Autism DSM 5 ICD 11 Special interest validity basis?

[Rachie]

I would like to sort this out for myself and pin this theory down.
Special interest is this some term that has come about and been drummed up online etc and not actually used in the profession.
Now it is an interest, special interest or restricted interest.

It can be difficult to get actual definitions for these neurodevelopmental disorders/conditions
I know what I have been thinking but really I need to see if i've got it right and therefore why I am posting.

To me I would say it goes on for sometime and an element at times of cataloguing like getting it all together and organised and pinning it down in different ways sometimes . Then the niche part of it like no not just a tshirt but a niche part to it like cartoon funny for such.
Going quite far with you like a colour, soon your house is knitted with it, clothes bags you name for decades.
Parks not just parks, ducks in them and be filiming in the all the parks. No ducks your heart is broken and you won't want to go and be lamenting and it's just not the same. Sometimes it may be unrealistic and you still keep it going for years. It can sure get intense with a good hyperfocus. It be very repetitive for sure and you can be inflexible even if you try something you may dump soon after.

An interest I would can come from a natural talent which all of us as human beings I would presume.

Now what is DSM 5 saying about interests
Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).
Autism diagnostic criteria: DSM-5 | Autism Speaks

What is ICD 11 saying about interets

In ICD-11 [11], ASD is characterized by persistent deficits in the ability to initiate and sustain reciprocal social interaction and social communication and by a range of restricted, repetitive, and inflexible patterns of behavior, interests, or activities that are clearly atypical or excessive. These deficits are usually a pervasive feature of the individual’s functioning observable in all settings, although they may vary according to social, educational, or other context.

Autism spectrum disorder in ICD-11—a critical reflection of its possible impact on clinical practice and research - Molecular Psychiatry

In your defintion what makes special interets.

The special term is not actually used. This is thing I have heard professors boffins at a subject. This is sometimes best used in a setting unless essay writing in situations that may handle it better. Some people struggle to understand sometimes these terms people use especially when it is not their subject area. Considering if there is a point to it, it is not an essay and you won't be marked. Sometimes you may read you don't understand you cannot be reached all the time a dictionary for entertainment. Try and simple as possible. There is something in journals called plain English version or professional version. No point the professional all on the time on forums for it stands out if too often. May be some people try and buy into and show of their a full professor. Yes I may try and get in overdrive and switch it a knotch depending where I am bit in such in presenting a topic I am passionate about and read freshly may more be dressed in a lingo a bit more.

I cannot help feeling a bit it seems there is no actual special interests as such but restricted it seeming.

 

[Tiffany Kate]

I think the DSM and ICD are trying to describe exactly what makes an autistic “special interest” an autism thing, rather than just… an interest.

“Special interest” itself, as a phrase, doesn’t mean anything in particular other than that the person is more interested than the average person. For instance, in the UK, we have GPs (family doctors) with a “special interest” in specialities such as dermatology. They’re not autistic - they just have more expertise in that speciality than most GPs, and will advise their colleagues on it. Sort of like more expert than an ordinary GP, but not as expert as an actual dermatologist.

So, if you want to be able to define whether a person’s interest in aircraft spotting is an “autistic special interest” or just an ordinary interest/hobby that anyone could have, you need be able to say what makes the difference.

And the difference seems to be:
- It’s abnormally (compared to neurotypicals) intense/obsessive: you don’t just like spotting aircraft, you spend a lot of time doing it, classifying aircraft, tracking down aircraft you haven’t seen yet (unusual or not), you’ll talk about spotting aircraft for hours, looking through your aircraft-spotting records is relaxing, and so on.
- It’s restricted (maybe you are just interested in spotting certain types of aircraft)
- It’s repetitive and inflexible (You are unhappy if you can’t go aircraft-spotting for some reason)
- It’s excessive (you spend an abnormal amount of time on activities related to aircraft-spotting)

With the aircraft-spotting example, aircraft spotters probably all do that. It’s the intensity and pervasiveness that pushes it into “autistic” territory, plus potentially not having many (any?) other interests alongside.

“Special interest” is probably used as a shorthand for all that, plus it sounds “friendlier” than using words like “excessive” and “abnormally intense”.

 

[Rachie]

Thank you Tiffany for your thoughts. I want to commit and say this is homework for today for I should have a good bit of time on my hands but I think I may need someone in real life to speak it to me in their terms to grab it for I am floundering still to see the big picture perhaps it seems. I am continuing with it and will say so I have confidentally have.
I am going to scruntise your post again and again perhaps.
I wish they would come with it bodly special interest as a term seeing that it is used so much.
I thought it might be useful to drop how ADOS worded using I think ICD 11 in the UK not sure. I have taken out my scores I don't think it is really relevant.

I don't want to use find on the report for information on the above as the wording can be awkward to read about yourself.

 

[Judge]

* Maybe neither protocol should even bother attempting to describe "special interests".

Regardless of nebulous or insufficient formal descriptions of "special interests", I've always thought of them not in terms of what they are, but rather simply how we communicate them in a more intensive manner than our NT counterparts. Big deal.

That from such a perspective, they may seem uncomfortable to hear with such intensity, whereas from our own point of view, it simply reflects elevated enthusiasm and determination to learn and perhaps master something. What's wrong with that?

After all, I'd think anyone going to med school would stick out inappropriately using such a metric. Imagine stigmatizing med school students to a point where their numbers drop off.

Though the mere implication that one cannot be passionate about something- anything seems inherently bizarre to me. Perhaps yet another unintended example of where such protocols are really more about support levels than as a viable diagnostic tool.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

My life basically revolves around my special interest, as an amateur doubt any NT would have my degree of intensity.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Kids are great with ketchup.

 

[Rachie]

I'm not a spetic at all but I like to see it in there and by all means I've been looking but not seen it. I like the flexibiity in this forum you don't to play along and cover your thoughts so much.
So breathes as Deborah Meaden would say i'm for now i'm out and remain a skeptic on it. For I have got several of those. Someone else bears I say special stuffed kind as well. It is excessive for sure, but not special. I'm out but not as special just yet.
So I would say it is not true there is no special interests and here is the stinger I think some neuro people may play into a bit thinking need to conform. Some were always and now feel free to be this is is excluded and not what I am talking about. Do some feel yes that is me t-shirt and hey i'm special as well.
Not sold to the aunt and sister and know of the unspecial doing the special.

It is hard and they us all to get this. What about the disabed or learning disability who have interests but not able to do them. It is conflicted and need to be resolved.

 

[Rachie]

How about neurotypicals can have equally strong special interests such as strong as an autistic and in some even stronger than them.
For one category of strength will not pass an autistic test scores you need in others to to make an autistic. At its highest restricted et al a score or best or does it extend to complusions rituals, hard to determine. You can have these strenghts without passing any tests.

For I come up with a 2 on interests was I medicated to help, not sure. Probably been higher darker days. It is stable but meander and you may wonder where it went but you noticed it somewhere else appearing just as strong ...turning up again. Level 2 again for rituals etc etc . A NT is at liberty to reach 3 or 6 I cannot work it out, thus no autism if maintained through the test not much progressing but they have strong good at so called special interests.

There are too many neurotypicals and I have seen who have strong special special interests. The Chaser game shows some not autitsic and may be not and I will take it as no autism and the fact book knowledge and they was said sending themselves up they are just gifted as a neurotypical can be.

Button is hard out

I will link to mull over later myself

De-Pathologizing the ‘Intense Special Interests’ of Autism ​

De-Pathologizing the ‘Intense Special Interests’ of Autism

 

[velociraptor]

My special interests tend to be seasonal, but I go very deep into them when I am able. It is paddle boarding, hiking, and photography during the warm season. Collecting media and running my online radio station during the cold season.

 

[Rachie]

Shortly after this post I will update the thread on celebrities wth a neurodiversity.

This one I couldn't get my head around and couldn't remember who was who until I looked it up.

The Chase on ITV I don't know if anyone has seen it. Gameshows are usually not my thing but I heard about it and stumbled on it a few times in the past. The panel with their specalist knowledge or some such. I beleived there to be two of them who have talked about autism and them having it. It went on like this for years, my friends said i'm with autism and this is a gameshow and my special knowledge is...A few years later some may think have you have done with the testing yet and your with the autism. So to settle until I hear has ben tested I can say you have a special knowledges and strong interests.

Would be nice if you joined us, would be glad to have you. Certainly got enough money to have a private test. I have not read anything on your communication yet I said yet or social interaction than anything else than your special knowledges.
This is Mark Labbett a special knowdledge without a confirmed diagnosis of autism on the Chase.

Then his co panel Ann Hagerty said she was diagnosed with aspergers in 2005 or whatever she was and clap that one in, quickly. Good one to find.
The Governess, Anne Hegerty, on autism, quizzing and her challenges with everyday life

So back a point to look at, say if he may be autistic but say if he wasn't and he just had a special knowledge and say good in other subjects. He might have challenges but not of the autistic kind. Say if they did ADOS and scored 3 in interests and someone diagnosed as autistic scored 0 or 1. Who would be driven in this area? The autistic could come out being diagnosed with their 0 or 1 with no special interests as interests, interests not strong ones.

Some professional NHS their jobs can become it seems and even I was wondering a special interest and sometims you don't understand is that a joke, your tone was sharp. I was told not that old chesnut that we have a bit of something. Well I convinced till I saw some people scores in the teens for autism or the standard quiz, rejecting autism or pretending, didn't understand the questions.

 

[Rachie]

I think somehow if someone reads this in thread, I say that because I don't want to load anyone with more to read with. For some months now I read autistics are more likely or some to be found sitting at the end pew/section at church.
I took it is an ok and thought when shown months later a photo taken when I was not aware and I was found, woop on the end. I couldn't myself fast enough. Wondered how exactly could I show this. I found a way to respect the privacy futrher for my rector.

Now some months later I go to start a thread and I reach for the photo to bring out as evidence for sitting on the end and that is right sealed right a trait good as claimed. I looked at the point at it again look hard there is other members and guess what they all at the mostly as well found at the end.
I tried again today all the end bar two was it a couple sat to next to eachother.

Then they said doesn't like a lot of people. I went to old primary school church happy to be known by anyone as such, such hide as for a bit. I don't want to talk this and that and I all I know is is my dial a ride is coming is about 40 minutes. I was well spaced. Scared of the nuns who I grew up with childhood, pretty much the old dear couldn't get up as well. I was there for somethings which was not for this. A wednesday service smaller building not regular same to said. Aim is to fill the please come. Difficult situation. Excluded a brief on it while I unpicked.
How did she my dial a ride for me as she approached me...Rachel your bus is outside and I remember an Emery box if you will.
Some unpicked some not unpicked.

I have a feeling if I get why they are likely to be found on the end pew when majority of church is as i observed yesterday. For I nearly something unique about it.

I do not wish to be pathologised without an evidence coming from the medical word. They are trying but I have to be cautious.

They gave enjoy special tickets I have written no idea on my own how to take special from an interest.

I do know that some one is a NT can have special interests I think so as well.

The thread with the photo- I like stay a bit in the middle sometimes it is confirmed as well.

https://www.autismforums.com/threads/church-and-autism.46566/page-4#post-1170358

"People with an autism spectrum condition will
usually prefer to sit at the end of a pew/row, and
not somewhere busy."

I can eliminate I have found myself what was it 2018 not being able to sit up up and variation and movingm difficulty before diagnosis, before ever heard of it.
Organ or piano behaviour confirmed to early childhood.

 

[velociraptor]

I will update the thread on celebrities wth a neurodiversity.

I have never understood why I am supposed to be interested in what celebrities are ND. It makes no difference in my life and is not useful knowledge for me.

 

[Judge]

How about neurotypicals can have equally strong special interests such as strong as an autistic and in some even stronger than them.

Yes. When I think of such considerations, I think of the scientific community. With all those Nobel Prize winners. I seriously doubt most of them are on the spectrum.

Though it would be interesting to determine the social difficulties they encountered on the way to greatness. Wondering how they handled such biases connected to extreme enthusiasm when perhaps even some of their own peers didn't want to hear their ideas and experiments which ultimately panned out.

The only scientist I can think of who had such great difficulties I am aware of was Albert Einstein. Allegedly on the spectrum...but wow- his peers gave him a pretty bad time professionally speaking.

 

[Rachie]

I have never understood why I am supposed to be interested in what celebrities are ND. It makes no difference in my life and is not useful knowledge for me.

Of course this topic may be of no interest to anyone.
However, some people may potentially think i'm autistic and neurodiverse and nothing is possible. Then they may see others with the diagnosis out performing in ways you never knew was possible. I made it as loose as possible....doing well if nurturing your interests.
It may be like an encouragment for some and may cause wondering and perhaps for a few moments here or there for some.
I am the one who is typing and I thought at times...and cause me to pause...some questionable celebrity who could go private....the autistic but not diagnosed when found to wrongly behaviour celebrity chef said enough...they say a what an intellectual, autistic and scientist well that is brilliant....Right taking it apart I would never declare myself that I was an intellectual. That one and autism is as well....hey hoo they must be level 1 just about hide about my blushes now come and post.

Here is another possibility---the link being discussed short life span with autism to be set apart but too many factors.

Just interesting and I do appreciate some real life accounts like by Tylan Grant of their autistic experience the richness of theirs. I think that is something worth a new thread of its own.

You can post seeing if there is any truth but it is tiny sample just interesting at times, nothing to taken too seriously. For I beginning where the scientists and those talented as well...heavy in creativity which I was glad to see but still.

 

[Ken]

I don't really know anything about all these categories and research, but I feel that my "special interest" has a very strong autistic connection. From as far back as I can remember, 3 or 4 years of age to present (72), I have had an obsessive interest in all things electrical. Throughout my life, I have often been in trouble for spending too much time on it. It has been a total obsession overwhelming any other interests or required tasks. It's hard to think of anything else. As a result, now at the age of 72, I am a retired electronics design engineer and achieved the position of senior design engineer even with no degree. My autistic social issues made college impossible. I achieved my senior position by presenting innovative designs. The innovation, however was due to my autistic umwelt.
I don't know if that helps, but it's my life.

 

[Rachie]

I don't really know anything about all these categories and research, but I feel that my "special interest" has a very strong autistic connection. From as far back as I can remember, 3 or 4 years of age to present (72), I have had an obsessive interest in all things electrical. Throughout my life, I have often been in trouble for spending too much time on it. It has been a total obsession overwhelming any other interests or required tasks. It's hard to think of anything else. As a result, now at the age of 72, I am a retired electronics design engineer and achieved the position of senior design engineer even with no degree. My autistic social issues made college impossible. I achieved my senior position by presenting innovative designs. The innovation, however was due to my autistic umwelt.
I don't know if that helps, but it's my life.

Ken thank you for sharing this. I would say this sounds like a specialist interest and neither of us needs to open a text book on this.

I think perhaps non autistics can have special interests as well, perhaps with more interest than other autistics. Autistics do not have a uniform interests and what happens if you didn't score in the needed category but did enough to qualify.

Some autistics have learning disability who may be more limited the scope of their interests.

I hope noone has really pegged that on my notes and it is too late to recall I would need to read the evidence in my notes. For one of my conditions anorexia it can be a special interest deviation of autism it is has been written. That is loaded. You could be encouraged perhaps for some to hold onto it even, it needs poking. I am just poking and know that everyone deserves a standard treatment.

All those shared are special interests and it takes a while to go back and read and again to gain a full understanding of what is going on.

 

[Rachie]

With a bit more time on my hands this morning I went through thread again.

I do agree with Tiffany Kate description of special interests. I think they used aircrafts and I was talking about ducks and a very similar explanation followed.

Now I am not so keen to dissect my interests most of us just trying to live. I did read article linked on pathologicalising and the pysch central wrote that nurotypicals can also have special interests. They also talked about abnormal interests versus normal interests.

Although I do have on paper interests I did wonder if one could be awarded points just for repetitive behaviour and perserevative topics as I used to get a fair amount of this mentioned often in my medical reports as well.

I think not all interests are desirable. Therefore if my eating disorder is one it is not desirable. Thankfully after that the other interests are more desirable.

Sitting in the end row at the end of a pew. Well I was certainly believing it for a while and I have no idea what their thoughts was. This is not a special interest obviously, but it was like a feature/trait that autism have that I almost bought unto I saw the photo myself and withdrew judgement.
.