Bogus Study? What Do You Think?

[Shamar]

I came across this study, and was disturbed. Link below.

Neurotypical and Autism Study

In essence, they heard "reports" that neurotypicals are biased against people with autism. They studied reactions to neurotypical and autistic people. They were surprised to find a statistically significant bias. They pretty much state at the beginning they did not think it was true. It appears that NOWHERE in the study did they ask ANY autistic people about any of this.

This appears to be one of those studies that was unnecessary if they had just asked the people subject to the supposed bias. Once again, our opinions are ignored and we have been marginalized. I intend to write to the authors and tell them this.

Perhaps their next study can investigate reports that women appear to get pregnant more frequently than men, and why this seems to happen.

 

[Outdated]

Years ago I knew a professional statistician running his own quite successful business. He said whenever a client asked him to do a survey on public opinion he always asked them what result they would like to achieve, then he'd plan out how to conduct a survey in order to give the result the client wanted.

He said it usually wasn't that difficult. What questions you ask, how you ask those questions, and who you asked questions of. Work that out first and the rest is easy.

 

[TBRS1]

I would be much more interested in a study about how autistic people react to other autistic people.

We all know that the standards used by allistic people (for example: avoiding eye contact means dishonest, or guilty, or submissive, or something along those lines) are inaccurate when applied to autistic people.

But do autistic people use the same standard on other autistic people, even when they know that such standards, applied to themselves, are invalid?

Or, to put it another way, are autistic people biased against other autistic people in the same way that allistic people are biased against autistic people?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I came across this study, and was disturbed. Link below.

Neurotypical and Autism Study

In essence, they heard "reports" that neurotypicals are biased against people with autism. They studied reactions to neurotypical and autistic people. They were surprised to find a statistically significant bias. They pretty much state at the beginning they did not think it was true. It appears that NOWHERE in the study did they ask ANY autistic people about any of this.

This appears to be one of those studies that was unnecessary if they had just asked the people subject to the supposed bias. Once again, our opinions are ignored and we have been marginalized. I intend to write to the authors and tell them this.

Perhaps their next study can investigate reports that women appear to get pregnant more frequently than men, and why this seems to happen.

Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments - PMC

AI Overview


Based on scientific studies, neurotypical humans often demonstrate less favorable reactions and social interest towards individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD)
.
Here's a breakdown of how these reactions are demonstrated:

• Less favorable first impressions:
  • Neurotypical individuals tend to rate autistic individuals as more awkward, less attractive, less dominant, and less likeable compared to other neurotypical people, based on thin slices of real-world social behavior (even as short as a few seconds).
  • These less favorable impressions are robust and persist across different age groups (children and adults) and presentation modalities (video, audio-visual, video-only, audio-only, and even static images), except possibly transcripts of conversations, according to a 2017 study published in Nature.
  • One study found that neurotypical individuals were more likely to explicitly state they disliked autistic individuals compared to non-autistic individuals. This explicit dislike was frequently attributed to perceived awkwardness and a lack of empathy on the part of the autistic individual.
• Reduced willingness to interact:
  • Neurotypical individuals report being less willing to engage in social interaction with autistic individuals, such as sitting near them, starting a conversation, or hanging out with them.
  • This reluctance to interact can significantly impact the social experiences of autistic individuals, potentially limiting their opportunities to develop social skills and form friendships.
• Influence of social presentation style:
  • A significant driver of negative first impressions appears to be the style of social presentation (e.g., non-verbal cues like facial expressions and gestures, as well as vocal prosody) rather than the content of the interaction.
  • Visual and auditory cues, in particular, seem to play a major role in shaping these impressions.
• Impact of diagnostic disclosure and knowledge:
  • First impressions of autistic adults generally improve when neurotypical individuals are made aware of their diagnosis.
  • Greater knowledge about autism and positive past experiences with autistic people are associated with more favorable first impressions and greater acceptance among neurotypical individuals.
  • However, diagnostic disclosure can worsen impressions made by neurotypical raters who hold high levels of stigma towards autism.
• The "double empathy problem":
  • Difficulties in social interaction between autistic and neurotypical individuals can be a bidirectional problem.
  • Neurotypical individuals may also struggle to accurately interpret the mental states of autistic individuals, contributing to misunderstandings and difficulties in social interactions.

In conclusion, research indicates that neurotypical individuals tend to form less positive first impressions of autistic individuals and demonstrate reduced social interest based on subtle social cues. These findings highlight the need to address neurotypical perceptions and biases to promote greater understanding and inclusion of autistic individuals within society.

 

[Outdated]

But do autistic people use the same standard on other autistic people, even when they know that such standards, applied to themselves, are invalid?

As an autistic man that was always quite social and conforms to regular social convention, yes.

The few times I've sat in a room full of people that can't look at each other and barely speak it made me feel uncomfortable. They also tend to have body language that says "leave me alone" and so that's what I tend to do.

It's a phenomena I'm still very curious about because there seems to be a very real generational divide. Why is this so much more common in the younger generations than it is for people from my era?

The fact that there is this divide suggests that this social anxiety is not in fact a part of autism but is instead a comorbity. There's a lot of differences between the way my generation grew up and how things are done now, and it's unlikely to be caused by any one individual circumstance. It's more likely a combination of factors.

I think one of the bigger factors will be day care centres. Kids are basically crowded in with other kids all day from before they're even able to walk, learning social convention from other inmates instead of from responsible parents. Then they go from early childhood day care centres in to school, with before school and after school care so that's basically their life for 12 hours a day.

When I was little there was no day care centre, Mum stayed home until I was 5 and my sister was 6. Before I started school there was kindergarten twice a week and I spent most of my time at home playing with my sister. From age 5 Mum went back to work and we were both in primary school, we used to walk to school and walk home to an empty house and look after ourselves.

I think that might play a role in the way that a lot of people with extreme social anxiety also seem to suffer extreme loneliness, even though the two conditions seem to contradict each other. Because as small children they never had time alone to find out how to enjoy it.

Another different factor when I was little was how early we were given responsibility and had to talk to adults outside of our own family. From age 5 we'd get sent to the corner shop to buy bread and milk and we'd get sent on errands to give messages to neighbours. I think learning how to socialise and communicate at such an early age plays a big role. If a day care centre tried doing that they'd be shut down and in court.

 

[Shamar]

Years ago I knew a professional statistician running his own quite successful business. He said whenever a client asked him to do a survey on public opinion he always asked them what result they would like to achieve, then he'd plan out how to conduct a survey in order to give the result the client wanted.

He said it usually wasn't that difficult. What questions you ask, how you ask those questions, and who you asked questions of. Work that out first and the rest is easy.

Exactly. When in college, I did an informal poll on a current hot topic (airline security and cost). I was able to get an overwhelming response on one side of the topic, and an overwhelming response on the opposite side, depending on the way the question was asked. The funny thing was, the opposite opinions were from THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE!!

 

[Ken]

I came across this study, and was disturbed. Link below.

Neurotypical and Autism Study

In essence, they heard "reports" that neurotypicals are biased against people with autism. They studied reactions to neurotypical and autistic people. They were surprised to find a statistically significant bias.

Yep, I would call it bogus.

The study self confirmed the bias it was looking for by not questing autistic people equally with Non autistics. Thus, the study itself is biased.

Unfortunately, these failings are very common.

 

[Masked Man]

This is a poor study.

Small sample size made up of mostly young college aged women. The targets were only men. They watched videos that were only 7 seconds long.

Women are naturally more risk-adverse - they are smaller, not as physically strong as compared to the average man. It is reasonable that they would shy away from a man who does not fall within what they would consider to be "normal" whatever that would be. But again, how much information can one get from 1. watching a video; and 2. a video that only lasts 7 seconds?

At best, the researcher might suggest what sort of first impression an autistic man might have on young women, but I would say "like or dislike" is a stretch here.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

I would be much more interested in a study about how autistic people react to other autistic people.

We all know that the standards used by allistic people (for example: avoiding eye contact means dishonest, or guilty, or submissive, or something along those lines) are inaccurate when applied to autistic people.

But do autistic people use the same standard on other autistic people, even when they know that such standards, applied to themselves, are invalid?

Or, to put it another way, are autistic people biased against other autistic people in the same way that allistic people are biased against autistic people?

Even though others will probably be unhappy with me - I think autistic people react this way to other autists if the other autist is less capable.

I base this on more than 20 years of observation and working with people with autism, most of whom are what would be considered level 2 and level 3 now. The level 2s were not interested in interacting with the level 3s.

I've also seen on forums where points of view posted by high functioning autists - and let's face it, if you are sitting in front of a computer and writing in complete sentences and paragraphs that make sense, you are not level 3 and probably not level 2 - (I know, Outdated, you were evaluated at level 2. So obviously some level 2s as assessed in Australia are high functioning) - express opinions that do not take 2s and 3s into account. Comments such as "Anyone (with autism) would know not to do X" or something like that. (I know that's not the best example, but I don't keep a record of these.) These statements completely dismiss the experiences of people with fewer capabilities.

Am I tender on this topic? Yes, I am, because I spent more than 20 years advocating for the rights of "lower functioning" people and it hits close to home.

This isn't something I want to argue about. I just wish all of us would take into consideration those of us who have more struggles coping in the this NT dominated world.

 

[TBRS1]

Even though others will probably be unhappy with me - I think autistic people react this way to other autists if the other autist is less capable.

I base this on more than 20 years of observation and working with people with autism, most of whom are what would be considered level 2 and level 3 now. The level 2s were not interested in interacting with the level 3s.

I've also seen on forums where points of view posted by high functioning autists - and let's face it, if you are sitting in front of a computer and writing in complete sentences and paragraphs that make sense, you are not level 3 and probably not level 2 - (I know, Outdated, you were evaluated at level 2. So obviously some level 2s as assessed in Australia are high functioning) - express opinions that do not take 2s and 3s into account. Comments such as "Anyone (with autism) would know not to do X" or something like that. (I know that's not the best example, but I don't keep a record of these.) These statements completely dismiss the experiences of people with fewer capabilities.

Am I tender on this topic? Yes, I am, because I spent more than 20 years advocating for the rights of "lower functioning" people and it hits close to home.

This isn't something I want to argue about. I just wish all of us would take into consideration those of us who have more struggles coping in the this NT dominated world.

This would have been my hypothesis. It's a sad true thing, though, as your observations show.

I will admit that this is my personal experience - that at one time I did that (I did not know at the time that I was autistic). When I became a teacher and began to work with many different students, I started to know students with difficulties much better, and I don't do that judging thing any more (mostly).

 

[DeFunkCat]

Years ago I knew a professional statistician running his own quite successful business. He said whenever a client asked him to do a survey on public opinion he always asked them what result they would like to achieve, then he'd plan out how to conduct a survey in order to give the result the client wanted.

He said it usually wasn't that difficult. What questions you ask, how you ask those questions, and who you asked questions of. Work that out first and the rest is easy.

 

[DeFunkCat]

my undergrad had a mandatory text. How to lie with statistics. When looking at surveys and comments based on surveys I often look for the surveys research parameters and base data. Sometimes the number of people surveyed can be a low as 10!