Aspie working with autistic children.

[royinpink]

For those whose communication skills and prospects for independent living were minimal, stimming was fine and we had chewable jewellery, mini trampolines and a sensory room.

That's great! It sounds like the special ed program where you worked was a lot more supportive, perhaps involving occupational therapists, speech-language pathologists, and educators over behavioral psychology-influenced approaches?

I have decided I just need to encourage staff to ask why instead of just saying no. Instead of trying to stop the stim with a verbal or physical cue ask ourselves why might this student be stimming? Let's look at our surroundings and evaluate others behavior before telling them to stop. If it's something we can change, change it. I just don't know what to do if it's something that cannot be changed.

Yeah, stopping stims with a cue is very ABA-style. And that comes with its own slew of baggage. I hope suggesting they ask themselves why first makes a difference, but if they are set in this as the 'right' and 'evidence-based' approach, it may take a good deal more than that to sway them.

Any advice on how to still seem like a good employee when I can't get myself to discipline them for non-harmful stimming? Or to seem like I'm trying when I'm giving a student time to answer a question instead of getting an immediate answer?

I always explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, e.g. "I know student x heard me but has sensory processing difficulties, so I am giving him/her processing time." Otherwise you are vulnerable to whatever assumptions they want to make about your behavior. Of course, this opens you up for argument about whether yours is the right approach. It might well be good to have a couple studies/books in mind to back yourself up if it comes to that.

This is a bit of a no-win situation, because most people don't like those who are supposedly subordinate to them to know more or not follow their authority. Some are open to being educated, but many aren't. This is one of the reasons I 'played the aspie card' before. People will simply not believe you have any better knowledge than they do, being your superiors, unless you have an undeniable reason, like a PhD, or you know, actually being autistic.

So in the absence of credentials or 'aspie card', I think the best way to approach the conversation is...gently, always emphasizing that you see their perspective and share their goals (if/when you do)--maybe not the goal of eliminating stimming, say, but the over-arching goal of helping the kids to focus and learn which they feel restricting stimming is necessary to achieve. If you introduce information in this way, like, "I understand why you want to do R approach, and I agree that Q is important. Actually, I was reading X book/study and it showed how Y approach helped Z autistics to do Q," rather than, "X book/study shows your approach is wrong" (not that you'd do that), And sometimes, it doesn't hurt to ask permission to 'try something' and see how it goes. But it depends on who you're working with, always.

Later that afternoon he finally said "hi, persons name" out of the blue when that student wasn't around. I told the teacher and she didn't seem to get why I was excited.

Oh god, I know the feeling. But you are doing it right. Please know that you are doing everything 100% right for these kids. They need to have positive reinforcement for their progress just as much as any typically developing child, and are so often denied it. And when they only learn through their mistakes, the message comes through loud and clear that their effort is never good enough.

I'm also very confused about the physical aspect of things like how much force to use in hand over hand applications, but more on that another time, maybe.

I dunno if you clicked the link about Tito that I shared upthread, but she does mention the use of hand over hand there. It is not specific about amount of force applied, though. I bet that information is out there, and I also bet you can figure it out by observing the kids.

 

[Ylva]

What's the point of disciplining someone for self-harming? It's unlikely to make them feel understood. Certainly won't make them feel more connected.

I hope suggesting they ask themselves why first makes a difference, but if they are set in this as the 'right' and 'evidence-based' approach, it may take a good deal more than that to sway them.

People are so impressed by the term "evidence-based". They never think to ask what the evidence is or where it points.

For the other thing… I have found the phrase "I read somewhere that…" to be helpful in planting ideas. I've never lied about it, except about forgetting where I read it sometimes. You did read it – here. But they don't need to know about this place.

Seriously. The last thing I want is another ABAer dropping by to share their opinions on ABA, let alone a small swarm.

 

[royinpink]

For the other thing… I have found the phrase "I read somewhere that…" to be helpful in planting ideas.

Ah yeah, that is a good reminder that you don't always have to (and sometimes it's in your best interests NOT to) be specific about where... Some people are remarkably accepting if you just say "somewhere" or "a study" or whatever. And it's less open to challenge.

As for speech language pathology and ABA, I think this article is a really sensitive, critical without being like 'ABA is evil' explanation of problems with language training in (some) ABA. Actually the whole blog is good. It's by a speech language pathologist who designed an AAC app. I don't remember how I found it. Maybe it was even here. Maybe it was even Ylva who shared it. Totally forgot.

 

[Stik]

I just finished my fifth week in the autism classroom and my conclusion to changing things is to become a teacher myself. After listening to the teachers yell at a student today I've had enough. I even got yelled at to not let him hold my hand so I could guide him where to go when he was being yelled at. I'm honestly scared of the two teachers I work with. They use their scariness to scare kids into doing what they're told, which I don't agree with. I think yelling should be saved for those super scary things that they do that could hurt themselves or others and not for following through with an instruction fast enough. I feel like the teachers have no patience and don't research new techniques to discipline and communicate more effectively. I just read a book by Tito, How Can I Talk if My Lips Don't Move, and brought it up to my teacher saying how eye opening it is. She didn't appear to be interested even though I told her it was about real experiences from a profoundly autistic individual that has been taught how to communicate. I honestly don't know how the teachers get away with what they do and I'm tired of being the only one that sticks up for the kids. I would report it but I'm new and new to autism. Maybe they'll eventually notice my ways are more effective but I'm not counting on it. That's why I need to be an asd teacher. Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[tw3]

Not a teacher, but trying to learn more about AS, so is stimming when I make any kind of repetitive motion?
I do some repetitive things unconsciously that sometimes annoy people and they'll say please stop that or why are you doing that.

 

[Myway]

I believe so. Stimming is used to calm oneself or prevent something. People also shouldn't stop you from doing it or make rude comments about it. It is how an Aspie or Autie regulate and keep calm in social situations. I do it a lot when I am overstimulated. It helps me come back to almost normal.

 

[Stik]

Not a teacher, but trying to learn more about AS, so is stimming when I make any kind of repetitive motion?
I do some repetitive things unconsciously that sometimes annoy people and they'll say please stop that or why are you doing that.

Yes. Sometimes it's really noticeable and sometimes subtle. Rocking, hand flapping, jumping, tapping, sifting, humming, etc.

 

[DC1346]

It's my fourth year working for the public school district and I left my old classroom that I felt quite comfortable in to be in an autism classroom (4th & 5th grades). I just finished my sixth day and I know things need to change for these kids. It's starting to feel like my life purpose.

Hello! I'm an aspie teacher also. I used to be elementary (17 years) but burned out and went to culinary school. After working in the industry for four years, I returned to the field of education in 2007, this time as a high school Culinary Arts instructor.

This year will be my 26th year in education.

So ... here we are about a month after your post ... how are things going for you?

Question: What was your old classroom? Were you elementary certified or are you special ed? I ask because the training for each area can be quite different.

I don't know where to start and could use some advice.

Since this is your 4th year, you're just "coming into your own" as a teacher. With the exception of those people who are natural teachers (which I am not), most of us in the profession have to learn how to do our jobs. I don't know about your experience, but I thought that my student teaching was totally inadequate in preparing me for my first job ... which was down in the Rio Grande Valley of south Texas working in a Title I migrant district.

On average, it takes 3-4 years for a novice teacher to find his/her balance. For those of you who are not teachers, the term "balance" refers to the balance between having kids like you and maintaining control of your class. Novice teachers almost invariably want to be friends with their students and this is a mistake because if you're their friend, why can't they talk during class? Why are you making them do homework? Why are you giving them a quiz? On the other side of the class management pendulum is excessive discipline ... the overly authoritative teacher ... the tyrannical despot who seemingly has perfect control over his/her class but is also universally hated. There is a fine balance in having a good relationship with students while also maintaining control over the instructional environment.

So ... presumably you have established and posted class rules.

Do you have seating charts? Do you have established routines in your classroom?

Question: Are you self contained or do you escort your children to other classes?

I'm having a hard time with the no stimming rule. I don't get why we're supposed to discourage it, especially if it's not harmful to anyone.

How odd. Who came up with the no stimming rule? Is this district policy or school policy? If it's school policy, could you appeal to your building administrator?

I self stimmed as a child ... or tried to ... but my parents slapped this out of me. My father would also belt me if my mother's open handed face slaps didn't work. Yes ... I know ... back in the day, they called this "discipline" but of course today, this would be child abuse. No matter ... my childhood is long since over and done with ... and I have not had any kind of relationship with my mother for over 35 years ... (sigh)

I would not be surprised to learn that this no stimming policy originated from an NT who is seeking to impose the semblance of normalcy on autistic children.

Last year I worked with a special ed teacher whose IEP for a high performing autistic student was that the student be allowed to have more time to complete his work. She clearly did not have high expectations for this student and the kid in question was lazy and used his autism as an excuse not to do any work at all ... and so he fell further and further behind in all subject areas until reality finally caught up with him. Realizing that he was a senior and that he was about to fail, he panicked and stopped coming to school altogether.

After accumulating something like 24 days of unexcused absences, I filed a letter of "no credit" with the registrar for Culinary Arts. The special ed teacher was INCENSED and she stormed into my room (WITH STUDENTS PRESENT) and loudly demanded to know what I was thinking. Didn't I understand that this student needed to graduate? Didn't I have any sympathy for the fact that HE WAS AUTISTIC ... as though autism was a free pass to let this kid skate through life without any consequences. Moreover, district policy said that teachers may issue denial of credit after accumulating TEN DAYS of unexcused absences. I had waited an additional 14 days, so who did this teacher think she was ... interrupting my class ... RAISING HER VOICE TO ME ... and acting as though I was the bad guy when she was the one who had enabled this lazy student to do nothing.

I locked eyes with this teacher, leaned over and growled, "Do I understand that this child is autistic? Yes. Do I understand what it means to be autistic? LADY ... I AM AUTISTIC."

Unable to articulate a response, the NT teacher fled. The kid wound up not graduating and will have to repeat his senior year.

 

[Stik]

Hello! I'm an aspie teacher also. I used to be elementary (17 years) but burned out and went to culinary school. After working in the industry for four years, I returned to the field of education in 2007, this time as a high school Culinary Arts instructor.

Question: What was your old classroom? Were you elementary certified or are you special ed? I ask because the training for each area can be quite different.

So ... presumably you have established and posted class rules.

Do you have seating charts? Do you have established routines in your classroom?

Question: Are you self contained or do you escort your children to other classes?

How odd. Who came up with the no stimming rule? Is this district policy or school policy? If it's school policy, could you appeal to your building administrator?

I locked eyes with this teacher, leaned over and growled, "Do I understand that this child is autistic? Yes. Do I understand what it means to be autistic? LADY ... I AM AUTISTIC."

Unable to articulate a response, the NT teacher fled. The kid wound up not graduating and will have to repeat his senior year.

Hello! Sorry I wasn't clear in my original post. Right now I'm a ASD paraprofessional (teacher's aide) and don't need licensure. The classroom I was in before was severe to profound mental retardation. I was more of a caretaker in that class but was always drawn to the students that were also on the spectrum which made me decide to try out an ASD classroom.

I follow the teacher's rules and she's the one that told me to strongly discourage stimming even if it isn't causing any harm. There is a seating arrangement for when we're working together as a class, which I don't completely agree with because she's really loud and she has one of the students that's sensitive to sound right by her. I'm sure that's why he often cries or doesn't work during that time due to concentration issues.

We mostly work in our own classroom with the students. We do one activity with the general ed students and go on field trips with them. We do a lot of collaboration with another ASD classroom but I don't agree with that teacher's techniques either. I'm really curious to see how the other ASD teachers are.

I can't tell you how often I've wanted to tell them I'm autistic but I'm scared of how they'll treat me since the students are treated poorly. That's awesome that you responded that way and I'm glad that kid was held behind. I love working with mentally challenged but autism is different and it needs to stop being classified as the same. I'm pretty sure the students are bored with their lessons and need more difficult academic work. Just because some of them can't talk doesn't mean they can't listen! I even think one of them should be in a gifted math class. My opinion is to find a way to communicate as the most important task that ASD teachers should address and let them sit in general ed classes so they can soak up any information they can. The ASD teacher should work with academics too, but they need to really customize it to the students needs so they can show their knowledge accurately. I'm smart and a lot of teachers could see it, but most of the ways I had to show my intelligence didn't work like with tests and essays. When I got to middle school things became a lot less visual and I went from being a straight A student to barely passing. I dropped out and got a GED a year earlier than I was supposed to graduate and got a 3.9 grade average in college and graduated with honors receiving an associates degree. I'm guessing because it was for something I was interested in and was visual based again since it was for graphic design.

 

[tw3]

I guess the new thing for me is that I really don't like being touched. If someone comes at me suddenly, I reflexively and quickly shoot out my hand to stop them. Friends are usually shocked (me too) at how fast my reflexes are to defend myself.
This happens at school where I am teaching. As far as I know, no one knows I'm on the scale and no one else there is on the scale.
I'm still learning what it means to be an Aspie in an NT world. I want to stay under the radar, anonymous, but I keep discovering new actions on my part that could be understood as being Aspie by knowledgeable people, such as this self defense thing.

 

[toothless]

ive been stopped from completeing many of my stims my whole life such as banging or hitting my head and chewing my clothes and myself.
ive also been treated very cruelly for my pica.
id rather children be left to their stims if theyre like me,my neurologist helped my banging stim by prescribing me padded helmets although i cant wear them often because they get to hot, my support staff helped by giving me more PECS to communicate with.

i have brain injury from some of the banging ive done so i believe theres a limit in which we will need some intervention,with chewing my hands, they gave me fingerless gloves which i liked because they provided me with some sensory feed back but i regulary had to get new gloves as i chewed through them all-better than damaging my flesh though.

ive been stopped from rocking by support staff, theyve told me it makes them feel sick and shouted at me,at school i was hit with a wooden ruler when i rocked or bit or hit my head and then roughly restrained against the table if i continued.

 

[ksheehan88]

ive been stopped from completeing many of my stims my whole life such as banging or hitting my head and chewing my clothes and myself.
ive also been treated very cruelly for my pica.
id rather children be left to their stims if theyre like me,my neurologist helped my banging stim by prescribing me padded helmets although i cant wear them often because they get to hot, my support staff helped by giving me more PECS to communicate with.

i have brain injury from some of the banging ive done so i believe theres a limit in which we will need some intervention,with chewing my hands, they gave me fingerless gloves which i liked because they provided me with some sensory feed back but i regulary had to get new gloves as i chewed through them all-better than damaging my flesh though.

ive been stopped from rocking by support staff, theyve told me it makes them feel sick and shouted at me,at school i was hit with a wooden ruler when i rocked or bit or hit my head and then roughly restrained against the table if i continued.

Is chewing clothing considered a stim is it?

 

[Judge]

Is chewing clothing considered a stim is it?

I'd think just about anything can potentially be construed as stimming if a person does it to self regulate in some capacity.

You know the saying..."If it feels, good, do it!"

 

[Ylva]

Is chewing clothing considered a stim is it?

Chewing gum certainly provides stimulation.

 

[ksheehan88]

Chewing gum certainly provides stimulation.

I only ask as I used to chew through my sleeves til they were in shreds, same with ties. I don't chew clothes anymore but I still chew my thumb, tongue, lips and cheeks

 

[Ylva]

I used to chew on the thread in hoodies. For a while I loved to chew my own tongue.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

ive been stopped from rocking by support staff, theyve told me it makes them feel sick and shouted at me,at school i was hit with a wooden ruler when i rocked or bit or hit my head and then roughly restrained against the table if i continued.

Terrible. These ignoramuses think they know best when in fact they know very little. Who cares if it makes other people feel uncomfortable? Rocking is a safe stim and you should be able to do it in environments you feel comfortable in.

 

[Ylva]

Idea: Maybe people who can't stand to see people rock shouldn't work with people who need to rock to stay sane.