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Direct involvement in research

Well I agree with you on the pseudoscience front but not really the rest. I see this too often on this site. Jaded and often traumatized people with aspergers deciding that they are somehow different or better than the rest of us. Norman Normal does not have an inadequate brain and neither does Allison Autistic or Albert Aspergers we just all have different brains but I would argue that we share more in common even though maybe on the surface I am stimming more and I can't hold a job. I think complexly and differently than a "normal" person but I think I think like you. This is of course not meant to call you out but you seem to think in many layers and have put a lot of thought into this topic maybe to the point of perseveration (I do that), your thinking also seems quite rigid and that of course begs the question why am I trying to change your mind but of course I am rigid too, we both seem to like big words and communicate in greater detail than the average person, you also seem to think logically but to a point you see your emotions as logic and I also tend to do that. We on not not different spectrums you are just less overwhelmed. My issues come from how sensitive I am to everything and also the fact I hate socializing and being around people. You're just better at faking it.

The reason I'm looking at discontiguity is precisely because society has separated itself from us. Once, we'd have been drowned as witches of burned as heretics - and not that long ago, either. There are differences - my giftedness, my ability to "push" folk mentally. That drunk I talked about, his barriers so far down he read my impulsion, quite correctly, but couldn't resist the instruction. He told me so, quite angrily, but in the middle of complaining, dropped off to sleep, landing safely in a seat. I use it as an entertainer, a vocalist: there's a Youtube video of it happening, David Byrne's Atomic Bomb gig. I'm the vocal leader in the 180-strong backing choir at the end. In fact, we'd built up so much impulsion the dots ran out, David waved a go-round and it was my musical knowledge which placed the impro loop-point: that the entire damned choir got it was crazy.
I'm rigid to the extent that I'm fairly sure of my truth and that's not negotiable. You come to me, gentlemen trickcyclists, I've done some really hefty stuff and you don't get to redefine me. I've given you a hearing and I'm not satisfied with the answers. You've not asked me, and you haven't asked a shedload of others, how we think. I've taken six years, 9% of my life, considering this, and all I've discovered is BS.

You say you think differently from a neurotypical. In what way, please? I've asked myself that question, and realised that the EEG which followed the MRI was rather revealing. Catching up with psychology in learning how to heal my traumas was equally so, that they'd subclassified perception, but left a hole because science can't cope with the intangible. That's science's problem, not ours. Once we've a solid base in knowledge of our mentation, we can move onto the non-mentational.
 
I am not "kowtowing to the establishment." I am speaking as an autistic father of autistic children. I appear to be from a long line of autistics, but the mass neurological dysfunction is new to my children's/nephew's/niece's generation. Can't an autistic tell that reality?

If there was no massive jump in occurrence, I would just accept that that was the hand we were dealt, but statistically, that isn't the case.

And to be clear, that has no impact on the value of my ASD2 & 3 children, nor my love for them, just on their quality of life. If that unprecedented neurological dysfunction is acquired, it must be prevented if possible. It is actually misautistic* not to do so.

*Autistic-hating or, at least, neglect.
I guess what I am confused about is what are the symptoms of this mass neurological dysfunction? How are they different from your generation. Because my understanding was the people like your kids where the people getting diagnosed more anyway more than you would be even more when you were younger or your parents were younger. Also what do you think is causing this. If you can please be more specific than just the environment. The current scientifically supported cause is genes yes including the comorbidities so if you have another idea please share but be spacific if possible.
 
The reason I'm looking at discontiguity is precisely because society has separated itself from us. Once, we'd have been drowned as witches of burned as heretics - and not that long ago, either. There are differences - my giftedness, my ability to "push" folk mentally. That drunk I talked about, his barriers so far down he read my impulsion, quite correctly, but couldn't resist the instruction. He told me so, quite angrily, but in the middle of complaining, dropped off to sleep, landing safely in a seat. I use it as an entertainer, a vocalist: there's a Youtube video of it happening, David Byrne's Atomic Bomb gig. I'm the vocal leader in the 180-strong backing choir at the end. In fact, we'd built up so much impulsion the dots ran out, David waved a go-round and it was my musical knowledge which placed the impro loop-point: that the entire damned choir got it was crazy.
I'm rigid to the extent that I'm fairly sure of my truth and that's not negotiable. You come to me, gentlemen trickcyclists, I've done some really hefty stuff and you don't get to redefine me. I've given you a hearing and I'm not satisfied with the answers. You've not asked me, and you haven't asked a shedload of others, how we think. I've taken six years, 9% of my life, considering this, and all I've discovered is BS.

You say you think differently from a neurotypical. In what way, please? I've asked myself that question, and realised that the EEG which followed the MRI was rather revealing. Catching up with psychology in learning how to heal my traumas was equally so, that they'd subclassified perception, but left a hole because science can't cope with the intangible. That's science's problem, not ours. Once we've a solid base in knowledge of our mentation, we can move onto the non-mentational.

Oh of course I don't seek to redefine you however in your first post it seems you seek to redefine many people to your definition and that is more what I am pushing back on. As for how I think I mean I could list off 1000 things and you could find a NT who thinks that way. It's not one thing along but instead a constellation of characteristics. I am ridgid, I think in detail, I see little need for most social convention or authority, I don't like to socialize very much, I conceptualize emotions unlike most I have trouble describing them to other people along with describing physical sensations,I can focus on one thing for a very long time, I need a lot of movement a deep pressure to stay regulated, I need directions and rules said very clearly anything that's not clear I have issue figuring out,I don't lie even white lies etc I could go on. But I am not known as a high functioning aspie so I don't know what/how much would apply to you.
 
I guess what I am confused about is what are the symptoms of this mass neurological dysfunction?
They are varied. It is the severity that is the issue. Every chart that I have shown so far has been ASD2s & 3s only, which have always been recognized in one form or another. The increased diagnosis of ASD1 has had zero effect on these charts; they are not included.
How are they different from your generation.
In my generation and prior, the vast majority of autistics were seen as geeks, nerds, eccentrics, etc. Socially odd? Yes, but with no appreciable neurological dysfunction.
 
In my generation and prior, the vast majority of autistics were seen as geeks, nerds, eccentrics, etc. Socially odd? Yes, but with no appreciable neurological dysfunction.
That is not all factually correct. Asd 2 and 3 were often put in institutions and taking from their families. They were blamed on bad parenting. There is no world where if we just all did the right thing we would all end up as "useful" autistics or like bill gates or something. You are clearly hurting but it is no excuse to hope pseudoscience and aspe supremacy is gonna save you.
 
I am not "kowtowing to the establishment." I am speaking as an autistic father of autistic children. I appear to be from a long line of autistics, but the mass neurological dysfunction is new to my children's/nephew's/niece's generation. Can't an autistic tell that reality?

If there was no massive jump in occurrence, I would just accept that that was the hand we were dealt, but statistically, that isn't the case.

And to be clear, that has no impact on the value of my ASD2 & 3 children, nor my love for them, just on their quality of life. If that unprecedented neurological dysfunction is acquired, it must be prevented if possible. It is actually misautistic* not to do so.

*Autistic-hating or, at least, neglect.

I don't think it is new. My grandfat her was CPO Mess Steward of the Royal Navy Officers Mess at Portsmouth: he was a human computer, by all accounts, in the years before electronic ones. Prince Philip knew him as as junior officer, and so got on well with my father, who was a top mechanical engineer. Philip was known for his appreciation of the engineering professions, the way they integrated them paid off in spades a year ago when that body led on ventilator design. From a standing start, they had product rolling into the hospitals in 5 days. It's part of the current fuss over Dyson. Philip was fitted with hip implants, a technology likewise sorted out by Dad when the medics were on the point of giving up. Inspired by da Vinci, "the body is a marvellous machine", he applied mechanical engineering techniques: the first implant used a motorcycle cylinder reamer operated by the team making prosthetics at Roehampton. The surgeons just opened and closed, watched and learned. But we've been naval engineers since forever. Likewise on mum's side, she worked on Gandhi's team, her aunt was on a team which won the 1919 Nobel Prize for Medicine, and was Natural Sciences coach to the Belgian Royal Family. The fact psychology's woken up doesn't mean there's a pandemic necessarily.
However, there may be a cultural shift, in that 75 years of peace means people are more aware of themselves. They can get tested. Some of the questions can be asked, but the real issue is are they the right ones? I was part of that in the 60s, part of the extension of IQ testing to kids. Greta Thunberg would have tested against me, I now know. For most of my life, I didn't realise what I was. They never told me. It was a start, but not necessarily the end. If NTs lack the imagination to look properly, it's time for the more competent to step in. We're experts in who we are, we live the real thing 24/7. Not the kind of ersatz ex-spurt my Dad complained of, an out-of-date drip under pressure. So why aren't we telling them?
 
The fact psychology's woken up doesn't mean there's a pandemic necessarily.
The reports are not counting the ASD1s which are still most of us. There are more 2s & 3s than there should be, statistically-speaking.
 
That is not all factually correct. Asd 2 and 3 were often put in institutions and taking from their families. They were blamed on bad parenting. There is no world where if we just all did the right thing we would all end up as "useful" autistics or like bill gates or something. You are clearly hurting but it is no excuse to hope pseudoscience and aspe supremacy is gonna save you.

In fact, the UK Prime Minister was looking for "geeks and weirdos" a year ago after the UK Civil Service mandarines seriously blotted their copybook over Brexit. How much of that was down to Dominic Cummings is anyone's guess, and my comments over Dyson are headline news because Cummings and Jognson have fallen out big time. Equally, I don't know how much I had a hand in it in 2015, because my performance during my IQ testing wasn't just visible to Harley Street, it was also visible to half the Government at supper in the Savile Club. People like Rory Stewart, Andrew Mitchell, Johnny Mercer knew me well. That was the year Superforecasting was documented, which was my starting point. I became an entire order of scale better than that.
Why aren't I involved? I'm 66, ten years retired from a similar snake pit in Europe. The Government had blotted its copybook badly over that in my eyes. Who needs the Press pack? We saw it over Andrew Sabisky, shredded because his personal studies had drifted into delicate areas, in terms which would send anyone with any wisdom running. The hatred in their voices, a modern auto-da-fé.
 
Every condition is defined by a baseline.

A baseline I'm part of, likely at the top end. When kids are tested for IQ, I'm probably the top marker, thanks to the Tavistock Clinic 1963-7. It's why I could never test, the maths compares the test subject with each of the baseline scores, multiplies the differences, and uses that as a divisor. Me-Me = 0, which wipes out the rest and makes the calculation indeterminate. They caught up with me aged 60, because I was now on the decline.

As for paragraphs, I use them when I shift themes. As just now. What you're getting is more than normal on a single point: that's what I call the Twitter effect. I refuse to use it because what I have to say can't be said in so few characters, other than Foxtrot Oscar. It's geared to conversations, for which there's a chat page. This is on the record.
 
Given they missed most at the start, that's sampling error. Now they're overshooting, catching all and sundry in an overlarge definition. You seem to have a hero-worship, these people don't know what they're on about because they're too arrogant to ask. Maybe it's in their financial interests not to. It's a nice little earner, traumatising kids then charging them for the consequences. Blackmail's too kind, I'm thinking more along the lines of Sweeny Todd.
 
A baseline I'm part of, likely at the top end. When kids are tested for IQ, I'm probably the top marker, thanks to the Tavistock Clinic 1963-7.
For intelligence, 100s are the baseline, if you know what I μean.
...other than Foxtrot Oscar.
If my position offends you, I don't have to press the issue here.
You seem to have a hero-worship, these people don't know what they're on about because they're too arrogant to ask.
Not so.
Some of my resources, in the past, have taken the position that all autism is defective, but have had other helpful information. The one that I am thinking of has moved away from that position recently.

BTW, is "hero-worship" your characterization of my stated reality as an autistic father of autistic children (i.e. The No True Scotsman Fallacy)?
 
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In fact, the UK Prime Minister was looking for "geeks and weirdos" a year ago after the UK Civil Service mandarines seriously blotted their copybook over Brexit. How much of that was down to Dominic Cummings is anyone's guess, and my comments over Dyson are headline news because Cummings and Jognson have fallen out big time. Equally, I don't know how much I had a hand in it in 2015, because my performance during my IQ testing wasn't just visible to Harley Street, it was also visible to half the Government at supper in the Savile Club. People like Rory Stewart, Andrew Mitchell, Johnny Mercer knew me well. That was the year Superforecasting was documented, which was my starting point. I became an entire order of scale better than that.
Why aren't I involved? I'm 66, ten years retired from a similar snake pit in Europe. The Government had blotted its copybook badly over that in my eyes. Who needs the Press pack? We saw it over Andrew Sabisky, shredded because his personal studies had drifted into delicate areas, in terms which would send anyone with any wisdom running. The hatred in their voices, a modern auto-da-fé.

It may be out of topic,but what have you studied?
I read your posts in this thread and i try to understand from where you started. I have my self a Bachelor degree in International and European Relations, i had ambitions when i was 18. I saw how the diplomat world works and i didn't like it.
 
It may be out of topic,but what have you studied?
I read your posts in this thread and i try to understand from where you started. I have my self a Bachelor degree in International and European Relations, i had ambitions when i was 18. I saw how the diplomat world works and i didn't like it.

I was HQ Accountant, then Head of Finance of the Western European Union. Because we were a small, and therefore necessarily highly polyvalent, International Organisation, I was the only one in the Finance team with military experience, and so wore the Ops Finance hat too. When Albania collapsed in 1997, that meant my previous experience as Cadbury Schweppes Chief Dealer in the Group Treasury, backed by first-hand training by Eddie George and Mervyn King while middle-ranking managers in the Bank of England, was invaluable in restabilising their economy, and then a prestigious pensioner in Malta led to a conversation which went, "Well, strange you should ask. We'd like to join the Euro." Which meant pathfinding their accession. From there, completing Gandhi's unfinished business. That could only be capped by the full eschatology - which duly delivered.

I realised quite early on I'm a generalist by necessity. My degree's in Business Administration and French, but the Eschatology has left me with new discoveries in the roots of the Renaissance, so right now I'm an external researcher and founding member of the Warburg Institute's Esoteric Studies Reading Group, the schola named as The Library of the Weird by the New Yorker. My 1978 undergraduate thesis was a study of Counterpurchase, which earned me an MI5 viva when I investigated the exceptions to the rule and discovered a covert drain on the Warsaw Pact satellite states economies paying for the USSR military. That was unsustainable in the medium term, and the resulting superforecast indicated economic implosion in 1988-9. The metamorphosis happened about five years later, and WEU's new Sherpa wrangler, PA to the Head of Council Secretariat, walked into my life in 1986, in a clarsach adult evening course. We discovered there was something there, so the Secretary General took an interest, and rather than footle around, when he had us at his table at the 1988 Christmas lunch, I came to him on his own ground, giving the heads up on what was still on course. As a result, I was on the must-have list when we moved into full ops mode.

I'm also an occasional participant in Birkbeck College's Weekend University, a group of external students of psychology at undergraduate-masters level. I can generally hold my own at doctoral level, indeed my 2015 paper which attracted governmental interest was in a global resource issue my father had had a hand in forty years before. As a hobby, I used to sing, having been given useful guidance by Brenda Evans, Sir Geraint's lady, and after putting the key under the door of WEU in 2015 became quite proficient, performing at a fairish level. Traumatic experience caused in adolescence put an end to that, so after sitting in on Bessel van der Kalk's Boston Trauma Research Foundation's annual conference (which took me two sittings to get up to speed on, first to identify jargon and stances, second the details), I was in a position to generalise the treatment options and select the best, with a degree of experience from having accidentally healed one instance. I hope to clear the complex mess in a couple of weeks time.

One matter to be clear on, my experience shows that my path was built for me. My brains are there to cope with the adorative side of a very dynamic relationship with the divine, and there's no way I either could or would have put myself on that path. Indeed, when we decided not to, we were corrected, with the finance slot appearing exactly synchronously with my redundancy to the second! That my planning would land me in the setting needed for the future eschatological work, picking up another future staffer on the way, was a typical example of the chain serendipity PastelPetals talked of at the start of this thread. It's not chance at all, of course, just you getting into tune with what you're supposed to ve doing, divine mentoring.
 
For intelligence, 100s are the baseline, if you know what I μean.

If my position offends you, I don't have to press the issue here.

Not so.
Some of my resources, in the past, have taken the position that all autism is defective, but have had other helpful information. The one that I am thinking of has moved away from that position recently.

BTW, is "hero-worship" your characterization of my stated reality as an autistic father of autistic children (i.e. The No True Scotsman Fallacy)?

Just to note I'm a very dominant personality, by necessity given I've had to be a major authority in baling out wrecked nations, I'm setting anchors for eternity for them and my word has to be very serious indeed, lest we get into the subversive mess Boris Johnson's in. He should have smashed Keir Starmer into powder long since. You persistently quote the status-quo, and it's being demolished, which I appreciate is awkward for you. Maybe what they say is pertinent to the mainstream, and I'm not, but I note I'm not alone in refuting their theses. Just saying "we think differently" is lazy beyond words: more explanation, please. I've described my mindscape: chains of thought branching off and remerging, going in useful circles, sometimes contradictorially. On occasion, entirely distinct domains in performance.

Simply mapping research done in low-performance to high on the basis of a Nazi's sayso is about as offensive as it gets, engaging me professionally as part of the team which denazified Germany. I appreciate there are superficial similarities, but it's a bit like a child presenting with red spots, they may be anything from marker to measles to meningitis! This is why I'm trying to get below the surface of meltdown. What are it's causes? I'm working with a UK National Autistic Society Child Support mentor here: is it trauma, Intense World Syndrome, overload, or something else?

A major part of it's meditative. Every part of grounding slows our cognitive system to manageable proportions, given the mid-brain gyri feeding neuroception can't hope to handle the rest firing at full blast. An NT will overload very quickly indeed, tripping out, crashing, but we don't. I'd encourage what happened with me after a first MRI, a 24-hour EEG study, to get a sense of the scale. Are some people completely overloading their neuroceptive capacity, for example? Yes, brain damage is a domain of low-performance research, but what about those with no damage? A London taxi driver's study of the detailed geography of London creates a disproportionately large geospatial gyrus, for instance. Are there parts of our brains which aren't typical?

One point I come back to is basic reality. Logic is logic is logic. And yet to balance our putatively enhanced left lobes, are we compensating with imagination and right brain engancement? Some suggest empathy off the scale. My religious focus (and keep Organised faith out of it, in passing) may be part of that.

And so on and so forth. Hopefully others can join in. It may take time reflecting on the whys and hows. But we have to start somewhere.
 
As far as the baseline's concerned, it gets very thin at the top. I looked at it studying statistics, long ago, justba couple on 163, then a gap to the mid 150s. When they told me I'd scored 153-4 aged 60 implies mid-160s at peak, it took a while to get past that and realise that intersecting the two sets of data meant I was likely one of the 163s, which explains the fuss made when the Tavistock Clinic finally had me up to Belsize Park. I did the test, they scored it, and then the head honcho came down to congratulate me. What for, nobody ever told me, all I had was repeated orders NEVER to test again. A 12 year old doesn't expect anything else of adults, I dismissed it. Now I've some context, 50 years later, I can take the only data I have from then and use it in the pre-Binet calculation, which used General Knowledge. My tested GK of a 14 year old aged 8y6m is exactly what was used, 14/8.5 = 165%, pretty much confirms it.

So no, I'm not just baseline, but a top-end anchor, in all likelihood. Add to that the equally perturbing Peace Prize and I've faced a real existential crisis these last six years. Was my life wasted? Exactly how many prizes did I need anyway. Should I be proud as most suggest, or humbled, which was my lifelong value. walking in Gandhi's footsteps and the faith dynamic. And yet to achieve anything in this question of Eidos, I must stand up and be counted. One of a hundred million hopefully.
 
I've described my mindscape: chains of thought branching off and remerging, going in useful circles, sometimes contradictorially. On occasion, entirely distinct domains in performance.
From a conversational standpoint, I find you to be very difficult to track.

Cutting to the chase, I have seen three views on autism (not two),
  1. All autism is bad (Autism Speaks).
  2. All parts of autism are good (radical autistics).
  3. Autism is good (neuro-diversity). Severe co-morbids are bad (just like they are for NTs).
My resources & I take position #3 and unapologetically seek cures and/or prevention for said co-morbids.
 
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Like Crossbreed, I also find it difficult to track the OP's comment stream. It feels like an information dump. Rahere, what are you hoping for here? As to IQ and intellectual level, the subtests have already been mentioned, most people have strengths and weaknesses, and in autistic subjects, the differences between T-scores on the different tests is likely to be greater than the norm.

It seems you might be looking for validation, but for what?

The frequent mention of your scores, Nobel involvement, famous people you have known, is a little off-putting. It tells others "I am special, acknowledge that or don't waste my time." That might be exactly the impression you intend, but it seems lonely.

I'm also a mature adult and at a point in my life where I look back over my own history, with many regrets and a few satisfactions. I'd like to feel like I can connect with you, but it's hard. My very brainy brother is similarly unreachable. In old age (I apply that term to me, but not to you) it feels more important to be able to connect, rather than to impress.
 
Like Crossbreed, I also find it difficult to track the OP's comment stream. It feels like an information dump. Rahere, what are you hoping for here? As to IQ and intellectual level, the subtests have already been mentioned, most people have strengths and weaknesses, and in autistic subjects, the differences between T-scores on the different tests is likely to be greater than the norm.

It seems you might be looking for validation, but for what?

The frequent mention of your scores, Nobel involvement, famous people you have known, is a little off-putting. It tells others "I am special, acknowledge that or don't waste my time." That might be exactly the impression you intend, but it seems lonely.

I'm also a mature adult and at a point in my life where I look back over my own history, with many regrets and a few satisfactions. I'd like to feel like I can connect with you, but it's hard. My very brainy brother is similarly unreachable. In old age (I apply that term to me, but not to you) it feels more important to be able to connect, rather than to impress.

I think @Rahere is raising the issue that the whole area around what is currently described as the autism spectrum has not been properly or fully looked into, and that currently, particularly at what is currently seen as the 'high' end of the spectrum, the situation needs reviewing, particularly with help from people who are allegedly in the category.

He has said he is already working towards this endeavour with an autism organisation, where they are trying to understand what exactly a melt down is, how/why it occurs in relation to the way the brain is functioning. He feels strongly that the current way of understanding things in this area of high functioning autism or whatever it should be called, is incorrect, and that it results in a lack of resourcing and proper education and support for those in the category described.

I find what he is saying really interesting, and although I am having to work hard to understand and follow his points, it's well worth while. He has taken trouble to say a number of times that he is in no way unmindfull of the needs and value of all who are along the spectrum of autism, as it is currently understood, and does not want to detract from any efforts and ways to help where help is needed, however he wants, based on his own experience and others he knows of, to understand and utilise how he is, and how some people can be, better.

He is angry that this has been neglected, and feels let down, and that he and others have much to offer if better understood and valued, rather than being stigmatised. That's what I ve picked up, anyway, very interesting stuff, hope to hear more. I certainly feel that back in the day I could have been more useful than I have been, if better understood, or understood at all, but I spent my life wondering why I am the way I am, and doing lots of therapy. I hope for better for future generations.
 

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