Concerns with sharing and personal space

[MBSeirra]

I apologize if this is not in the right place. Although I’ve had an account for a couple of years, I’ve only spent a little time on the forum and have trouble understanding the forum hierarchy and organization (also on mobile).

So I have a 12 year old daughter, diagnosed ASD who has always had a significant issue with sharing. She cannot appreciate the value in sharing anything. She also has a problem with personal space. Her younger brother cannot sit in her chair at the kitchen bar, or in her seat on her side of the car, or read any books that belong to her. As an example, there is a book that was bought for her that her brother has interest in reading. She will not accept that he be allowed to read it and then return it to her. She would rather give it up entirely. She becomes hysterical if the issue is pushed far enough but will never conced the point. This specific example can be applied to just about anything that belongs to her.

I will admit that I have winked at some of this type of behavior as an older sister to a younger brother and there will naturally be issues. However, her issues with her brother go above and beyond of course. She is high-functioning and goes to regular school mostly without any exceptions. Socially awkward of course, but witty, intelligent, funny, sarcastic. I can see us getting by without addressing this but it really could be improved and she would be better off for it. I would love to see her have an appreciation for her brother in general, but that may be too much to hope for. We have attempted therapy of course but never been comfortable anywhere. I would like to attempt some techniques myself that perhaps others have used, as I am not imaginative enough to come up with anything that works so far.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Starfire]

Have you tried starting with a temporary swap so she doesn’t feel that she is losing something such as a book? If she has something tangible in her hand that she is interested in, and it is a guarantee that her book will be returned or she keeps something she likes instead as collateral then it might be the first step. This has worked with my 15 year old daughter who has ASD. I make sure there is a time frame too such as “can your sister lend this book for one week and you can.......” make it an exchange rather than one way to start with.

 

[Progster]

I think that when you give her new things that are to be shared with her brother, you need to make it clear to her from that start that the item is to be shared. Make a rule, like on Saturday, she has it, and on Sunday her brother has it. Rules like tht worked with me as a child, but if someone ever tried to take an item from me without this being clear, I would get very upset and not accept it.

 

[Aspychata]

Think this is a excellent idea. l would address the root of the problem, give her a section of space where those are her favorite books or favs things and those are off limits so that she has a feel of ownership in her personal possessions, its not that she doesn't share, she needs to have control over her things that give her enjoyment. Hope you see this is a departure from what you are perceiving.

 

[Oldlady]

I'm not sure if this will help, but my youngest daughter was quite delayed in her emotional maturity. Perhaps treating her as if she were younger and giving her that same sort of guidance that you would a younger person will help?

 

[MBSeirra]

Starfire, I like your idea of collateral. That might be something to try. My concern is that many times it seems that she seems as though items become tainted when another such as her brother has them, even though he isn’t a dirty child by any means. And there have been times in the past where he damaged or broke something of hers and I know that this causes a great deal of anxiety for her.

 

[MBSeirra]

I think that when you give her new things that are to be shared with her brother, you need to make it clear to her from that start that the item is to be shared. Make a rule, like on Saturday, she has it, and on Sunday her brother has it. Rules like tht worked with me as a child, but if someone ever tried to take an item from me without this being clear, I would get very upset and not accept it.

As of now this would never be accepted. Things are either hers or not hers. There is no timesharing/joint ownership of anything. And she will hold to that standard. Even if it is something that she is very interested in- like this book for example. She’s very interested in wildlife, and her mother bought her a nice Nat Geo book that was pretty expensive, not thinking that our son is coming into the age where he also reads. He has seen this book from a distance and expressed interest in reading it. That cannot be allowed because it is hers. And if we allow our son to read it then she will relinquish ownership and not want it back. This has happened before with other items. That’s how stubborn she is. She will hold her ground, but it will also cause her a great deal of pain which she internalizes and stews over.

 

[Aspychata]

Raised a daughter, it's hard work, lol. Hoping she can find a outside activity if finances will allow it. My daughter did ice skating and a lot of art. She is still involved with this in college. Maybe something to help her with her sense of identity and that will give her confidence so that the brother issue will fade. You are a great mom l bet. My daughter fell in the spectrum but l thought she was normal because we were similar. l thought nothing of her watching the Wizard of Oz 20 times in one day at 4 years old, by 1st grade, taking several weeks to write a story about Super Kitty who wore a cape seemed perfectly natural. At 16, we spent four hours on her birthday cake, fancy frosting, cake was a teepot.

 

[MBSeirra]

Think this is a excellent idea. l would address the root of the problem, give her a section of space where those are her favorite books or favs things and those are off limits so that she has a feel of ownership in her personal possessions, its not that she doesn't share, she needs to have control over her things that give her enjoyment. Hope you see this is a departure from what you are perceiving.

Aspychata, everything in her room is off-limits already. I feel that it is important for her to have her own space, and she certainly has that. I do feel however, that it should not have to upend her world when something is borrowed such as a book, toy, etc. Her brother already knows never to go into her room or touch her things. He probably knows that she would attack him, and I have no doubt that she actually would. Her issues do seem to mainly focus on him though. She was an only child for five years. And I think the lack of diagnosis at a young age probably did her a disservice.

 

[MBSeirra]

Raised a daughter, it's hard work, lol. Hoping she can find a outside activity if finances will allow it. My daughter did ice skating and a lot of art. She is still involved with this in college. Maybe something to help her with her sense of identity and that will give her confidence so that the brother issue will fade. You are a great mom l bet. My daughter fell in the spectrum but l thought she was normal because we were similar. l thought nothing of her watching the Wizard of Oz 20 times in one day at 4 years old, by 1st grade, taking several weeks to write a story about Super Kitty who wore a cape seemed perfectly natural. At 16, we spent four hours on her birthday cake, fancy frosting, cake was a teepot.

Actually, I’m her dad. Lol. But she definitely needs some extra-curricular activities to build that confidence and life experience up. Her mom is also on the spectrum, and unfortunately my job keeps me away for extended periods. It hurts the continuity and family dynamic, me coming and going. She and I are remarkably similar in many ways, but I have difficulty relating with things like this of course. Her mother, being on the spectrum, surprisingly seems even less able to deal with her peculiarities. She is very art-centric. Reads a ton, and likes to draw and write stories. I need to get her plugged into something in that spectrum.

 

[Fino]

Sorry if this is bad or rude or anything at all but from what I've read here:

Just don't make her share anything that's been mentioned so far. I don't see why she should have to. And now that you know, stop buying her things you expect her to share.

 

[Peter Morrison]

I was territorial as a child, and I am still this way when it comes to people using my things. My issue was needing to be certain that my things were in the place where I put them. When they were borrowed, or taken and used, they wouldn't always be put back as I requested. This would send me into orbit. I was constantly fighting the ability to maintain order in my environment, so other people touching my things represented ruining the order. I was also very careful with my things, more so than most kids, and I didn't trust that others wouldn't lose something or put them back improperly. I didn't have a problem with sharing - joint activity and group fun. I worried that my things would not be handled with care as I cherished everything and preferred that my things not be marred in any way. I know this behavior was excessively neurotic, but I had learned that other people don't take the same care and responsibility with borrowed items. The issue with your daughter may be somewhat similar. Learning to share is very important, but her need to protect her things is also valid. It takes time to learn the proper boundaries. For me, it was feeling assured that my things were available to me when I needed them and that they are in perfect working order all the time.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

I've always wondered why we push children to share things so much. I think we ask children to share more than adults are expected to share though I realise this can be a result of parents with more than one child and a limited budget. I don't like to share anything that really means something to me and if I do share it is a sign that the person I am sharing with has earned my trust or it is someone I love. I am certainly not a child psychologist though I've raised a child and was an elementary school teacher for twenty years. Learning to share is not likely to develop if she has such bad experiences. Her thinking is black and white: mine and not mine. Does she leave alone the things she views as not hers?

Sharing is really a form of empathy, understanding that someone else has the same needs and wants. It contributes to human survival so it has been favoured by evolution. It's a concept that may take her longer to learn to handle so maybe the best strategy is to just leave her with fewer things but things that are definitely hers. Other than financial reasons, there is no reason I can think of why she and her brother could not each have their own copy of the same book.

 

[MBSeirra]

I was territorial as a child, and I am still this way when it comes to people using my things. My issue was needing to be certain that my things were in the place where I put them. When they were borrowed, or taken and used, they wouldn't always be put back as I requested. This would send me into orbit. I was constantly fighting the ability to maintain order in my environment, so other people touching my things represented ruining the order. I was also very careful with my things, more so than most kids, and I didn't trust that others wouldn't lose something or put them back improperly. I didn't have a problem with sharing - joint activity and group fun. I worried that my things would not be handled with care as I cherished everything and preferred that my things not be marred in any way. I know this behavior was excessively neurotic, but I had learned that other people don't take the same care and responsibility with borrowed items. The issue with your daughter may be somewhat similar. Learning to share is very important, but her need to protect her things is also valid. It takes time to learn the proper boundaries. For me, it was feeling assured that my things were available to me when I needed them and that they are in perfect working order all the time.

Mr. Morrison, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head precisely. Controlling her environment is very important to her, she does have a significant anxiety about her things being properly cared for. I appreciate that, and I don’t want people to think I am unreasonably asking for things.

And I hear what some others are saying, which seems basically “don’t make her share,” which is certainly a technique. And honestly it may come to that, and then whatever issues she has will simply be hers to deal with later on. I understand that sharing isn’t really a thing so much when we are older, but to me it’s much more about having the ability to take things in stride and not get so hung up on that control that it paralyzes her. Also being the husband of an ASD wife, I see this in her and I would love to train my daughter to compensate for these emotions so that she has the ability to see past what essentially are the little things and move on with her life. It may be too much to hope for, but I have a responsibility as her parent to prepare her as best as I can, and it’s not something I want to simply give up on because it’s the easier decision for now. I understand that it will cause her some discomfort, but if the payoff for her is there in the long run I am okay with that.

 

[Fino]

Your plan is to teach someone with Autism to "take things in stride"?

Can anyone here attest to that being a possibility?

 

[MBSeirra]

Your plan is to teach someone with Autism to "take things in stride"?

Can anyone here attest to that being a possibility?

Fino, surely you can understand that it was simply an expression. And I am also certain that you are aware that there is an autism “spectrum” which encompasses and entire range of the disorder, as we know it. If you care to read my initial post you will see that while my daughter is indeed on the spectrum, she is higher functioning and generally has a somewhat normal life. And yes, I do hope for her to be able to learn to adapt to adverse situations. I feel that this is a most valuable life skill. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Fino]

Fino, surely you can understand that it was simply an expression. And I am also certain that you are aware that there is an autism “spectrum” which encompasses and entire range of the disorder, as we know it. If you care to read my initial post you will see that while my daughter is indeed on the spectrum, she is higher functioning and generally has a somewhat normal life. And yes, I do hope for her to be able to learn to adapt to adverse situations. I feel that this is a most valuable life skill. Wouldn’t you agree?

1. I didn't consider at all that it was an expression, or, if it was, that it being an expression would affect its meaning with any relevance.

2. If my either of my questions seemed rhetorical or seemed to imply anything beyond their direct meaning, then I conveyed myself not as I intended. I intended to clarify whether or not that was your goal and I intended, out of genuine curiosity, to ask if anyone here had experience with that being successful. I also considered editing the post to add that I want to learn how to do that, with a joke about at what dosage of Valium would I would attempt that at, but I ended up not doing it, obviously.

3. I am also higher functioning and generally have a somewhat normal life. I'm not entirely sure if that has anything to do with rigidity. I'm almost inclined to believe it's a point against it.

4. I do agree! Not just a valuable life skill, but something which would make happiness a heck of a lot easier to maintain.

Oh, and if any of the above doesn't seem to logically respond to something you said, then I misunderstood you. That feels like a possibility at the moment.

 

[Starfire]

My concern is that many times it seems that she seems as though items become tainted when another such as her brother has them, even though he isn’t a dirty child by any means.

I understand that, we have often heard similar or the usual is “I don’t want it now, she has contaminated it!”

I’m interested to know something, does it work both ways with your daughter? What I mean is my eldest sees nothing wrong in helping herself to other people’s things if “no one was using it”, “I needed it”, “it’s not a big deal, it’s not deep etc” however like your child, she will have a major meltdown if anyone else borrowed or used something belonging to her for the same reason.

This strikes me as not only unreasonable but hypocritical. Just to be clear I’m not talking about prized possessions here or meaningful objects with sentimental value, that’s different. I’m talking about a pen, phone charger cable, a book she grew out of a few years ago and has no value to her etc, the expression ‘dog in a manger’ comes into play here. Of course much of this could be simply sibling rivalry I realise however her sister is happy to share, lend or trade.

I see what others are saying about why should children be made to share, but I think it is important for children with ASD to learn, or at least experience the concept of sharing at home in a safe environment where meltdowns can be handled safely. While a child may be able to control the environment of their room and possessions to some degree, once they are in a different environment things change.

At school, or work, a friends house etc things are different. Some people share and think nothing of it, and some people take what doesn’t belong to them and when confronted act offended and patronise with “I’m only borrowing it!” It’s not right but it does and will happen. A child with little or no experience of sharing is likely to be overwhelmed or incredulous to such common behaviour in the NT world. I do therefore think IMO it’s important to acclimatise and prepare children for sharing and other behaviours because while they don’t have to like it, they need to be able to cope with it when it happens, and like it or not it will happen!

 

[Progster]

I think we ask children to share more than adults are expected to share though I realise this can be a result of parents with more than one child and a limited budget.

In my family this was most certainly the case, especially with the more expensive toys, we were 4 kids and my parents simply couldn't afford to buy us all duplicate sets of toys, there we some things we just had to share. We were told that we could have a record player, for example under the condition that it was to be shared, this was the condition under which the item was bought and we had to accept it or not have it at all. If my parents had bought me the record player for Christmas and then told me afterwards that I had to share, then I would never have accepted it, because they are changing the conditions.

I do therefore think IMO it’s important to acclimatise and prepare children for sharing and other behaviours because while they don’t have to like it, they need to be able to cope with it when it happens, and like it or not it will happen!

Totally agree with this - which is why, in my previous post, I wrote that it has to be made clear from the outset that an item is to be shared, before it is bought and not afterwards, as a condition for its purchase.

 

[Starfire]

In my family this was most certainly the case, especially with the more expensive toys, we were 4 kids and my parents simply couldn't afford to buy us all duplicate sets of toys, there we some things we just had to share. We were told that we could have a record player, for example under the condition that it was to be shared, this was the condition under which the item was bought and we had to accept it or not have it at all.

That’s how it was for me too, and buying duplicates isn’t practical even if the money was there, which it wasn’t and isn’t.

Duplicates causes a new set of problems such as “that’s mine” and the predictable answer “no it’s not.”

Writing a name on or marking a possession would be unacceptable to my daughter as it would then be spoiled, or seen as damaged in some way as it wouldn’t be pristine anymore. That would be worse than not having it at all!

I don’t have the time or energy to engage in petty squabbles about which duplicate belongs to whom. I’m also not going to indulge or encourage such behaviour. As @Progster said some things are to share like it or not, such as the family TV or an Xbox and some things belong to you to do as you choose. Parameters and terms must be agreed beforehand on shared items that is fair and reasonable, if they cannot be agreed upon, it doesn’t happen and that’s just tough!

Even having said that, while they both agreed to sharing the Xbox before it was bought, the two controller things had to be different colours as my eldest wouldn’t touch her sisters. She also insisted on separating accounts and not sharing games or any purchases!