures in addition to any relationship drama and her families mental health experiences.

I’ve learnt over the years she doesn’t appreciate me giving advice on how to help herself and alleviate or fix certain conditions.
(She acts defensively)

She just wants to tell me all about her medical conditions etc.
She talks, I listen.

I think the only thing I feel Is bewilderment over why she isn’t doing much to change her own circumstances if they’re as awful as she describes.

That’s because it’s what I would be trying to do if I was ‘in her shoes’

She’s a nice woman, I like her (in small doses) but I can’t imagine what she’s going through because I have no similar memories of my own stored.
To match them up to hers.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

The title of the thread made me think about one of the greatest meme :

YOU FEEL IT TOO DON'T YOU?! xD

 

[sushiandsake]

I've read a lot about this over the past few years and I don't think I'm any closer to figuring out what it is.

Psychology Today defines it as such, "Empathy is the experience of understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from their point of view, rather than from your own."

There are lots of different, often confusing, takes on this line of thinking all over the internet. Many seem to confuse it with having feelings or not having the urge to be a serial killer.

To me, this notion of being able to feel feelings from anything other than your own point of view is as foreign to me as telepathy. Which would be fine, if people weren't so convinced that 99% of the population has this ability. I've even read a doctor of psychology calling it, "what makes us human." (seriously)

My take on this is quite simple: I don't have the capacity for it and have never felt it. I have a hard time believing anybody ever has. I have feelings. I have felt sympathy, concern and remorse in regards to other people, but I've only felt any of these things from my own point of view. My method of commiserating is to logically try to work out the issue, something which I have noticed is not something people look for in times of crisis.....yet another nuance that escapes my sense of reason.

I suppose I am posting this here to ask if anyone with the condition feels like they can feel empathy? Has anyone learned how to do this?

I feel bad for people who are hurting but without emotion. Kind of like, “aww poor person,” “ ok whats for dinner?” Sometimes i get annoyed if people are too emotional. Its just an interuption. It takes a lot for me to get really emotional as well. Im in my own world. But then other times I'm too emotional out of nowhere. Thats when the repetative disassociative behaviors kick in to wisk me away.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

A good example of BS

Be carefull, If you didnt wanted to Yawn you are probably a monster mouhahaha !
It made me want to laught personnaly

 

[Lia]

I have empathy, but my problem is that I don't express my emotions well, so to other people it looks like I have no empathy at all, which can be very frustrating.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

think the only thing I feel Is bewilderment over why she isn’t doing much to change her own circumstances if they’re as

I think it's what people do to define their realities in a way.
Ie I have elected to think of myself in this way.
I will say words
I will expect to receive confirmation so I can consider my reality defined in this aspect.

In more abrupt days if someone said how they 'thought' something, in a negative way,
I would say 'think something else then'
Me thinking that what you think can also be a choice and much less of a way to define e objective reality than they may think.

Useful device though.
Especially if we were thinking to meet on a Tuesday ,as I may have mentioned before

 

[xudo]

Like on the news -how many died? Don't care.

They don't care either.

They say they do as they have the 'social overlay' as the way they represent themselves in the world.
In the social real certain acts have to be undertaken so that your self image is not threatened. Additionally that self image has to be conveyed in the traditional 'social realm' in a consistent way so that no consequences are paid.

Like I would say 'Im glad they're dead'

This has the same actual depth of meaning as 'i am sorry they're dead'

But it has a different social interpretation - and consequence.

I can often be controversial just to convey that difference in meaning .

They also don't know they're responding within this 'social mind' it's part of their DNA.

We don't have the social mind, interpreting things in a different way.
A much more individual way. Whilst we have commanalites individual thought and experience take on a higher prioiryt as part of our neurodiversity.

Look again at the statement 'im glad they're dead'
This can also be interpreted as a joke using their 'social mind'
Usually if they like you or know you (ie he can't mean that therefore bad joke,admonish)

If not they can move to offence,aggression etc. (This guy is evil,must be gossiped against)

Rarely will the dichotomy be understood.

All a subconscious interpretation of the social mind.
The NT overlay preventing normal existence!

So people leaving flowers for someone they don't know who's died is because it's what's expected? It seems a bit like when people spend more money than they need to on a funeral. They're not really doing it for the dead person, because they're dead so how would they know - it's for themselves and the other people who attend.

 

[Progster]

So people leaving flowers for someone they don't know who's died is because it's what's expected? It seems a bit like when people spend more money than they need to on a funeral. They're not really doing it for the dead person, because they're dead so how would they know - it's for themselves and the other people who attend.

Yes, I find that people are mostly just going through the motions and making the 'right noises' rather displaying any genuine empathy.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

So people leaving flowers for someone they don't know who's died is because it's what's expected? It seems a bit like when people spend more money than they need to on a funeral. They're not really doing it for the dead person, because they're dead so how would they know - it's for themselves and the other people who attend.

It's socially advantageous to be thought of as 'nice'
This is one way of doing it.
It could also be genuine..... ''could'

So if you question them leaving flowers, the reaction is often anger.

It is translated as you questioning them being ''nice'

A direct assault on their social image.
You get attacked back -not knowing why.

Part of the general aspie/NT circle of difference.

 

[Mary Anne]

According to the dictionary, “In general, 'sympathy' is when you share the feelings of another; 'empathy' is when you understand the feelings of another but do not necessarily share them.”

I have more empathy than sympathy. Always. This is how I have been able to work with all kinds of people, from convicted felons, to people from all walks of life that are eons apart from my own world. It comes naturally because I am fascinated in learning. I DO have loads of both empathy and sympathy for people I feel have been wronged. People whose circumstances make me emotional inside.

It’s weird cuz mass shootings don’t choke me up. I tend to think way more about the poor tortured perp than the victims. Am I a monster? Ha ha - wouldn’t I make a great defense lawyer. Or a prison counselor. I feel sympathy for crime victims, but I feel a lot of empathy for the perpetrators. What made them do it? What mental issues and social issues built them up to the point of snapping? What bullying, what emotional and or physical tortures did they endure as children?

Now sympathy, I can not stand to be in emotional situations. I often feel empty or dead inside when others are emotional around me. Family members die- I am not crying. (Pets- I do. Even wildlife roadkill gives me great sadness). I might be secretly glad that blank human(s) died or traumatic happened. Too many humans, too much destruction on this planet. We all have to go in someway, and we keep inventing ways to save lives. I did cry when some friends died of AIDS. I did have empathy and sympathy for some of the 28 people I knew who had long torturous drawn out illness with Aids back in the 1980s. Their deaths are remembered. Maybe because I knew them. I did not cry for 911 but I did feel sadness. Mass shootings? Not really, not whatsoever.

Human society in not unklike any other biological system. Overcrowd it, stress it, feed it poorly, and House it unnaturally. Then observe the chaos that follows: internal destruction, and collapse of the system. Infantcide, and murder or others. This has been shown in countless studies with mice, and rats. It happens in the larger animal kingdom, and within the insect world too. Humans are doing the same now due to our not being able to keep up with the lightening fast technologies and so called “progress.” We cannot evolve fast enough. And it shows by brutality, wars, environmental destruction, over crowding, lack of nutritious foods, disease, human suffering round the globe. As we keep finding fixes for disease, and infertility, and keep on over populating despite all reasons not to do so, humanity naturally finds other ways to keep itself in check. I just see mass shootings, bombings, war, and catastrophic environmental events as ways that inordinately cause unnatural outcomes for keeping a natural balance in check.

I definately stop and stare at crime scenes and accidents. I’ve been yelled at to “move along- what’s wrong with you?” by the fire department cleaning up a horrendous accident. I been called names by same. Passersby are horrified and break into tears. I am transfixed -by the goriness, by the technical cleanup procedures, and by observing others reactions. I even took forensics in college. What a fascinating line of detective/ science work. I am removed emotionally from the brutal act.

People often break down and cry when they watch something bad on the news. I just turn off the news. Tv shows, cartoons, and movies generally never affect me emotionally (unless some documentary). I am surprised to read that others are affected. I cannot understand how something artificially created evokes more emotional response than real life.

All non-human living things- I have the greater passion for. Always have, and always will.

 

[Ylva]

I pretty much can't help imagining myself in another's situation, not as if I were me but as if I were them. My mental projection of them, anyway. I think it's an effect of reading novels, and I think it would have the same effect on NTs.

 

[SimplyWandering]

I feel the best way to describe my Empathic feelings is by saying I must have "Selective Empathy."

Sometimes I feel for others and sometimes I don't. I OFTEN ask myself if this is normal, my Therapist tells me it isn't about feeling abnormal, but simply about accepting that you have those feelings.

For example today I saw online that a friend of a friend lost his battle with cancer after a 2 year battle, leaving a wife and kid alone. I was near tears, I'd met him only once before, barely knew him and I don't know if it was his death,that he is leaving family behind/circumstance of his death, or the fact that I don't have people who care like that for me.(the last one being rather selfish of me for feeling that way)

Normally if I don't know the person I don't feel anything for someone 's loss. Even if I do know the person, I might not necessarily feel bad, sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. Wish I could know if this is Directly related to Autism or why.

ALL I know is that I have more compassion and empathy for animals than humans.