Difference between Stimming and Rituals with No Outcome

[Clueless in Canada]

I've seen the phrase 'rituals with no outcome' pertaining to autism and I am trying to create a mental image of what those look like. How would they differ from stims which are repetitive behaviours and thus could also be seen as rituals? Do you engage in behaviours you would classify as rituals with no outcome? If so please share what those are.

 

[tducey]

For yrs. I have been doing sports stats and inputing it into excel but really haven't gone very far with it.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

For yrs. I have been doing sports stats and inputing it into excel but really haven't gone very far with it.

So it's sort of a ritualistic collecting of information that you don't use but enjoy collecting?

 

[Fino]

Do you have a link to anything on the subject? I can't find anything on "rituals with no outcome".

 

[Suzanne]

I am thinking it is an nt definition. Because, anyone looking on, would think it is rituals without an outcome, as apparently it is mindless.

Was talking with my husband about stimming. He is paranoid that I am faking, since I am stimming a lot more now, after diagnostic. I asked him if he saw me stimming when I was with a social worker and he said that no he did not. Well, if I was "faking" it, would I not be "faking" it in the room with the social worker and he agreed.

Yesterday, I had an uncontroleable need to tap the tip of my fingers on the arm of our sofa and it actually felt uncomfortable, but I had to force myself to stop and then, my other hand took over in a different format. No ritual at all; just a sense of inner peace ( unless it becomes uncomfortable).

 

[Progster]

I don't think I have rituals as such, though I'm not sure what this means either... perhaps it's an OCD thing, where people have to say a number or repeat an action a precise number of times... if it is related to collecting, then yes, I collect things. Stimming for me is automatic, I'm not even aware that I'm doing it and people sometimes mistake it for a tick, but it's not. I think that a ritual would be deliberate.

 

[Gracey]

I’ve heard of the term Rituals connected to OCD.

They are compulsions. A sometimes complex order of action completed in a specific way.

Failure to do so may mean the ritual has to be started again from the very beginning, in the case of interruption and so on.

“With no outcome” I’m not sure of.

Outcome for whom?
The observer or participant?

In this case I’m going to guess at a ritual followed before leaving the house, taking a shower or preparing a meal will be considered different to,

Having to know the number of cracks in certain square meters of pavement or the correct number of bricks supporting a door or window lintel?
Hand washing til fissures appear?

I could be wrong in my guess

 

[Aspie_With_Attitude]

I did a video on "Stimming" a few months back.

And recently rituals.

 

[Tom]

Interesting but what occurs to me is questioning if any rituals have actual outcomes, other then in the mind of the participants?

Perhaps they mean rituals without a specific purpose. But even there I wonder if that is not understanding they often have purpose and effects, such as relieving stress or coping with anxiety, etc.

 

[Peter Morrison]

It's hard for me to put stims and ritualistic actions in the same category. I think of stims as nervous movements - reactions to emotional stress or discomfort. I do these without thinking. I associate ritualistic movements as a particular way something is done - a certain order of actions that becomes the way to complete an every-day, routine action. I believe this is part of my OCD behavior. The order and manner of actions is irrelevant to the achievement of the task, but doing things differently can result in emotional discomfort. If you follow the ritual, you are assured that it is done properly and completely, regardless of how unnecessary it might be. To the person with the OCD condition, the manner of action is reassuring.

I have many stims, and I don't police myself over them. OCD traits in me are mild, but I feel best if I can exercise them. Routine is a comfort for me, so I develop a routine that become more like a ritual - first, second, third, etc. without any reason behind the order of the steps, but I must maintain the order to proceed. Even to me, it is illogical. I think I developed this as a way to fight my ADD. I end up feeling that I don't need to question anything if I do it in the ritualistic way. I'm still unclear about the motivation. These rituals only apply to mundane, routine tasks or actions. I'd love to hear from someone about ASD rituals.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

Do you have a link to anything on the subject? I can't find anything on "rituals with no outcome".

I think it may have been a meme I saw somewhere that purported to list the 'lesser known' traits of autism. Otherwise all I find in a Google search is an explanation of how routine and ritual can be calming or reassuring for autistic people. As my peers used to say when we were in school, 'No Duh!'

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I am thinking it is an nt definition. Because, anyone looking on, would think it is rituals without an outcome, as apparently it is mindless.

Was talking with my husband about stimming. He is paranoid that I am faking, since I am stimming a lot more now, after diagnostic. I asked him if he saw me stimming when I was with a social worker and he said that no he did not. Well, if I was "faking" it, would I not be "faking" it in the room with the social worker and he agreed.

Yesterday, I had an uncontroleable need to tap the tip of my fingers on the arm of our sofa and it actually felt uncomfortable, but I had to force myself to stop and then, my other hand took over in a different format. No ritual at all; just a sense of inner peace ( unless it becomes uncomfortable).

I think so too. It seems it is probably another term for the stimming that we might do regularly, rather than any stims which are a direct response to an emotion or situation. I do a lot of finger twiddling with various versions of it. I do it nearly any time my hands are not occupied. I don't tap on things so much as tap or press my fingers against each other, as well as run my fingernail edges against my thumb repeatedly. My ex husband used to tell me to stop doing this but now that I am not with him and I know I am autistic I let myself do it as much as I want to. I just don't think I would describe it as a ritual. If I have any rituals I am not aware of them and if made aware of them I'd probably think they do have a purpose.

I've had some stims that were uncomfortable at times too. Under stress there are some movements I am compelled to make which are simultaneously a relief to make and also annoying and a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I did a video on "Stimming" a few months back.

And recently rituals.

Thanks for sharing your videos. Certainly stimming and having routines do serve a purpose but I can understand they might appear not to have one from the point of view of an NT onlooker. I'm leaning towards thinking that what is meant by 'rituals that serve no purpose' is routines or performing activities the same way all of the time even if it isn't necessary to getting the job done. Thus it seems also to apply to rigid behaviour.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

It's hard for me to put stims and ritualistic actions in the same category. I think of stims as nervous movements - reactions to emotional stress or discomfort. I do these without thinking. I associate ritualistic movements as a particular way something is done - a certain order of actions that becomes the way to complete an every-day, routine action. I believe this is part of my OCD behavior. The order and manner of actions is irrelevant to the achievement of the task, but doing things differently can result in emotional discomfort. If you follow the ritual, you are assured that it is done properly and completely, regardless of how unnecessary it might be. To the person with the OCD condition, the manner of action is reassuring.

I have many stims, and I don't police myself over them. OCD traits in me are mild, but I feel best if I can exercise them. Routine is a comfort for me, so I develop a routine that become more like a ritual - first, second, third, etc. without any reason behind the order of the steps, but I must maintain the order to proceed. Even to me, it is illogical. I think I developed this as a way to fight my ADD. I end up feeling that I don't need to question anything if I do it in the ritualistic way. I'm still unclear about the motivation. These rituals only apply to mundane, routine tasks or actions. I'd love to hear from someone about ASD rituals.

Thanks for the detailed response. What you say makes sense and I did have the thought that it seemed like an OCD trait and OCD may be a co-occurring condition with autism. I am usually unaware of having rituals or rigid ideas about how something should be done until someone else violates it, either by requiring me to do it differently or by doing it differently themselves but in my home or with my materials. Often this is mundane tasks, as you say. I lived alone for seven years and then my partner moved in with me and it was a difficult adjustment. In all honesty, I have to be medicated to be able to live with someone, then I can be less freaked out about violations.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I’ve heard of the term Rituals connected to OCD.
[/QUOTE

Yes, I associate it with OCD as well. OCD can certainly be a co-occurring condition so maybe that's why it was connected to autism.

 

[Gracey]

I’ve yet to find a boundary between rigid routines in Autism,
And rituals in OCD.
( how it affects the individual when these are interrupted or delayed/prevented)

I’m sure there is one, or it would all be classed as the same thing?
At the moment I’m thinking it’s rationale.

Religions have rituals, athletes might have a preparatory ritual before competing, someone might wear their lucky socks to an interview,

With OCD a therapist might ask ‘well, what would happen if you didn’t’?

(wear lucky socks to an interview? Arrange store cupboards and cutlery in a very specific way or follow a set of ‘rules’ before leaving the house?)

I’ve spoken with some who will say “oh I’ve got OCD” because they like a clean floor and a tidy home.
Nonsense!

I’m going off on a tangent here too, as such I’ve lost my point
I’ll come back to it later.

 

[Peter Morrison]

I am usually unaware of having rituals or rigid ideas about how something should be done until someone else violates it, either by requiring me to do it differently or by doing it differently themselves but in my home or with my materials.

I don't know why we are particular about how we manage our actions, but we do it for a reason. That reason is so that we aren't interrupting our thoughts to go looking for things. Between having the materials and doing the actions of a project, we can't tolerate anything that takes focus away, even if it is minor. I never really understood why, but I always knew I was peculiarly finicky, like a dog protecting his dinner bowl. I, too, need the familiar environment to enjoy a project. I know my own turf and I know my own tools. Anything new, different, or marginally useful seems to be too much for me until I get used to it. I think there is a lot going on to make us this way, not just one influence.

 

[Aspychata]

I just feel a nervous energy, and someone called me on it, oops. The lines are blurring for me, is it a ritual of things l do, l notice l have a feeling of putting my feet in a certain order entering, but leaving l don't care. We probably have a huge suitcase of rituals and stims but l could have been in denial because l also have a huge supply of deny pills. Otc, no scrip needed. Why is painful to discuss this, l feel l am leaving normal and going over to the x-file episodes.....

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I just feel a nervous energy, and someone called me on it, oops. The lines are blurring for me, is it a ritual of things l do, l notice l have a feeling of putting my feet in a certain order entering, but leaving l don't care. We probably have a huge suitcase of rituals and stims but l could have been in denial because l also have a huge supply of deny pills. Otc, no scrip needed. Why is painful to discuss this, l feel l am leaving normal and going over to the x-file episodes.....

I like your image of the huge suitcase of rituals and stims. I'm sure every person has rituals that don't make a lot of sense to someone else.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I’ve yet to find a boundary between rigid routines in Autism,
And rituals in OCD.
( how it affects the individual when these are interrupted or delayed/prevented)

I’m sure there is one, or it would all be classed as the same thing?
At the moment I’m thinking it’s rationale.

Religions have rituals, athletes might have a preparatory ritual before competing, someone might wear their lucky socks to an interview,

With OCD a therapist might ask ‘well, what would happen if you didn’t’?

(wear lucky socks to an interview? Arrange store cupboards and cutlery in a very specific way or follow a set of ‘rules’ before leaving the house?)

I’ve spoken with some who will say “oh I’ve got OCD” because they like a clean floor and a tidy home.
Nonsense!

I’m going off on a tangent here too, as such I’ve lost my point
I’ll come back to it later.

It's annoying when people use mental health issues as a joke or to describe their relatively 'normal' behaviour. It's just my OCD or ADHD or she's off her meds-all expressions that annoy me unless they are being used literally.

I certainly have routines and rigid behaviours and rigid ideas/expectations and I am fussier than most people I know about cleanliness and germs but I'm not OCD and I am inconsistent too. Like you, I can't quite figure out where that boundary is. It seems a person can be one or both-OC and/or Autistic-perhaps a ritual can be performed once by an Autistic person and the person can move on whereas for someone who is Obsessive Compulsive they can become stuck performing the ritual and unable to move on or have to perform the ritual so many times in a day it is difficult to do other things.

I think the wording 'no outcome' bugs me. Maybe the outcome is invisible, and is something like comfort.