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Bright girls and women,

Mia

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
And if Aspie girls didn't have enough difficulties;

  • The Trouble With Bright Girls
    For women, ability doesn’t always lead to confidence. Here’s why.

    Successful women know only too well that in any male-dominated profession, we often find ourselves at a distinct disadvantage. We are routinely underestimated, underutilized, and even underpaid. Studies show that women need to perform at extraordinarily high levels, just to appear moderately competent compared to our male coworkers. (I don't find this to be true in all professions though)

    But in my experience, smart and talented women rarely realize that one of the toughest hurdles they'll have to overcome to be successful lies within. We judge our own abilities not only more harshly, but fundamentally differently, than men do. Understanding why we do it is the first step to righting a terrible wrong. And to do that, we need to take a step back in time.

    Chances are good that if you are a successful professional today, you were a pretty bright fifth grade girl. My graduate advisor, psychologist Carol Dweck (author of Mindset) conducted a series of studies in the 1980s, looking at how bright girls and boys in the fifth grade handled new, difficult and confusing material.

    She found that bright girls, when given something to learn that was particularly foreign or complex, were quick to give up--and the higher the girls' IQ, the more likely they were to throw in the towel. In fact, the straight-A girls showed the most helpless responses. Bright boys, on the other hand, saw the difficult material as a challenge, and found it energizing. They were more likely to redouble their efforts, rather than give up.
    Why does this happen? What makes smart girls more vulnerable, and less confident, when they should be the most confident kids in the room? At the 5th grade level, girls routinely outperform boys in every subject, including math and science. So there were no differences between these boys and girls in ability, nor in past history of success. The only difference was how bright boys and girls interpreted difficulty--what it meant to them when material seemed hard to learn. Bright girls were much quicker to doubt their ability, to lose confidence, and to become less effective learners as a result.

    Researchers have uncovered the reason for this difference in how difficulty is interpreted, and it is simply this: more often than not, bright girls believe that their abilities are innate and unchangeable, while bright boys believe that they can develop ability through effort and practice.

    How do girls and boys develop these different views? Most likely, it has to do with the kinds of feedback we get from parents and teachers as young children. Girls, who develop self-control earlier and are better able to follow instructions, are often praised for their "goodness." When we do well in school, we are told that we are "so smart," "so clever, " or " such a good student." This kind of praise implies that traits like smartness, cleverness, and goodness are qualities you either have or you don't.

    Boys, on the other hand, are a handful. Just trying to get boys to sit still and pay attention is a real challenge for any parent or teacher. As a result, boys are given a lot more feedback that emphasizes effort (e.g., "If you would just pay attention you could learn this," "If you would just try a little harder you could get it right.") The net result: When learning something new is truly difficult, girls take it as sign that they aren't "good" and "smart", and boys take it as a sign to pay attention and try harder.

    We continue to carry these beliefs, often unconsciously, around with us throughout our lives. And because bright girls are particularly likely to see their abilities as innate and unchangeable, they grow up to be women who are far too hard on themselves--women who will prematurely conclude that they don't have what it takes to succeed in a particular arena, and give up way too soon.

    Even if every external disadvantage to a woman's rising to the top of an organization is removed--every inequality of opportunity, every chauvinistic stereotype, all the challenges we face balancing work and family--we would still have to deal with the fact that through our mistaken beliefs about our abilities, we may be our own worst enemy.

    How often have you found yourself avoiding challenges and playing it safe, sticking to goals you knew would be easy for you to reach? Are there things you decided long ago that you could never be good at? Skills you believed you would never possess? If the list is a long one, you were probably one of the Bright Girls--and your belief that you are "stuck" being exactly as you are has done more to determine the course of your life than you probably ever imagined. Which would be fine, if your abilities were innate and unchangeable. Only they're not.

    No matter the ability--whether it's intelligence, creativity, self-control, charm, or athleticism--studies show them to be profoundly malleable. When it comes to mastering any skill, your experience, effort, and persistence matter a lot. So if you were a Bright Girl, it's time to toss out your (mistaken) belief about how ability works, embrace the fact that you can always improve, and reclaim the confidence to tackle any challenge that you lost so long ago.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-success/201101/the-trouble-bright-girls
    Post published by Heidi Grant Halvorson Ph.D. on Jan 27, 2011 in The Science of Success
 
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Interesting...

For me, it's not really giving up. It needs to simmer. I'll read until I'm cross-eyed, then let it sit alone for a while as I process it. Then keep coming back to it until it makes sense. I sucked at trigonometry in highschool, but did pretty good in college. Even tutored a few people.
 
"Researchers have uncovered the reason for this difference in how difficulty is interpreted, and it is simply this: more often than not, bright girls believe that their abilities are innate and unchangeable, while bright boys believe that they can develop ability through effort and practice. "

I don't know as how being female had anything to do with it, but
when I was a girl, my parents certainly gave me the idea that a
person was just 'good' at some things or wasn't 'good' at them.

Like good at art, or math, or English. And if you weren't 'good'
at it, that was too bad, but just the way it was.

I could ask my boy cousins what they heard. [It seems like it
wouldn't be a valid comparison because they had different parents.]
Surely the different point of view doesn't arise purely from gender
difference. It must be learned...from someone.
 
"Researchers have uncovered the reason for this difference in how difficulty is interpreted, and it is simply this: more often than not, bright girls believe that their abilities are innate and unchangeable, while bright boys believe that they can develop ability through effort and practice. "

I don't know as how being female had anything to do with it, but
when I was a girl, my parents certainly gave me the idea that a
person was just 'good' at some things or wasn't 'good' at them.

Like good at art, or math, or English. And if you weren't 'good'
at it, that was too bad, but just the way it was.

I could ask my boy cousins what they heard. [It seems like it
wouldn't be a valid comparison because they had different parents.]
Surely the different point of view doesn't arise purely from gender
difference. It must be learned...from someone.

I'll suggest that it's learned from parents and teachers, who hope that well-behaved girls won't change, while badly behaved boys must change, and well-behaved boys must be rewarded with well-behaved girls. Adults hate change, and children, inevitably, change, so they try to control it as best they can. I realize it doesn't entirely make sense, but it seems to be true based on my own observations of the schoolyard.
 
There was certainly no "poor little girl just can't do it" attitudes in our house growing up. An inability to do anything was treated as laziness and lack of application or determination, and with plenty of quality checks in the process. Makes for a great work ethic and thorough study habit, but ain't so good when there's an actual short-coming. I didn't have much by the way of physical strength and that lead to plenty of complications. o_O
 
There is a lot of training for kids in 'roles', as defined in the current society. I would say I believe there is also some natural tendencies at work. Right out of the box, boys and girls do tend to have differences. I also would guess this is to some degree the result of roles/selective breeding over the millenia.

So in short we have differences, but it is changeable. An individual can be prepared for a role by training and experience and over time a gender might even change if new selection processes take hold or even as a result of doing the new role. (One recent DNA experiment showed genetic changes in a single generation when the parents were exposed to traumatic experiences.)

I am simplifying but to get a more 'boyish' result, doing boyish things and training are a place to start, though there may be a more scientific method. Typical boy games and activities, sports, the military, etc.

There is always a certain ammount of women naturally inclined towards this, the 'Tomboy' and female cop or soldier. Some are pushed in that direction by parents. I know from experience in life and the military that the end result is as effective as anything men can produce.

(added - I have mainly described a process that leads a female towards the traditionally male dominated professions of arms, but think it is analogous to other professions, whether it is business or science, etc.)
 
Interesting...

For me, it's not really giving up. It needs to simmer. I'll read until I'm cross-eyed, then let it sit alone for a while as I process it. Then keep coming back to it until it makes sense. I sucked at trigonometry in highschool, but did pretty good in college. Even tutored a few people.
I know exactly what you mean :D For me this is what I do when given a problem to solve. However when I'm being given the theory of stuff, at least in science, I've always been quicker to understand it tan others, and was often the first to understand in class, something which remains true. I don't think others necessarily understand how I can be so slow with a problem though. It was frustrating because later on, in A levels, my maths lessons would be mostly based on the teacher explaining everything thoroughly and only giving us a small number of problems, so I'd get bored. But in further maths lessons, because of fewer hours per week on it, teachers went through explanations and theory very quickly and we then spent much of the lesson answering questions in silence, which was horrifying for me because it gave me no real advantage to understand things quickly and a real disadvantage always having mountains of homework and problems to solve. The lessons were every two weeks as well so of course I found it difficult to organise myself when it came to having lots of problems to solve over two weeks and would usually do them the night before. No mean feat when it was often 8 pages of questions!!!
 
There was certainly no "poor little girl just can't do it" attitudes in our house growing up. An inability to do anything was treated as laziness and lack of application or determination, and with plenty of quality checks in the process. Makes for a great work ethic and thorough study habit, but ain't so good when there's an actual short-coming. I didn't have much by the way of physical strength and that lead to plenty of complications. o_O

I miss reading AsheSkyler 's posts.
 
I can see some of this being relevant in my case. I am forever having to calm down and repeat, mantra-like, that I will get better with practice. It STILL shocks me when I have to do something a second, or third, time to get it. I am so used to doing things once and aceing them. I am by no means a naturally talented truck mechanic, by I am determined to become a trusted one. This job is teaching me a host of skills I've underrated, such as persistence, patience, deepbreathing, lateral thinking using one's body as a tool, and less clumsy coordination.

A lot has to do with me gravitating to things I found easy, such as social sciences and humanities. I was praised for things I did with ease, and put down for things requiring the skills I mentioned above. No one guided me into addressing my weaknesses. That requires aytention, time and long term committment. No one in my family had that and I moved school every 6-18mths.

Anyway, I am addressing all my deficits now and LOVING it. I do feel that perserverence etc is necessary to teach females, in all realms of life.
 

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