ASD and teachers

[Ihaveaspergers]

I have had teachers who assumed that I had skills that I did not really have. Do teachers assume too much? Some argue that teacher assume that you know all the basics or will just learn without directly focusing on it. What is going on? Is this an ASD issue or do everyone experience this?

 

[Misery]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: School aint designed to help students learn all sorts of useful info. It's designed to help students learn to conform. It's very, VERY rare that you'll find any teacher that doesnt simply follow "the system", applying it to every student regardless of anything else, and then getting all irritable when it doesnt work, flinging punishments around. Faced with someone who isnt NT, they will simply apply techniques designed for NTs even though it doesnt bloody work. They also assume you have certain bits of knowledge because the course is designed with that assumption in mind, which is equally stupid. An outdated and astonishingly terrible system.

A ton of us went through this in school. I know I did. I always say, 4 years of highschool, and the one and only thing I actually learned was how to type really fast. Learned nothing else. NOTHING else. Utterly useless waste of time outside of the typing thing.

But yeah, you're not alone on dealing with that nonsense. So many of us have been there.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: School aint designed to help students learn all sorts of useful info. It's designed to help students learn to conform. It's very, VERY rare that you'll find any teacher that doesnt simply follow "the system", applying it to every student regardless of anything else, and then getting all irritable when it doesnt work, flinging punishments around. Faced with someone who isnt NT, they will simply apply techniques designed for NTs even though it doesnt bloody work. They also assume you have certain bits of knowledge because the course is designed with that assumption in mind, which is equally stupid. An outdated and astonishingly terrible system.

A ton of us went through this in school. I know I did. I always say, 4 years of highschool, and the one and only thing I actually learned was how to type really fast. Learned nothing else. NOTHING else. Utterly useless waste of time outside of the typing thing.

But yeah, you're not alone on dealing with that nonsense. So many of us have been there.

designed for NTs?

 

[Misery]

designed for NTs?

Basically meaning that a particular thing that works around psychological aspects (which learning is a part of) is specifically designed to work with the average person; it's the same with something like advertisements and trailers, which are effectively giant psychological traps designed to suck you in and get you to buy some shiny thing that probably sucks, but an odd thing I've noticed is that a lot of the people I know who are on the spectrum are utterly immune to the things the ads throw at them. Among other things. Odd phenomenon.

Hm, I'm not 100% sure I'm explaining this properly, so this might not be making sense. I know what I mean but I'm having trouble putting this into words.

 

[SDRSpark]

it's the same with something like advertisements and trailers, which are effectively giant psychological traps designed to suck you in and get you to buy some shiny thing that probably sucks, but an odd thing I've noticed is that a lot of the people I know who are on the spectrum are utterly immune to the things the ads throw at them.

LOL I know how much work, study, and money goes into trying to manipulate me through advertisement, and more or less, I'm offended by it. At least, a lot of it (I'd be a bald faced liar if I said I wasn't influenced by some advertisement). I know making that box a certain color is a psychological trick to appeal to me, playing Christmas music in stores is supposed to trigger my brain to buy gifts etc., I know they've spent a ton of money to target me...and it ticks me off.

When it comes to obnoxious popup ads and the like, IF I notice what the product even was (I've gotten good at averting my eyes while I look to close the popup lol) I am more likely to specifically avoid it because they annoy me than I am to buy it.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I've seen a lot of commercial recently which told me that a certain product is disgusting. Still people buy it. Perhaps showing that a product, eg a soft drink, is disgusting make peoole buy it. Seems strange to me.
I would like to hear good things about a product. Distugsting porn sell. Maybe the commercial with a distugsting drink is aimed at people who are addicted to soft drinks.
I cannot say that aspies are immune to this.
Perhaps repetition of ads isn't really working for most aspies. There was a recent commercial that used some repetition but also had an interesting commercial. Repetition in itself seem to work less for aspies as we need to be interested in something.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

Basically meaning that a particular thing that works around psychological aspects (which learning is a part of) is specifically designed to work with the average person; it's the same with something like advertisements and trailers, which are effectively giant psychological traps designed to suck you in and get you to buy some shiny thing that probably sucks, but an odd thing I've noticed is that a lot of the people I know who are on the spectrum are utterly immune to the things the ads throw at them. Among other things. Odd phenomenon.

Hm, I'm not 100% sure I'm explaining this properly, so this might not be making sense. I know what I mean but I'm having trouble putting this into words.

What are the psychological aspects in school that you are refering to?
I find people often assume that I have skills that I don't really have. My singing teacher told me that I need to be more physical when I speak or sing. Sometimes that becomes a bit like acting. I cannot explain it here. Most singing teachers just ask you to stand still and sing. It's much more fun to acts as well.
I am not sure this is an asperger issue. Perhaps some aspies need to act more physically. It really doean't work otherwise for many of us. I know a guy who can imitate Mick Jagger or Bee Gess but not sing otherwise. He and me probably need to be more physical which can be a big comical.
Perhaps this has to do with the hypo and hyper that is very common in aspergers. Much of our issues are not even in the diagnosis criteria. This aspect of the diagnosis is seldom talked about.

 

[Misery]

What are the psychological aspects in school that you are refering to?

Well, I'll go with an extremely blatant example:

Giving speeches. You know, you write some stupid essay, and then have to stand in front of the class and read it, despite nobody wanting to hear it. To the teachers, this is a positive social effect. It's meant to get people used to speaking in front of a group (as this is required by quite a few jobs/careers, even ones where it doesnt really make any sense) and improve relations between students... somehow.

But for those on the spectrum, it tends to do the literal opposite. Makes speaking to people even scarier than it already is, causes incredible amounts of stress, and frequently leads to even more bullying, and of course the possibility of meltdowns. I dont even want to know how many of THOSE have been caused by teachers forcing this crap on students. But, because of "the system", teachers as a rule wont even CONSIDER making an exception to this, for those students whom it will simply harm. After all... that's not what they care about, and that's not the purpose of the system as a whole.

The speeches concept is designed to act on a part of a person's psychology that has to do with social connections... but since those on the spectrum think differently, the process is incompatible, and stuff just goes wrong.

Like trying to run Windows software on a Mac. It's kinda like that.

School as a whole is STUFFED with things like this. These things arent particularly obvious without a bit of examination, but they are there.

LOL I know how much work, study, and money goes into trying to manipulate me through advertisement, and more or less, I'm offended by it. At least, a lot of it (I'd be a bald faced liar if I said I wasn't influenced by some advertisement). I know making that box a certain color is a psychological trick to appeal to me, playing Christmas music in stores is supposed to trigger my brain to buy gifts etc., I know they've spent a ton of money to target me...and it ticks me off.

When it comes to obnoxious popup ads and the like, IF I notice what the product even was (I've gotten good at averting my eyes while I look to close the popup lol) I am more likely to specifically avoid it because they annoy me than I am to buy it.

Yeah, pretty much. I do the same thing, if some idiotic ad irritates me too much, I will not only avoid said product, but I'm dramatically more likely to buy a competing one out of sheer spite.

I also see this ad nonsense a lot with video games. Trailers for craptastic AAA games hypnotize audiences, getting them to very literally PAY FOR A PRODUCT THAT DOESNT EXIST YET, which is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Or, the psychological manipulation that goes into getting people addicted to gambling elements. Sad part is, by far the vast majority of people will never even notice any of this happening. Even if it's explained to them, usually it is just denied. To me though, it's so blatantly obvious that I find myself continuously baffled that a bazillion people fall for it every time. And every time, they get burned, go into a state of righteous fury, post angrily on the internet... until the next shiny trailer comes out, at which point they'll immediately and without hesitation pre-order some stupid thing again without even considering the problem. As it is, right this very moment half the freaking gaming community is in a giant uproar over a recent major AAA release, which came out in an absolutely disastrous state.... and which I was already 100% sure would happen. Knew WHAT would happen, HOW it would happen, WHY it would happen, and WHEN. And I was correct on all counts. It's THAT freaking obvious. It was that obvious a bloody year before it came out. I've got no sympathy whatsoever for those who were burned by that one. Blasted fools. But hey, those big shiny trailers told them to buy! So they did!

Just ridiculous. Ridiculous!

 

[VictorR]

To add to @Misery's excellent commentary, we have to keep in mind that in many countries (Finland being an exception), teaching is ultimately a job rather than a profession.

What I mean by this is that a significant number go into the field are not personally passionate about teaching. Some are there because their local teacher's union is strong and they want a job where they're fire-proof. Some are there because they were unable to get a job with their BA in their preferred field, and teaching is relatively straight forward to get into if you hit whatever the local checkboxes are. There are also some who might have gone into the field with interest, but as time went on, became jaded or otherwise checked-out and they eventually evolved from teachers to overpaid babysitters. This includes those who may have come from sheltered lives and are shocked to encounter situations where their students are the bullies and they themselves may be silent victims.

Rare are those who go into the field with a passion and dedicated interest to make a difference in the lives of each of their students, and who take pride in helping each of them succeed to the best of their abilities, and who keep at it. I'm lucky to have three such teachers who recognized that I was different, and who either adapted, or gave advice. The observations and experiences I had with these teachers also were helpful when I did my adult assessment, as they confirmed certain issues on the spectrum (such as one teacher's observation that my speech "lacked rhythm" and suggestion that I regularly listen to a variety of music)

 

[OkRad]

Do you mean that often teachers think we are like Rain Man and can do things that are extraordinary? Or do you mean that they want you to do things a certain way which is contrary to your ASD?

 

[tree]

I have had teachers who assumed that I had skills that I did not really have. Do teachers assume too much? Some argue that teacher assume that you know all the basics or will just learn without directly focusing on it. What is going on? Is this an ASD issue or do everyone experience this?

Teachers vary, as do students.

What sort of skills are you referring to? What age/grade level?
Can you provide examples?

When it became apparent to you that you were expected to know
more than what you did, did you tell the teacher/instructor?

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

Well, I'll go with an extremely blatant example:

Giving speeches. You know, you write some stupid essay, and then have to stand in front of the class and read it, despite nobody wanting to hear it. To the teachers, this is a positive social effect. It's meant to get people used to speaking in front of a group (as this is required by quite a few jobs/careers, even ones where it doesnt really make any sense) and improve relations between students... somehow.

But for those on the spectrum, it tends to do the literal opposite. Makes speaking to people even scarier than it already is, causes incredible amounts of stress, and frequently leads to even more bullying, and of course the possibility of meltdowns. I dont even want to know how many of THOSE have been caused by teachers forcing this crap on students. But, because of "the system", teachers as a rule wont even CONSIDER making an exception to this, for those students whom it will simply harm. After all... that's not what they care about, and that's not the purpose of the system as a whole.

The speeches concept is designed to act on a part of a person's psychology that has to do with social connections... but since those on the spectrum think differently, the process is incompatible, and stuff just goes wrong.

Like trying to run Windows software on a Mac. It's kinda like that.

School as a whole is STUFFED with things like this. These things arent particularly obvious without a bit of examination, but they are there.



Yeah, pretty much. I do the same thing, if some idiotic ad irritates me too much, I will not only avoid said product, but I'm dramatically more likely to buy a competing one out of sheer spite.

I also see this ad nonsense a lot with video games. Trailers for craptastic AAA games hypnotize audiences, getting them to very literally PAY FOR A PRODUCT THAT DOESNT EXIST YET, which is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Or, the psychological manipulation that goes into getting people addicted to gambling elements. Sad part is, by far the vast majority of people will never even notice any of this happening. Even if it's explained to them, usually it is just denied. To me though, it's so blatantly obvious that I find myself continuously baffled that a bazillion people fall for it every time. And every time, they get burned, go into a state of righteous fury, post angrily on the internet... until the next shiny trailer comes out, at which point they'll immediately and without hesitation pre-order some stupid thing again without even considering the problem. As it is, right this very moment half the freaking gaming community is in a giant uproar over a recent major AAA release, which came out in an absolutely disastrous state.... and which I was already 100% sure would happen. Knew WHAT would happen, HOW it would happen, WHY it would happen, and WHEN. And I was correct on all counts. It's THAT freaking obvious. It was that obvious a bloody year before it came out. I've got no sympathy whatsoever for those who were burned by that one. Blasted fools. But hey, those big shiny trailers told them to buy! So they did!

Just ridiculous. Ridiculous!

I actually liked the book reports in school.
For some reason I was very prepared when I had to stand in front of the class and talk about the book. How can this be a problem for aspies? Is it hard for many aspies to be prepared? I find that standing on a stage is often easier for aspies. I only disslike standing on a stage when I am.very much NOT prepared. What are you refering to?

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

I actually liked the book reports in school.
For some reason I was very prepared when I had to stand in front of the class and talk about the book. How can this be a problem for aspies? Is it hard for many aspies to be prepared? I find that standing on a stage is often easier for aspies. I only disslike standing on a stage when I am.very much NOT prepared. What are you refering to?

My singing teacher told me that I need to be more physical when I speak or sing. Sometimes that becomes a bit like acting. I cannot explain it here. Most singing teachers just ask you to stand still and sing. It's much more fun to acts as well.
I am not sure this is an asperger issue. Perhaps some aspies need to act more physically. It really doean't work otherwise for many of us. I know a guy who can imitate Mick Jagger or Bee Gess but not sing otherwise. He and me probably need to be more physical which can be a big comical.
Perhaps this has to do with the hypo and hyper that is very common in aspergers. Much of our issues are not even in the diagnosis criteria. This aspect of the diagnosis is seldom talked about.

 

[ZebraAutismo]

The Education system wasn’t designed for us. Most teachers presume I’m a genius or LD and I’m neither .

 

[Misery]

I actually liked the book reports in school.
For some reason I was very prepared when I had to stand in front of the class and talk about the book. How can this be a problem for aspies? Is it hard for many aspies to be prepared? I find that standing on a stage is often easier for aspies. I only disslike standing on a stage when I am.very much NOT prepared. What are you refering to?

Well, think about it this way: For most of us, we have a hard time interacting with ONE person at a time. Many of us cant even do eye contact in that scenario, lest we get stressed and overwhelmed. It's a very common "symptom" of the whole thing. There's an intensity to that interaction that is hard to explain to anyone that doesnt already experience it.

Well, it sorta gets worse when you're stuck in an open space with 30 sets of eyes staring at you (even worse when you know that some of those eyes belong to complete jerks who will harass you later), and you're supposed to start talking in front of them... again, hard enough for many of us to talk in a totally normal one-on-one setting, and for many it's WAY harder to deal with numerous people at once. So, we get overwhelmed and anxious. For a lot of us, no amount of "preparation" will cancel these negative effects. Instead, the effects of being overwhelmed will cancel the benefits of preparation. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that some who have been in that situation have had immediate meltdowns/shutdowns due to it.

As a result of all of this, those that go through it enough will find their ability to socialize weakened, as school is now "teaching" that it is a bad experience, due to the fact that the teachers are unable to comprehend the problems involved. Sure happened to me. At this point, if someone were to come up to me and say "Hey, if you go give this arbitrary speech in front of this group of people, I'll give you a new car" the only result would be that maybe I'd hit someone with a chair and run away.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

Well, think about it this way: For most of us, we have a hard time interacting with ONE person at a time. Many of us cant even do eye contact in that scenario, lest we get stressed and overwhelmed. It's a very common "symptom" of the whole thing. There's an intensity to that interaction that is hard to explain to anyone that doesnt already experience it.

Well, it sorta gets worse when you're stuck in an open space with 30 sets of eyes staring at you (even worse when you know that some of those eyes belong to complete jerks who will harass you later), and you're supposed to start talking in front of them... again, hard enough for many of us to talk in a totally normal one-on-one setting, and for many it's WAY harder to deal with numerous people at once. So, we get overwhelmed and anxious. For a lot of us, no amount of "preparation" will cancel these negative effects. Instead, the effects of being overwhelmed will cancel the benefits of preparation. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that some who have been in that situation have had immediate meltdowns/shutdowns due to it.

As a result of all of this, those that go through it enough will find their ability to socialize weakened, as school is now "teaching" that it is a bad experience, due to the fact that the teachers are unable to comprehend the problems involved. Sure happened to me. At this point, if someone were to come up to me and say "Hey, if you go give this arbitrary speech in front of this group of people, I'll give you a new car" the only result would be that maybe I'd hit someone with a chair and run away.

Some aspies like to stand on a stage and other can't stand it.
You are confusing "normal" situations with "standing on a stage" situations. They are totally different.
I don't understand what people are afraid of if they are prepared. It is so confusing. Why would you be afraid that you will do something wrong if you are prepared? Sure you can be a bit nervous but why worry too much if you are prepared? What are you afraid of if you are prepared, ie you know your speech or song you are to perform?

 

[Misery]

Some aspies like to stand on a stage and other can't stand it.
You are confusing "normal" situations with "standing on a stage" situations. They are totally different.
I don't understand what people are afraid of if they are prepared. It is so confusing. Why would you be afraid that you will do something wrong if you are prepared? Sure you can be a bit nervous but why worry too much if you are prepared? What are you afraid of if you are prepared, ie you know your speech or song you are to perform?

Simply put, for most people... even NTs... preparation isnt even considered when it comes to being nervous.

The nervous bit doesnt come from that. The nervous bit simply comes from being in front of a bunch of people and having to perform that kind of interaction. Nothing more. If anything, I find it's very rare for someone to have the sort of mindset that you do... preparation, for most people, usually does not cancel nervousness even to a small degree (though a LACK of preparation can ENHANCE nervousness). Even NTs can experience this... the experience, I suppose you could say, is sort of "infamous". Extremely well known that giving speeches/presentations is a source of great stress. However, NTs who go through it generally dont experience the extreme level of intensity that someone on the spectrum can go through, and for NTs the positive effects (strengthening social aspects) can still happen despite the stress, while for those on the spectrum, the positive is typically replaced by pure negative.

As for "standing on a stage", to most people the only difference between "on stage" and "at the front of a classroom" is intensity. MANY people are scared by doing the classroom variety. But pretty much all of them would agree that being on a STAGE, like in a play or something, is dramatically worse. Even those who are well experienced in performances typically report experiencing nervousness before every single performance.

It's not a matter of just doing something wrong VS something right. It's merely being in front of everyone at all, and having to interact in that "huge group" manner, all eyes on you. Again, even NTs go through it to some degree. Your resistance to it is quite rare indeed; I've never once met someone with that trait before.

I know it's hard to understand, but that's how it goes when trying to get a feel for the perspective and experience of others. It is inherently not easy to grasp. Which, incidentally, is part of why NTs can get so nasty towards us, saying things like "oh you're just faking/lazy". They cant grasp what many of us are going through on a daily basis, what it's like, because THEY havent experienced it. But that's a whole other topic.

 

[Ihaveaspergers]

Simply put, for most people... even NTs... preparation isnt even considered when it comes to being nervous.

The nervous bit doesnt come from that. The nervous bit simply comes from being in front of a bunch of people and having to perform that kind of interaction. Nothing more. If anything, I find it's very rare for someone to have the sort of mindset that you do... preparation, for most people, usually does not cancel nervousness even to a small degree (though a LACK of preparation can ENHANCE nervousness). Even NTs can experience this... the experience, I suppose you could say, is sort of "infamous". Extremely well known that giving speeches/presentations is a source of great stress. However, NTs who go through it generally dont experience the extreme level of intensity that someone on the spectrum can go through, and for NTs the positive effects (strengthening social aspects) can still happen despite the stress, while for those on the spectrum, the positive is typically replaced by pure negative.

As for "standing on a stage", to most people the only difference between "on stage" and "at the front of a classroom" is intensity. MANY people are scared by doing the classroom variety. But pretty much all of them would agree that being on a STAGE, like in a play or something, is dramatically worse. Even those who are well experienced in performances typically report experiencing nervousness before every single performance.

It's not a matter of just doing something wrong VS something right. It's merely being in front of everyone at all, and having to interact in that "huge group" manner, all eyes on you. Again, even NTs go through it to some degree. Your resistance to it is quite rare indeed; I've never once met someone with that trait before.

I know it's hard to understand, but that's how it goes when trying to get a feel for the perspective and experience of others. It is inherently not easy to grasp. Which, incidentally, is part of why NTs can get so nasty towards us, saying things like "oh you're just faking/lazy". They cant grasp what many of us are going through on a daily basis, what it's like, because THEY havent experienced it. But that's a whole other topic.

Do people on the autism spectrum have problems with public speaking that are directly related to their autism? - Quora

 

[Misery]

Just as a tip, I wouldnt put too much faith into what Quora says.

Dont look for answers to things like that on the internet. Call it a bit of advice from someone who has been on the net since it started existing.

That being said, quite a bit of that actually seems to support what I said above.

Note, this isnt whatsoever about whether someone will be GOOD at it or not. Skill was never what I was getting at. This is about the emotional/stress/mental aspect of it. Even I could go in front of 100 people on a freaking stage and rant easily about one of my interests, as an example. I know said interest right down to the smallest details, after all. However, that does not mean it wouldnt mentally/emotionally wreck me to do so. As it indeed would, even if the performance was "successful".

 

[artful_aspie]

I was hesitant to say something here because I trained as a teacher as a mature-aged student because there was a push to bring in experienced older people into the profession. Really awful idea. I received no support as a teacher with ASD. Senior teachers were openly hostile to me & students with High-Functioning Autism. Non-verbal autistic kids have special classes, some schools are better than others. Eventually, I was so traumatized I had a nervous breakdown. The bullying by kids, their parents, other teachers, & the system in general left me no where to go. It took a couple of years of therapy to stop harming myself & as I accepted it was not my fault I felt resigned to the view that parents with ASD must be very engaged with their children's education. The system will let them down. I did relief teaching for a couple of years until I decided enough suffering was enough. My own childhood schooling was not too cheerful, although I had a very engaging art teacher who had faith in me. She said, 'I was the only student who would do things, others would say they had ideas, but I actually made stuff & brought it in.' I stumbled as a lonely isolated abused child & left school early as my parents failed at parenting. Eventually I entered the education system as a mature student & did well as I have an obsessive nature, even won some academic awards. I think it just takes longer for us with autism, certainly the evidence suggests that.