Do you consider "Immersive Sim" a genre?

[BrokenBoy]

I personally see it as more of a game design philosophy than an outright genre to how ill-defined it is. Whenever I read a description of what it supposedly entails, it comes across as just another way to say "non-linear game" in the same way "interactive drama" is to me just another of saying "story-driven game".

Some examples of games described as such include:

Ultima Underworld (1992)
System Shock (1994)
Thief: The Dark Project (1998)
System Shock 2 (1999)
Deus Ex (2000)
Dishonored (2012)

What do you guys think? Do you consider this a genre?

 

[Misery]

For those who dont know, Wikipedia's definition of this is:

An immersive sim (simulation) is a video game genre that emphasizes player choice. Its core, defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions which, combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities, allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems, as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer.his definition is not to be confused with game systems which allow player choice in a confined sense or systems which allow players to easily escape consequences of their choices.

Aye, way too ill-defined to be a genre. I can think of a bazillion things that could go into it and many of them arent even remotely like the others. Heck, they dont even have to really have storylines, even. Dwarf Fortress for instance... once you get past the graphics you dont get much more immersive than that one, but it has zero story other than the story you create by playing it (well, and the bonkers amount of lore it generates during world creation).

Another couple of examples I personally am familiar with are Streets of Rogue and of course Minecraft. I suppose Terraria probably fits, if Minecraft does.

Honestly I think a better description for pretty much everything here would be to just say that they have heavy emergent qualities, rather than to try to jam them into a "genre" that has such a screwy description. I sure do hear people saying "immersive sim" a lot lately though.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that a LOT of roguelikes could fit that definition too.

 

[BrokenBoy]

For those who dont know, Wikipedia's definition of this is:

An immersive sim (simulation) is a video game genre that emphasizes player choice. Its core, defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions which, combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities, allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems, as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer.his definition is not to be confused with game systems which allow player choice in a confined sense or systems which allow players to easily escape consequences of their choices.

Aye, way too ill-defined to be a genre. I can think of a bazillion things that could go into it and many of them arent even remotely like the others. Heck, they dont even have to really have storylines, even. Dwarf Fortress for instance... once you get past the graphics you dont get much more immersive than that one, but it has zero story other than the story you create by playing it (well, and the bonkers amount of lore it generates during world creation).

Another couple of examples I personally am familiar with are Streets of Rogue and of course Minecraft. I suppose Terraria probably fits, if Minecraft does.

Honestly I think a better description for pretty much everything here would be to just say that they have heavy emergent qualities, rather than to try to jam them into a "genre" that has such a screwy description. I sure do hear people saying "immersive sim" a lot lately though.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that a LOT of roguelikes could fit that definition too.

TBH I've always considered "character action/stylistic action" to be a much more defined and consistent genre as there is a craptons of common elements throughout all the games given that label despite being much younger and not even having a Wikipedia article.