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Do you find advice or life coaching for NT's useless for you?

G

Guendolen

Active Member
Younger i was so obsessed with self-improvement. I used to read hundred of self-help books, life coaching books, healing from trauma and past abuse books (my mother is a malignant narcissist who used my diagnosis as a major tool of bullying in order to ''normalize'' me). 99% of them i consider to be total crap. Nothing would work for me. I learnt socializing rules but after each interaction (like going to a party) i would need 2 days in total isolation in order to recharge. Meditating or bubble baths had the opposite effect or make me super annoyed. Generic advice like ''give time to yourself'' infuriates me because it cannot be interpreted by my brain.
Is this because it is advice for neurotypicals? Has anyone here experienced the same or it is just me?
 
An interesting question, because I have definitely noticed that many therapies and techniques which are considered infallible by NTs, simply do nothing for me--or even make the situation worse, because I get angry that the "foolproof" solution is totally ineffectual!

I agree with you, many times the only solution to stressors--especially social ones--is complete solitude, and not just a few hours' worth but sometimes multiple days. I do find creative outlets very therapeutic (writing, painting, making music) just as many NTs but unlike most others, I have to be able to immerse myself in them for long periods (days, weeks...) before I feel any significant effect. So an hour in the studio won't make up for 23 hours of overload!
 
I couldn't have said it better...definitely been my experience. I have to tune out conversations or sermons or whatever that give superficial advice...it just doesn't work for me and makes me feel angry, broken, and more isolated than before.

I've told my therapist and the counselors I worked with before that "mental trickery" just doesn't work for me. Don't try to trick my mind into believing something else, because it will outright rebel.

What does work for me, a little bit, I've started to discover, is to focus on reading books that talk about the "why" rather than the "what". Don't do the "8 steps to..." type books. Focus on the "Why..." books, then use the patterns you see in what they're saying to figure out what works for you.

Also, it's been helping me lately to figure out my personality type (MBTI and enneagram recently), then read books and articles and websites about my type. I'm INTP on the Meyers-Briggs, and I'm a Type 5 (maybe with a wing 4, not sure yet) on the enneagram. So as I read about these types, I see myself, and I find ideas and insights that really do make a difference, especially if they're written by people of those same types.
 
Most self-improvement things I generally find to be unrealistic and nagging. I'm a real buzzkill when we watch little kid cartoons. I'm all the time nudging my husband and going "like hell is that gonna work, a little half-ass apology ain't gonna get ye outta that kind of trouble".
 
I've been encouraged to read the self help books, attend support meetings, utilize a life coach, and I've been in therapy on and off for years. I can understand intellectually how those little tricks and strategies might work, but always had a nagging feeling that they won't be so effective for me, a little bit, maybe for a short period of time, but eventually my old immutable self reappears.

Years ago, a girlfriend was in a 12 step group and thought that I would benefit from attending (not an addiction group). I read the books, attended meetings, got together with others outside of the meeting, but I felt that while I do struggle with the associated problem, there was something deeper going on. Aspergers turned out to be at the bottom of things.

I guess though, that it all contributed to getting diagnosed, but now what?
 
I've rarely been able to get much usefulness from self-improvement, other than the ability to appear to blend in with people who are true believers. It all falls apart when it's time to give testimonials, when I comment on how things failed, and people look at me oddly because "why did you think that?"

"Because it's logical," I say, and they look at me as if I've sprouted two heads.

It only gets worse when I start talking to medical people about one thing or another.

So I work things out with a counselor when I need to, because that's one-on-one, and somewhat less prone to fad adoption because the trendy can't maintain a critical conversation with someone who thinks differently. Isn't an echo chamber the only thing necessary to create a fad?
 
Type 8 was close for me, but Type 5 seems to hit it better, and that's what I tested at.

When I take the tests, I come out as INTJ, but the INTP descriptions fit me better.

Have you studied personality types much?
 
On a somewhat distant tangent, I'm reminded of the last thing said to condemned prisoner Barbara Graham before the door of San Quentin's gas chamber closed on her in 1955. Joe Feretti, one of the the men in charge of her execution, strapped Barbara into the gas chamber and gave her some advice. He told her to take a deep breath and it would go easier and quicker for her.

Barbara responded: “How the hell would you know?”

Exactly. Allegedly "good advice" sometimes goes only so far... :eek:
 
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I wouldn't say deeply compared to the amount of studying i invent in special interests. I have read a lot about INTJ and i relate so much. INTP and INTJ are very close in terms of characteristics, but i think INTJ are more emotionless or calculative and can scare NT's.

I come from a family with many fights that usually became physical. My mother says (i have no recollection) that when i was 5 years old i witnessed my father and grandmother fighting. After my father left, i went to my grandmother and asked her: ''grandma why don't you die?''
Shocked, she asked me why i say that and according to my mother i replied ''i saw on TV people who fight like this die. I need a caretaker and dad is younger than you. So please be the one to die''.

After that they took me to a children psychiatrist who said generic advice like ''give the child time''. Of course after that my mother labeled me psychopath. But i think it was INTJ behavior. Not sure.
 
Guendolen said:
INTP and INTJ are very close in terms of characteristics, but i think INTJ are more emotionless or calculative and can scare NT's.
Click to expand...

I think that's what confuses me in trying to figure out which I am. I have a lot of emotions...but they're buried really, really deep and I almost never reveal my emotions to anyone for anything. So does that put me towards INTP or INTJ? Maybe it's the AS interferring with a typical INTP expression? And maybe my trauma history is interferring as well? I don't know...it's really confusing.
 
I think both categories have emotions, but INTJ are considered top at emotion management. They can conceal their emotions, or use them to their advantage to the fullest extent. Maybe you are a hybrid, possessing characteristics of both categories. Personalities are not always black or white. But both types are very intelligent and analytical. I am sorry to hear you are trauma survivor too. If someone experiences trauma it can change some of their features or hinder them from expressing.
 
I think it depends how you look at informations presented in these resources. I don't look at a resource as whole, I only pick something that makes sense to me personally. Sometimes it could be only a few sentences in whole a book. I prefer books that don't contain a lot of personal stories but primarily solutions and strategies. All the solutions have one purpose, to modify behavior that doesn't help an individual to achieve his/her goals. It's a matter of a personal choice whether they want to modify a behavior. In many cases change in behavior doesn't mean deep profound change of personality. Plus in order to see a new behavior as natural it has to have a valid purpose and it has to be practiced for several months. I remember reading in one of those books, that before attempting any behaviour changes a person needs to be 100% honest with her/himself and make sure they do it for the right reason, and that personal issues or pressure from other people have no influence during decision making process.
 
I find your approach very useful in general. Personally though if i find only a few lines useful from a whole book, i consider reading it a loss of time.
 
Lol are we twins?

I spent the best part of my 20 ' s doing exactly the same thing with self help books and obsessed with reading anything on child abuse.

Oh my goodness me, a major ditto on meditation and bubble baths. The idea makes me cold. Happily we only have a shower.

Silence is the pits for me, but certain sounds, are too and thus, music is my salvation. Currently obsessed with certain types of Italian music (nope, do not speak Italian).Eros Ramazzotti and Laura Pausini. Wonder if my list will grow lol
 
"Be interested in others to get them interested in you."
"Be nice to make friends."
"Make people laugh and they'll like you."

Okay, done. I make my classmates laugh, ensure that our work flows smoothly and they don't have to feel shy about us all sitting awkwardly without knowing how to start, and am interested in hearing what others have to say.

...

Hello? Everyone? Where did you go? It's just me this weekend again.

"Take initiative and ask people out."

Oops, they've stopped talking to me.
 
I agree about most self help books out there! One in particular stands out in my mind, and that was The Rules. Purported to be a book on how to date and win the man of your dreams, I shudder to think what would have happened had I blindly followed the advice given in that book. I probably wouldn't be married now. However, some of the advice made sense; especially about letting a guy make the first move. In my past history of taking the initiative, I found myself to be misunderstood or downright rejected for asking guys out. When I met my husband, I held back and waited to see if he would express interest. I only sent him a friendly email after meeting him, saying I had enjoyed meeting him and hoped he was doing well. He wrote back, then after a few emails he asked me out. Now, if I had blindly followed all the advice in that book, I would have ruined it for sure. For instance, the book advises women to play dumb games with the guy they are interested, such as deliberately not answering the phone when they call, in an effort to make them go mad or feel intrigued because you aren't available. Maybe that would work on some guys, but my husband was shy and introverted and that would have made him quickly give up. I knew how much of an effort it had been to ask me out, and if I was interested in him too, why play games at all?
 
I've read books and tried to apply some of the stuff but it never worked for me unless it was extremely specific and factual, like about time management.

More general topics never worked for me; firstly, they are way too emotional and I'm rather emotionally detached; secondly, they operate with self--talk, inner dialogue ... and I simply lack that module. Whenever I tried to talk to myself I got totally annoyed because it's just unnatural for me.
 
I think there's good advice out there to be found, but also a lot of bad ideas have tripped me up. Self-help is an unregulated area, to be used at ones own risk. I remember looking at one of those self-proclaimed life coaches, and thinking he was entertaining, but kinda preachy and not the sort of person I want to be. Anyone who comes across as lecturing, I look at and think: who is this to lecture me on anything, I may evaluate their lifestyle, their relationships, and really size them up before considering anything they say.
 
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