Empathy - Do you feel it?

[Mia]

Well I would agree that males, likely, struggle with empathy more. It's well documented and easy to believe. Through personal experience that goes beyond this one circumstance I can safely say I struggle with it more than most males. If I didn't care I certainly wouldn't be trying to find out just what empathy means to people or how people should react to the emotions of others. I think it's also safe to say that most males are not autistic. Part of my pathology is to understand the precise meaning of labels, especially one that's applied to me. Considering I know that I have depth of emotion that extends beyond myself, I find myself thinking about at what point that could be identified as empathy.

People I've known rarely express certain emotions, I've noticed when they suppress them. It's like a permanent mask that they wear in order to fulfill societal expectations. I know they feel the same things that I do, although they express them in a different way.

One friend used to be an EMT, and one day after a particularly awful week I found him cradling a baby squirrel that had fallen from it's nest. It had died of it's injuries and my friend was inconsolable, he wept openly on my front steps, with the tiny squirrel in his hands. We buried the squirrel together. His empathy manifested in that manner. For anyone who wishes to consider situations beyond the most obvious and overt this was an expression of empathy.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

Empathy in the OP's sense is a myth. Everyone is separated by an experiential void. People merely theorize and some are better at it than others.

Why is the idea forwarded in the OP's sense so much? Because people in general are inordinately presumptive and slow at self skepticism.

I tend to agree with this; that empathy is a myth or an empty statement. I have a hard time thinking about it any other way. Going off that, for this purpose presumed truth, would it logically follow that, the willingness to presume one's self importance is the difference between what people call empathy and whatever it is they say I have?

For example, let's say someone's dog dies. I mean I know they're upset, but pretending I care as much as they do about it would be pretty disingenuous. There is no earthly reason I should care as much about it or have any idea what they are actually feeling; even if my dog had once died. Dogs die all the time, I would have a hard time sleeping if I lost some every time a dog was put to the needle. I see true empathy in this circumstance as impossible, but is it the facade and the willingness to indulge in one's self importance that makes all the difference here? Sure, it sucks that their dog died, but they will probably just get another one.

Now if it were my dog, I would not expect anyone to understand my mental state and would find it somewhat, perhaps very, insulting for someone to presume to.

 

[aspieoutlaw89]

I've read a lot about this over the past few years and I don't think I'm any closer to figuring out what it is.

Psychology Today defines it as such, "Empathy is the experience of understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from their point of view, rather than from your own."

There are lots of different, often confusing, takes on this line of thinking all over the internet. Many seem to confuse it with having feelings or not having the urge to be a serial killer.

To me, this notion of being able to feel feelings from anything other than your own point of view is as foreign to me as telepathy. Which would be fine, if people weren't so convinced that 99% of the population has this ability. I've even read a doctor of psychology calling it, "what makes us human." (seriously)

My take on this is quite simple: I don't have the capacity for it and have never felt it. I have a hard time believing anybody ever has. I have feelings. I have felt sympathy, concern and remorse in regards to other people, but I've only felt any of these things from my own point of view. My method of commiserating is to logically try to work out the issue, something which I have noticed is not something people look for in times of crisis.....yet another nuance that escapes my sense of reason.

I suppose I am posting this here to ask if anyone with the condition feels like they can feel empathy? Has anyone learned how to do this?

I've read a lot about this over the past few years and I don't think I'm any closer to figuring out what it is.

Psychology Today defines it as such, "Empathy is the experience of understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from their point of view, rather than from your own."

There are lots of different, often confusing, takes on this line of thinking all over the internet. Many seem to confuse it with having feelings or not having the urge to be a serial killer.

To me, this notion of being able to feel feelings from anything other than your own point of view is as foreign to me as telepathy. Which would be fine, if people weren't so convinced that 99% of the population has this ability. I've even read a doctor of psychology calling it, "what makes us human." (seriously)

My take on this is quite simple: I don't have the capacity for it and have never felt it. I have a hard time believing anybody ever has. I have feelings. I have felt sympathy, concern and remorse in regards to other people, but I've only felt any of these things from my own point of view. My method of commiserating is to logically try to work out the issue, something which I have noticed is not something people look for in times of crisis.....yet another nuance that escapes my sense of reason.

I suppose I am posting this here to ask if anyone with the condition feels like they can feel empathy? Has anyone learned how to do this?

as an aspie,i'd like to say this.that's just dumb.the

what makes us human

part,i mean.i too have felt empathy (knowing how others felt about something done to them,that was also done to me).who says that aspies don't feel any kind of empathy.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

A good example of BS

Be carefull, If you didnt wanted to Yawn you are probably a monster mouhahaha !
It made me want to laught personnaly

I didn't yawn or feel the urge to do so. At least if they catch me they will probably release me as I haven't broken any laws.

 

[Metalhead]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as empathy, but I can imagine the pain a person feels when he or she is being marginalized and dismissed with prejudice. Seeing that happen makes me feel bad for that person, if that makes sense.

 

[Pondering]

I have a lot of empathy but a lot of the times I can't feel it.

 

[Gracey]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as empathy, but I can imagine the pain a person feels when he or she is being marginalized and dismissed with prejudice. Seeing that happen makes me feel bad for that person, if that makes sense.

I’m don’t know for certain if this is empathy either,
But this I can do.

Only I’m remembering my own feelings and guessing that they may be feeling something similar because the situations may be similar.

A pattern forming? A connection?
What’s previously happened to me in the past appears to be happening to that other person.
It’s possible they may feel the same way I did.
?

 

[GrownupGirl]

I've been told I have *too* much empathy, but maybe that's only because over the years I learned to fake it so people wouldn't think I was some kind of heartless witch.
I don't care how how many people die of whatever every whatever seconds a day, unless it's someone I know, and even if it is someone I do know, about the only people I'm likely to be actually be crying over are my parents and my brother.
But NTs have virtually no empathy for us, so they're being hypocrites, as usual.

 

[SusanLR]

Some have said they have too much empathy.
Psychology today explains what happens when this is the case...

The Empathy Response Can Lead to Emotional Overwhelm

Consider what happens inside us when we view the suffering of others. When we experience physical pain or emotional distress ourselves, a neural circuit becomes activated (anterior cingulate cortex—or ACC--and insula). Neuroscientific research (link is external) shows this same circuit gets activated when we see others suffer pain or emotional distress. So seeing the suffering of others causes us to suffer as well.

Although this response is crucial for social interaction, it is indeed unpleasant. If that circuit is hit too frequently (excessive sharing of others' negative experiences), it can lead to emotional burnout.

And so people develop strategies for protecting themselves. Some do what Alice's coworker did—put physical and emotional distance between themselves and the suffering person. Some stay present but emotionally dissociate, which the sufferer usually experiences as emotional abandonment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is the neurological scientific answer to how some feel empathy for others automatically.

This is also the neurological reason sociopaths do not feel badly inside when seeing the suffering of
others.
The neural circuit that becomes activated when we feel pain ourselves, also activates upon seeing others in pain. Doesn't matter if you know them or not or understand what they are feeling or thinking.
Or in the case of a mass homicide, you are seeing the results of pain.
This is the mirror neuron effect.

For the sociopath, this circuit becomes activated when they experience pain, but not when they see
others experience pain or looking at grisly scenes. Actually the opposite happens and the pleasure centers of the brain light up. What upsets most, actually can be exciting or calming in their brain.
This is the best explanation of empathy from a scientific viewpoint I have found.

So if you wonder if you experience empathy, think of how YOU feel when you see or hear of other's pain.

How do doctor's, morticians, and forensics do their job and not feel sick at the surgeries and blood and guts crime scenes? They stay present but know how to emotionally dissociate.

 

[Mary Anne]

Yes, I find that people are mostly just going through the motions and making the 'right noises' rather displaying any genuine empathy.

Some just go through the motions because it’s socially expected of them. Others go through the motions for emotional closure. If one has never experienced emotions so intense that they need closure, then it’s prety impossible to explain.

Funerals are a great example. Various cultures have uniquely different ways of “closure” when a person dies. Some of it is based on religious protocol, and some is based on environmental, financial, or some other means. When I tell people I do not want to go to a wake or funeral, they get mad at me. I can honor a person’s life in my own way...alone, in the woods, remembering their life. This does not sit well with lots of society.

 

[Progster]

Some just go through the motions because it’s socially expected of them. Others go through the motions for emotional closure. If one has never experienced emotions so intense that they need closure, then it’s prety impossible to explain.

Funerals are a great example. Various cultures have uniquely different ways of “closure” when a person dies. Some of it is based on religious protocol, and some is based on environmental, financial, or some other means. When I tell people I do not want to go to a wake or funeral, they get mad at me. I can honor a person’s life in my own way...alone, in the woods, remembering their life. This does not sit well with lots of society.

I agree. Women here wear black when someone dies, but I can't see myself doing this, because the colour black has nothing to do with how I'm feeling inside and I don't need to be wearing a particular colour or in fact need to prove or show to others in any way that I'm grieving, because that's a private matter and I'll do it in my own way and in my own time.

 

[Thinx]

I'm still yawning since watching the video although I may have been yawning before I watched it too. Am I tired or am I empathic? I yawned as soon as I saw the word I didn't even need to see the people yawning.
Am I psychic maybe? Oh that little blue heads yawning!

 

[Iamnotarabot]

I'm still yawning since watching the video although I may have been yawning before I watched it too. Am I tired or am I empathic? I yawned as soon as I saw the word I didn't even need to see the people yawning.
Am I psychic maybe? Oh that little blue heads yawning!

What I realy found amazing is own some video on youtube or other tests on websites/magazines can assume such a big thing about you just based on somehting so little like that xD

 

[Falcon]

I talked about this topic with my AS father and brother. I am NT.

The empathy experienced by NT is very different from that experienced by AS. It differs in components, and in self-definition. It is impossible to convey the difference of experience, which is due to neurological variations of AS compared to NT brains. Such variations are evident in fMRI and neuropathalogical analysis.

It is analogous to telepathy and it is more than intense feelings of personal distress, from a personal perspective. Intensity is not the measure, but mirroring is. For many NT, the mirroring is intuitive and not a utilitarian means of fitting in.

AS and NT can experience components of emotional empathy. AS are unable to accurately mirror cognitive empathy.

"Researchers distinguish between two types of empathy. Especially in social psychology, empathy can be categorized as an emotional or cognitive response. Emotional empathy consists of three separate components, Hodges and Myers say. “The first is feeling the same emotion as another person … The second component, personal distress, refers to one’s own feelings of distress in response to perceiving another’s plight … The third emotional component, feeling compassion for another person, is the one most frequently associated with the study of empathy in psychology,” they explain." It is important to note that feelings of distress associated with emotional empathy don’t necessarily mirror the emotions of the other person.

The second type of empathy is cognitive empathy. This refers to how well an individual can perceive and understand the emotions of another. Cognitive empathy, also known as empathic accuracy, involves “having more complete and accurate knowledge about the contents of another person’s mind, including how the person feels,” Hodges and Myers say.

 

[Progster]

I talked about this topic with my AS father and brother. I am NT.

The empathy experienced by NT is very different from that experienced by AS. It differs in components, and in self-definition. It is impossible to convey the difference of experience, which is due to neurological variations of AS compared to NT brains. Such variations are evident in fMRI and neuropathalogical analysis.

It is analogous to telepathy and it is more than intense feelings of personal distress, from a personal perspective. Intensity is not the measure, but mirroring is. For many NT, the mirroring is intuitive and not a utilitarian means of fitting in.

AS and NT can experience components of emotional empathy. AS are unable to accurately mirror cognitive empathy.

"Researchers distinguish between two types of empathy. Especially in social psychology, empathy can be categorized as an emotional or cognitive response. Emotional empathy consists of three separate components, Hodges and Myers say. “The first is feeling the same emotion as another person … The second component, personal distress, refers to one’s own feelings of distress in response to perceiving another’s plight … The third emotional component, feeling compassion for another person, is the one most frequently associated with the study of empathy in psychology,” they explain." It is important to note that feelings of distress associated with emotional empathy don’t necessarily mirror the emotions of the other person.

The second type of empathy is cognitive empathy. This refers to how well an individual can perceive and understand the emotions of another. Cognitive empathy, also known as empathic accuracy, involves “having more complete and accurate knowledge about the contents of another person’s mind, including how the person feels,” Hodges and Myers say.

I'm confused: so when I see a person whose family member died, and I understand through logical thinking that they are sad, but don't feel sad myself though I might feel stress at their predicament, this is cognitive empathy?

I've heard the theory that people on the spectrum lack cognitive empathy, but if this were the case, as a person with Asperger's, I shouldn't be able to do this.

 

[Propianotuner]

I'm confused: so when I see a person whose family member died, and I understand through logical thinking that they are sad, but don't feel sad myself though I might feel stress at their predicament, this is cognitive empathy?

I've heard the theory that people on the spectrum lack cognitive empathy, but if this were the case, as a person with Asperger's, I shouldn't be able to do this.

It isn't at all a case of people with ASD being necessarily incapable of either. NT's are more proficient in terms of cognitive empathy although they don't as a matter of course perform better in each category of emotional empathy.

 

[Falcon]

I'm confused: so when I see a person whose family member died, and I understand through logical thinking that they are sad, but don't feel sad myself though I might feel stress at their predicament, this is cognitive empathy?

I've heard the theory that people on the spectrum lack cognitive empathy, but if this were the case, as a person with Asperger's, I shouldn't be able to do this.

Using logical thinking to understand another person's feelings is how the AS/Asperger population subconsciously or consciously compensate for the lack of cognitive empathy.

In a similar situation, I am able to emotionally intuit how the person feels. I feel the sadness from their perspective while I am simultaneously aware that I cannot logically understand or comprehend their experience. The sensation doesn't stress me out and I am able to respond comfortingly. The words and behaviour I express are particular to the person and there is a reciprocal mirroring of feeling. They feel that I can feel them.

My AS father and brother don't know what to do in situations that require cognitive empathy. I notice that they try to logic a response. Onlookers perceive their awkwardness. It is what it is.

 

[Thinx]

Hi Falcon. You can't generalise about all AS people on the basis of your experience of yourself and your family. The info you quoted is quite vague, and the area is contested and not well understood. We are all different and this thread shows that.

 

[Mary Anne]

I tend to agree with this; that empathy is a myth or an empty statement. I have a hard time thinking about it any other way. Going off that, for this purpose presumed truth, would it logically follow that, the willingness to presume one's self importance is the difference between what people call empathy and whatever it is they say I have?

For example, let's say someone's dog dies. I mean I know they're upset, but pretending I care as much as they do about it would be pretty disingenuous. There is no earthly reason I should care as much about it or have any idea what they are actually feeling; even if my dog had once died. Dogs die all the time, I would have a hard time sleeping if I lost some every time a dog was put to the needle. I see true empathy in this circumstance as impossible, but is it the facade and the willingness to indulge in one's self importance that makes all the difference here? Sure, it sucks that their dog died, but they will probably just get another one.

Now if it were my dog, I would not expect anyone to understand my mental state and would find it somewhat, perhaps very, insulting for someone to presume to.

Thanks for letting me understand your POV . In the past, before joining this forum and learnimpng about Autism, I would be quite frustrated and angry with such statements. I would find your description about dogs, or pets here pretty cold and heartless.

 

[Falcon]

Hi Falcon. You can't generalise about all AS people on the basis of your experience of yourself and your family. The info you quoted is quite vague, and the area is contested and not well understood. We are all different and this thread shows that.

Thanks for your reply. I provided personal experience as context, not as generalisation.

I will not refer to AS/NT neurology in social psychology terms, since it is contested.

Instead I will emphasize that empathy is not as simple as intense feelings. Words don't suffice to explain an experience that is intuitive to some people and not others. Neuroscience research on brain markers is intended to develop a better understanding about empathy systems.

[Edit: What current research finds is that the ability to feel cognitive empathy is linked to a distinct brain empathy system, that is separate from the system which processes emotional empathy. Without the necessary grey matter, certain experiences are not possible since there isn't the wiring available. This applies to the general population, not only the AS population. See citations for supporting body of research.]

Empathic Care and Distress: Predictive Brain Markers and Dissociable Brain Systems

Two systems for empathy: a double dissociation between emotional and cognitive empathy in inferior frontal gyrus versus ventronedial prefrontal lesions