Dog-induced fear vs Numbers

[Ste11aeres]

I read today that in the United States, 43,730 people die every year from cars, 14,440 from falls, 5,555 form choking, 3,410 from fires, 3,334 from drowning, over 800 children are killed by parents or caregivers, and about 25 or 20 are killed by dogs.
Dog Bite Prevention | ASPCA
And it's not like the case in regards to the low numbers of deaths from sharks, where the obvious statement is: very few people are around sharks. Dogs are all over the place.

So why do so many people seem so much more scared of dogs than of all these other things?
Why do they have breed specific discrimination, against certain breeds that they're especially afraid of? (This is the dog-oriented equivalent of racism, although of course it's not as immoral to be racist against a dog as against a human. But there are interesting parallels).

 

[The Penguin]

I would like to know myself. But I admit I tend to have many issues of small dogs that haves Small Dog Syndrome. But this is at fault of the person raising the dog. Those don't know what Small Dog Syndrome read Small Dog Syndrome: Are we really the cause?

Though people might argue with me with larger dogs. I never had any issues with them.

But with any fear, it all goes based on experiences a person had with the dog in their life. I know some people was afraid of my doberman pinscher. However, he never once attacked a guest at my home. Once again someone might argue with me they had a bad experience. However, it usually have nothing to do with the type of dog, it haves to do how you raise it.

 

[Balkan1996]

I used to be VERY scared of dogs.

I didn't have any bad experience, I just thought they were unpredictable wolf-like creatures. I didn't understand them, that's why I feared.

A few years back, I started investing dog behavior and realized a lot.
People are more dangerous than dogs. Dogs live by a set of very organised rules. People have rules, but they can always change so most of them are pointless.

Instinct is what makes us fear.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I'm leery of any predator and quite simply don't like animals over a certain size because if it's having a bad day there is very little I can do to protect myself from it. Give me the choice between a crabby chihuahua and a pissed off elephant, I'll take the dog! I can drop-kick that mutt if push comes to shove. I'll also take a lovable cat over a lovable bull. At least when a cat headbutts you out of affection, it doesn't have the potential of knocking you completely on your rump unless you're already off-balance to begin with.

But all the above I respect and enjoy being around. The only things I'm outright scared of are the ones with venoms and poisons like pit vipers, rockfish, and so forth. I don't care how chipper those varmints are, I want to be far away or know there is some sort of solid protective barrier between us.

(This is the dog-equivalent of racism, although of course it's not as immoral to be racist against a dog as against a human. But there are interesting parallels).

I agree. I honestly don't believe you can be impartial to one species and not to another.

 

[Nadador]

Just my take:

We are conditioned to accept risk around things we require for daily life.

We need motor vehicles, which makes us forgiving, and are constantly among them with very few serious incidents, relative to the number that are out there. People who drive have licences, which adds to our confidence. We need shelter and places to work, and [most of us] feel confident that our homes and workplaces are safe from fire. Inspections and codes augment our confidence here. Our children need parents and caregivers, so we generally have confidence in them. Professional caregivers can be screened [to a degree] or are licenced. Parents? We're raised to trust them as part of our most fundamental socialisation.

We are conditioned to be confident in things we do under our own power.

We walk, run, and climb from a very early age, and become confident in our ability not to fall. We also generally have a choice where we walk, run, or climb, which gives us a feeling of control. We eat constantly, to the point where the process is virtually automatic, and become confident that we will not choke. We generally have a choice of what we swallow, which again, gives us a feeling of control. Most of us know how to swim, also from an early age, and have confidence in our ability to do so. We generally have a choice of when or where to swim, and are fairly confident that we can judge swimming conditions wisely.

Dogs are a living creature...independent, unpredictable, and with teeth. They are predators, as AsheSkyler pointed out, and at one point, likely preyed on us. Reasons for fear of dogs vary from instinct, to nurture, to unfamiliarity, to a previous bite or direct threat. When a dog is loose, neither we nor any other human is in control of that animal's actions. This amounts to something a person could reasonably fear, without much incentive for confidence.

I think your question about specific breeds answers itself. Special fear = special prejudice, as happens with racism. If you're asking where it comes from, I'd say it's a combination of reputation and appearance. Again, same with racism. Your parallel holds.

I honestly don't believe you can be impartial to one species and not to another.

I dunno about that. For a start, most people don't consider humans as being quite the same as other animals. I'd say a person could very well not be racist, yet still be prejudiced against other creatures, or varieties thereof.

 

[Harrison]

The two most complex human relationships outside of human pairing is that of our relationship to dogs and horses. The two animals represent pivotal points in human transition.

Dogs, as we see them today, are not a creation of nature, nor, technically are they predators but scavengers. Dogs are creations of mankind, bred to serve in many different ways they have become our companion and guardian throughout human history. It is believed to be the first non human companion we had.

Originally it would have been a wolf although there is also evidence for the existence of a 'dingo-like' animal as well. These animals could have been initially used to protect groups from other predators. Over time, through breeding, certain traits have been removed and others encouraged to develope, the main one being loyalty to humanity.

All this is engrained in our psyche, is part of the Collective Consciousness that Jung referred to as our archetypal library. Therefore dogs have a deep reference within us, we are as conditioned to them as they are to us. Dogs are the epitome of 'serve and protect'.

When this goes wrong, when a dog is mistreated so badly that it loses that prime identiy we are horrified, often moreso than when a human commits murder. We immediately fall into two camps of either 'this breed is bad, kill them' or 'it's the owners, they should be punished'. Rarely do we ever simply blame a dog, that is how deep it goes.

Innate fear of dogs can often be traced back to some major or minor trauma in the past. It doesn't have to be a dog 'attack', the dog may have just been present in an unfolding situation and been incorrectly perceived as the threat.

I have a fascination for wolves and have worked in a sanctuary with them, it made me appreciate dogs as they are so far from their distant cousins as we are from ours. One thing I learnt is that if a dog genuinely doesn't like someone it has a good reason.

 

[Nadador]

Gorgeous, Harrison. Gets my vote!

 

[alien girl]

I'm leery of any predator and quite simply don't like animals over a certain size because if it's having a bad day there is very little I can do to protect myself from it. Give me the choice between a crabby chihuahua and a pissed off elephant, I'll take the dog! I can drop-kick that mutt if push comes to shove. I'll also take a lovable cat over a lovable bull. At least when a cat headbutts you out of affection, it doesn't have the potential of knocking you completely on your rump unless you're already off-balance to begin with.

But all the above I respect and enjoy being around. The only things I'm outright scared of are the ones with venoms and poisons like pit vipers, rockfish, and so forth. I don't care how chipper those varmints are, I want to be far away or know there is some sort of solid protective barrier between us.


I agree. I honestly don't believe you can be impartial to one species and not to another.

a cat cant headbut you, but my cat wrapped itself around my ankles when i was going down the stairs. i didnt fall, but came close to it, lol.

humans are also predators, by the way, and unpredictable.

i'll take a friendly horse-size dog happily.

 

[Judge]

I can't think of anything that can bring a smile to my face faster than a dog.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I dunno about that. For a start, most people don't consider humans as being quite the same as other animals. I'd say a person could very well not be racist, yet still be prejudiced against other creatures, or varieties thereof.

Not just strictly racism. I've noted a few folk that were cruel to animals and held to some deep prejudices against people based on other merits, like gender, profession, and other categories.

a cat cant headbut you, but my cat wrapped itself around my ankles when i was going down the stairs. i didnt fall, but came close to it, lol.

humans are also predators, by the way, and unpredictable.

i'll take a friendly horse-size dog happily.

Maybe I got the odd kitties. They'd priss up to me just a purring, then ram their little noggins into me and proceed to wipe as much slobber and fur on me from one end of themselves to the other as they could. I miss them. 17+ is a good age for a cat, but still so short.

I would love one of those really big German shepherds or other large shepherding or hunting dog, but a horse-size dog eats like a horse! I'd have to get a third job just to buy the kibble.

 

[Nadador]

Not just strictly racism. I've noted a few folk that were cruel to animals and held to some deep prejudices against people based on other merits, like gender, profession, and other categories.

I see what you're getting at. I was thinking only of racism, as that was the bias Ste11aeres singled out. I also wasn't considering the idea of direct cruelty, only discrimination against certain breeds/species.

You're right, people who are cruel to animals likely harbour other cruelties as well. Animals are merely the easiest targets for their abuse. I don't mind if someone isn't fond of one animal or another, but I'll have nothing to do with anyone who would harm an animal, unless it's necessary to stop an attack.

I'll be honest...there are breeds of dog of which I'm wary. Breeds that are both purpose-bred and over-/recklessly bred are of particular concern. I once read an article about how certain colours are highly desirable in Pit Bulls [blue and red], such that some owners will gladly breed a bad-tempered or skittish animal just because they produce those coats in their offspring. Pit Bulls were originally developed in the UK for bloodsports, combining terrier determination with bulldog brawn. If you breed them carelessly, disregarding temperament, you're asking for trouble. I'm sorry to single out a much-maligned breed that can be a good pet, but they did earn their reputation. Ill-treatment and poor breeding have both contributed to that.

Five breeds are currently banned altogether in the UK: Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasiliero, and very recently, the Chongqing Dog. Wolf crosses are also disallowed, though they are categorised as exotics. I'd rather have outright bans, than have a breed be legal but at constant risk of euthanasia for the slightest offence.

 

[The Penguin]

Not just strictly racism. I've noted a few folk that were cruel to animals and held to some deep prejudices against people based on other merits, like gender, profession, and other categories.

I remember this temp job I did that me and my co workers are not fan of small dogs. Though one day someone witness a small dog being tortured. The person watched decided to teach this person a lesson and beat up the guy was abusing the dog. Despite me and my co workers don't care much of small dogs, we don't support torture of any animals. People torture animals are the scum of the earth!

 

[Ste11aeres]

Just watched this video, worth watching:
Cesar on a Mission | Cesar911.com

 

[Ste11aeres]

I think dog-ownership should be like being a car driver, where the human has to be trained, tested, and given a license.

 

[photoaddict]

Maybe I got the odd kitties. They'd priss up to me just a purring, then ram their little noggins into me and proceed to wipe as much slobber and fur on me from one end of themselves to the other as they could. I miss them. 17+ is a good age for a cat, but still so short.

Mine loves to headbut. I've joked that he's going to knock me out. Then there are the times he jumps directly onto my stomach or back in the bed--OUCH!!!! He's a fan of winding around ankles, too. I think he's trying to kill me.

Just watched this video, worth watching:
Cesar on a Mission | Cesar911.com

I'm not a huge fan of him. He's really hard on the dogs and "trains" by aggressively dominating them. He breaks their spirits to get what he wants.

I like dogs. Always have. My mom is a dog person, so she taught me to love them, even though we didn't have a dog. My dad doesn't like dogs. He used to fear them. His mom is absolutely terrified of them (don't know why) and taught him fear. Funny thing is, one of my mom's earliest memories is an incident where a dog bit her on the face and pierced her lip (had brand new puppies and was super jittery). Yet, she never feared them. I'm kinda middle of the road. I love my dogs and others that I'm familiar with. But after several years of very bad experiences (lived in a town where strays ran in packs and could be very aggressive), I tend to fear dogs I don't know. I'm much more cautious with them than I was before. And I'm flat out terrified of wolves (the breed of choice in that town were wolf dogs, which tend to act more like wolves than dogs--I was chased multiple times by dogs that looked like wolves). I have a fascination with wolves, but, even with a fence between us, I can feel the anxiety rising in my chest when I'm near one. I don't feel the same about other predators at zoos. Any other, I can just enjoy.

So, my nature is to love dogs because I love all animals, especially furry ones. I was nurtured to love them. My experience taught me to distrust them. I think, had it only been one bad experience, I could shake it off as a fluke, but with so many, I feel there's a need to be cautious. Also, I know it was 100% the owners faults that the dogs were the way they were. Some were neglected and allowed to roam the streets. Others were beaten to "teach them aggression, so they'll be better guard dogs" because an abused dog will totally protect its abuser, right? I've seen well handled "bad" breeds (pits and rotts) that were incredible and "good" breeds (labs and shepherds) that were dangerous, depending on their handling. Then there are the odd ones with screws loose. I had a dog that would randomly get aggressive, for no reason, then go back to being calm. Later discovered his whole litter was like that.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I'm not a huge fan of him. He's really hard on the dogs and "trains" by aggressively dominating them. He breaks their spirits to get what he wants.

I'm thinking you haven't actually watched many of his shows. I've watched tons. He doesn't break dogs spirits at all; rather, he helps them attain calmness, and mostly just educates their owners. His own dogs are very happy, far more than those of most people.
He has rehabilitated many dogs that other people thought were incurably vicious, dogs that other experts couldn't help; some of them would otherwise have been euthanized.
This dog is famous for having bit him when they first met (she had severe food-related aggression).

Here's another clip from when he was help a pregnant homeless woman who needed her dog to let down his protectiveness before she could move into housing.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Mine loves to headbut. I've joked that he's going to knock me out. Then there are the times he jumps directly onto my stomach or back in the bed--OUCH!!!! He's a fan of winding around ankles, too. I think he's trying to kill me.

Reminds me of my old kitty. Well, the male one, the female was sweet. He liked to knead when he purred. And not in the paddy-paw way my girl did, he'd extend those little claws to the fullest and woe to the poor thing caught in it! I forget how many times I dug him out of the carpet. He wasn't a bright kitty.

I see what you're getting at. I was thinking only of racism, as that was the bias Ste11aeres singled out. I also wasn't considering the idea of direct cruelty, only discrimination against certain breeds/species.

You're right, people who are cruel to animals likely harbour other cruelties as well. Animals are merely the easiest targets for their abuse. I don't mind if someone isn't fond of one animal or another, but I'll have nothing to do with anyone who would harm an animal, unless it's necessary to stop an attack.

I'll be honest...there are breeds of dog of which I'm wary. Breeds that are both purpose-bred and over-/recklessly bred are of particular concern. I once read an article about how certain colours are highly desirable in Pit Bulls [blue and red], such that some owners will gladly breed a bad-tempered or skittish animal just because they produce those coats in their offspring. Pit Bulls were originally developed in the UK for bloodsports, combining terrier determination with bulldog brawn. If you breed them carelessly, disregarding temperament, you're asking for trouble. I'm sorry to single out a much-maligned breed that can be a good pet, but they did earn their reputation. Ill-treatment and poor breeding have both contributed to that.

Five breeds are currently banned altogether in the UK: Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasiliero, and very recently, the Chongqing Dog. Wolf crosses are also disallowed, though they are categorised as exotics. I'd rather have outright bans, than have a breed be legal but at constant risk of euthanasia for the slightest offence.

Poor ol' pit bulls, they get no proper love, as quite evidenced from idiot breeders and then those who purposely raise them to be mean. (Hate to admit it, but I am a sucker for red pits and boxers with a stripy coat.) We had a stray one come up in the yard once that hung around for a while. Massive sucker, he had a head a good 20cm-25cm wide and he stood to my mid-thigh. Biggest danger of that monstrous galoot was when he'd clumsily step on you with those dagger claws or get excited, wag his tail, and nearly beat you to death with it. He also had the bad habit of stopping directly in your path... Our cat hated him and scratched him on the nose once. He then pretended to be asleep every time the cat passed by so he wouldn't have a reason to attack him again. Never met a dog that was a bigger baby than Butch. I really wish we'd kept him, but it's hard to feed a horse like that. Last I saw a neighbor up the road took him in and another pit that had been dropped off in our area.

Rottweilers, dobermans, and other guard dogs I'm also leery of for similar reasons. I may go look up those breeds you mentioned, I'm not familiar with them. But I'll bet they are some gorgeous animals. The only dogs I'm visually turned off of are the tiny little puffballs. They just look too silly to be taken seriously as a canine! To think, the once great Pomerian bred and reduced to being a replacement for the head of a mop.

I remember this temp job I did that me and my co workers are not fan of small dogs. Though one day someone witness a small dog being tortured. The person watched decided to teach this person a lesson and beat up the guy was abusing the dog. Despite me and my co workers don't care much of small dogs, we don't support torture of any animals. People torture animals are the scum of the earth!

Indeed! I certainly don't trust anybody that delights in torturing an innocent animal. I even have a tenuous relationship with sport hunting. I understand the purpose of hunting a critter to keep numbers under control so they don't overeat the area and end up starving in a slow death, but it seems a waste to not eat the varmint afterward or otherwise put its remains to good use.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Poor ol' pit bulls, they get no proper love, as quite evidenced from idiot breeders and then those who purposely raise them to be mean. (Hate to admit it, but I am a sucker for red pits and boxers with a stripy coat.) We had a stray one come up in the yard once that hung around for a while. Massive sucker, he had a head a good 20cm-25cm wide and he stood to my mid-thigh. Biggest danger of that monstrous galoot was when he'd clumsily step on you with those dagger claws or get excited, wag his tail, and nearly beat you to death with it. He also had the bad habit of stopping directly in your path... Our cat hated him and scratched him on the nose once. He then pretended to be asleep every time the cat passed by so he wouldn't have a reason to attack him again. Never met a dog that was a bigger baby than Butch. I really wish we'd kept him, but it's hard to feed a horse like that. Last I saw a neighbor up the road took him in and another pit that had been dropped off in our area.

Rottweilers, dobermans, and other guard dogs I'm also leery of for similar reasons. I may go look up those breeds you mentioned, I'm not familiar with them. But I'll bet they are some gorgeous animals. The only dogs I'm visually turned off of are the tiny little puffballs. They just look too silly to be taken seriously as a canine! To think, the once great Pomerian bred and reduced to being a replacement for the head of a mop.


Indeed! I certainly don't trust anybody that delights in torturing an innocent animal. I even have a tenuous relationship with sport hunting. I understand the purpose of hunting a critter to keep numbers under control so they don't overeat the area and end up starving in a slow death, but it seems a waste to not eat the varmint afterward or otherwise put its remains to good use.

I actually have a bit of an obsession with pitbulls. The county next to mine either enacted into law, or proposed as law (not sure which) mandatory spaying and neutering of pitbulls. I like this as people are allowed to have them, but it reduces problems with backyard breeding. Someone mentioned it to Cesar Millan in an interview, they seemed to expect that he would dislike it, but he was all in favor of it.

I knew a woman with multiple dogs, and I got to know her female pitbull and bond with her. She was mellow energy, very gentle. (referring to the dog) But there was something about her, a sort of dignity she had, more than most dogs, something that made one respect her. Perhaps it's my Aspieness that, rather allowing me to simply be into dogs as a whole, causes me to focus on one particular breed so much.

I'm not afraid or wary of dogs based on breed, but I am wary of some dogs if their body language says that I should be. I base my wary-ness or comfort around a dog solely on its body language and vocal sounds (if it is making them). Of course a big dog has the potential to be more dangerous than a small one, for obvious reasons, but it's not like I want to get bitten by one of the small ones either.

P.S. ALthough I mentioned "problems with backyard breeding", I'd like to revise that. I've just been watching something on puppy mills, and it is horrible. Backyard breeding is a far far better alternative to that.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I actually have a bit of an obsession with pitbulls. The county next to mine either enacted into law, or proposed as law (not sure which) mandatory spaying and neutering of pitbulls. I like this as people are allowed to have them, but it reduces problems with backyard breeding. Someone mentioned it to Cesar Millan in an interview, they seemed to expect that he would dislike it, but he was all in favor of it.

I knew a woman with multiple dogs, and I got to know her female pitbull and bond with her. She was mellow energy, very gentle. (referring to the dog) But there was something about her, a sort of dignity she had, more than most dogs, something that made one respect her. Perhaps it's my Aspieness that, rather allowing me to simply be into dogs as a whole, causes me to focus on one particular breed so much.

That's not such a bad idea. It's heavily suggested for most pets anyway unless you have full intentions of breeding. Although my husband refuses to spay his females these days. He used to deal in blue healers, and one he decided to spay and keep on as a pet ended up with a careless vet who cut into her bladder, which ended up killing her. We've both heard of too many spaying-related bladder problems and are pretty torn on fixing our shichi.

I'm not afraid or wary of dogs based on breed, but I am wary of some dogs if their body language says that I should be. I base my wary-ness or comfort around a dog solely on its body language and vocal sounds (if it is making them). Of course a big dog has the potential to be more dangerous than a small one, for obvious reasons, but it's not like I want to get bitten by one of the small ones either.

Oo, definitely. I am highly confused by a dog with hackles up but the tail is wagging. Happy? Mad? Aggressive? I usually judge by the hackles and try to ignore the tail.
Little doggies also have a higher bite-the-human ratio than bigger dogs, they have a reputation for trying to make up for their little size, like they have a fragile ego or something.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Oo, definitely. I am highly confused by a dog with hackles up but the tail is wagging. Happy? Mad? Aggressive? I usually judge by the hackles and try to ignore the tail.
Little doggies also have a higher bite-the-human ratio than bigger dogs, they have a reputation for trying to make up for their little size, like they have a fragile ego or something.

You're exercising good judgement in going by the hackles.
It's actually a myth that a wagging tail means friendliness. A wagging tail means excitement. Sometimes it can mean playful excitement, but other times it can mean aggressive excitement. I once saw a video of a Jack Russell who was trying to attack another dog-she was being physically restrained from doing so-and her tail was wagging like mad.