Are those with Autism more likely to be atheists?

[arthurfakaya]

I came across this article which suggests there's a link between autism and atheism because people with autism are less likely to be able to relate to a personal God. Do you guys go along with this? Are you a believer or not?

 

[Bay]

I read the same article, and it made me think about the different forms that Christianity takes. Although I am agnostic, I have always been turned off by the feeling-based versions, as I am with most anything that isn't well-reasoned. I think it is no accident that whenever a hate filled screed emanating from a church is brought to light, it is usually (though not always) from a church where the emphasis is on "feeling the spirit.". Feelings are fine and have their place, but I'm uncomfortable when they drive intellect.

 

[arthurfakaya]

I used to have a problem with the "feeling the spirit" business as well because it seemed to border on pure superstition and supernatural, which my logical scientific brain fights with. I spent some years intensely studying religion and science until I was able to redefine God as a natural process that can indeed be felt spiritually - yet I disagree strongly with the claims made by religions about God. The problem, however, is that current science rejects spiritual phenomena because it cannot observe or measure them. So this required me to develop alternative scientific theories just so I could accommodate God into my worldview. But it's not a god that the churches would recognise.

 

[Arashi222]

I am not an atheist I am a pagan...I am more Wiccan than anything else. But I think it is possible to have spirtuality rather than one thing to believe in. I don't know its just me.

 

[Gomendosi]

WARNING: personal religious views contained herein, read at your own discretion!

I am not a believer nor would I encourage others to be, that is, in the popular faiths, Buddhism and Wicca are the closest things to any religion I would get but they are fast becoming popular too.
Even Jedi (as in, "May the Force Be with You") is an actual option of faith now, or you could follow the principles of a science fiction author and go for Scientology.

I have no problem with people believing, I understand why they do it, and what it means to them is totally different for every one of the people I have spoken to about it.
I however reject social convention and therefore religion has no interest for me despite that it is valid!
I actually believe that all religions essentially have merit, and are based in decency and goodness until they are popularized and perverted by the powerful for personal gain, I say have faith in yourself. (There?s probably a religion for that too)

My supposition then, I think Aspergers allows us to scrutinize the social aspect of things and deconstruct them to find our own place inside, finding no such a place for ourselves, we move on, sometimes leaving the pieces disassembled behind us.
Belief in something is a core component of a majority of human lives, the need to think we go on after death is integral to the higher beings because we deny ourselves so much in the moment, if we kept to our instinct and our natural drives we wouldn?t have roads or eat with utensils but we wouldn?t need god either, the animals don?t, they accept death.

In light of my comments I wish to state that I mean nothing said here in an inflammatory way, and my views are my own and therefore legitimate for me alone. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[arthurfakaya]

I am not an atheist I am a pagan...I am more Wiccan than anything else. But I think it is possible to have spirtuality rather than one thing to believe in. I don't know its just me.

I feel that so long as our philosophy/beliefs include the "golden rule" philosophy of "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you", we can have a spiritually rewarding experience. But if we don't, we can't because we'll be operating contrary to the laws of karma. It's the same, regardless of whether you're a theist, an atheist or an agnostic. But that's just my thought on the matter.

 

[arthurfakaya]

I think Aspergers allows us to scrutinize the social aspect of things and deconstruct them to find our own place inside, finding no such a place for ourselves, we move on, sometimes leaving the pieces disassembled behind us.

Yes, I can relate to your analysis of how us Aspies deconstruct things. I'm always doing this in order to make sense of things. But I tend to keep going obsessively until I assemble a new construct.

The need to think we go on after death is integral to the higher beings because we deny ourselves so much in the moment, if we kept to our instinct and our natural drives we wouldn?t have roads or eat with utensils but we wouldn?t need god either, the animals don?t, they accept death.

Yes, I think the development of religion was largely a response to our fear of death. However, I also have a belief in life beyond this realm that is unrelated to anything religious. Partly things I've experienced, partly logical analysis.

 

[King_Oni]

I think Aspergers allows us to scrutinize the social aspect of things and deconstruct them to find our own place inside, finding no such a place for ourselves, we move on, sometimes leaving the pieces disassembled behind us.

Yes, I can relate to your analysis of how us Aspies deconstruct things. I'm always doing this in order to make sense of things. But I tend to keep going obsessively until I assemble a new construct.

This; both of you ^^

This also reminds me of a a part of a stand-up routine Henry Rollins did. He was telling how he met a guy who attended his show, and that guy was an aspie himself. That aspie has written stuff and gave it to him, asking if Henry would read it. Henry thought it was genius. Now, why I bring this up; later in that same story he started talking about how there's this writer (Hubert Selby), who he admires and got to hang out with him.

As a piece of advice this writer told him (paraphrased) "men think (and therefore write) with the genitals". There's way too much stuff within the social construct of, for example, genderidentity and ego people put into whatever they're doing. And as such Henry figured people with Aspergers (or autism in general) don't have those limitations.

I thought it was an interesting conclusion, and as such the same thing going on with why some of us don't buy into religion that much, or so it seems.

Starts at about 4 minutes

Spoiler

 

[. . .]

To answer the thread question: Yes. Definitely. I honestly get surprised when people on the spectrum admit to being anything other than atheist or agnostic as it's quite rare to find religious people in the ASD community. If I'd have to guess, I'd say that only 5% or less of people on the spectrum are religious.

I'm Agnostic.

 

[GhettoButterFly]

I came across this article which suggests there's a link between autism and atheism because people with autism are less likely to be able to relate to a personal God. Do you guys go along with this? Are you a believer or not?

It's how one was raised. I do believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God. Then there is the Holy Spirit somewhere around there. Hence the Trinity. If you're wondering I am Catholic, you're wrong... I'm Baptist (not Southern Baptist or First Baptist). As for the first part of the question, I have no room say if I agree or not.

To answer the thread question: Yes. Definitely. I honestly get surprised when people on the spectrum admit to being anything other than atheist or agnostic as it's quite rare to find religious people in the ASD community. If I'd have to guess, I'd say that only 5% or less of people on the spectrum are religious.

I'm Agnostic.

Why are you surprised? There are some that don't frequent forums but mostly Facebook and real life. I been 'religious' as one would say, I just needed to be reintroduced later on in adulthood since it wasn't 'forced' upon me as a kid. I was raised with the values, but wasn't 'forced' to be Baptist or to go to a Baptist Church. We're not soulless and can believe in a religion (be it Christianity or any other religion for that matter).

Sigh... I better leave this topic be before I start getting bitter or feeling sour.

 

[arthurfakaya]

Interesting variety of responses in this thread. I expected that since it's claimed a lot of scientists are Aspies, and that since science generally equates with atheism, that Aspies would be less likely to be religious.

 

[christianmother27]

Interesting variety of responses in this thread. I expected that since it's claimed a lot of scientists are Aspies, and that since science generally equates with atheism, that Aspies would be less likely to be religious.

I'd like to preface by saying I have not gotten an official Aspie diagnosis, only a self-suspicion at this juncture.
That being said, I have been a Christian since I was around 12. My family was "Baptist" in a very loose sense of the word. Both my parents claimed they were "overchurched" as children and we only attended as a family a handful of times. I did receive some religious education from my grandmother - she was always telling me stories and would take me to church when she visited. In middle school, my second friend of my entire life attended a church, so I decided to go with her. I continued attending church even when she did not although I admit it made me highly uncomfortable to be around all the people I didn't know. When I would visit my other grandmother and grandfather (not the one I mentioned before), we would go to their church. That church has been the closest thing to "my church" that I have. I know a few people there, even today, from my childhood so it's not as uncomfortable as some of the other places I have been. I am most uncomfortable in big churches and most comfortable in small churches. The best church I was in probably had thirty people total, so although I did have to periodically socialize, it wasn't as "scary" as at a large church where I didn't even know people's names (and even at this small church I found I tended to "hide" behind my daughter who was a baby at the time lol... everyone loves a baby!)

As far as the logic of church... I think probably at first I was trying to fit in. My mom said she felt I was "easily brainwashed" by the people I would interact with at church - to the degree of I used to have a ouija board and tarot cards and I burned them due to the influence at the time. I don't regret this decision in hindsight, but I can see how it could be seen as drastic. As time has passed, I have actually learned about God and the Bible, and have come to see it as truth. I have listened to radio programs that included segments of Christian Science (which I found fascinating!) After exposure to all this information it has become impossible for me to NOT see how God could be the truth. To me, it makes more logical sense that there is a Creator, then that the world just "magically" exploded and happened to exist exactly as it does in order for earth to survive. Things such as if the chemical composition of oxygen was 1% more the entire earth would explode in a ball of fire, and if it was 1% less then all of life would suffocate and die. (I may be off on the numbers but it was something to that effect). It's difficult to explain and I guess people would label under the blanket of "faith" but it really does just make sense to me. I can see how God has touched everything around me. I see the patterns of His work. When there are trials in my life, I notice that He has provided ways out (and my life has been FILLED with troubles!) As a quick (hopefully) personal example, there was a point in time when I was unemployed and a single mom and I HAD to get a job. I applied at lots of places and could not seem to find anything suitable. There were places that would interview me but did not seem like it would be conducive to my having a child (read: man-friendly work environments). Finally I did find one that I interviewed with and I just knew that that was the one. It sounds silly but it was almost as though I were being TOLD that this were the one (not audibly of course). It's a sense of anxiety. When I feel anxious about things, I have noticed it's not the "right" decision. When I feel peace about something, it has always turned out to be the right choice. If you are unfamiliar with the Bible it says something to this effect - that you find peace following God's will. Anyways, this is getting kind of long.

Point - I am a Christian, and if I eventually get diagnosed Aspie as well then chalk another up for a religious Aspie.

 

[NeverEnder]

I'd like to preface by saying I have not gotten an official Aspie diagnosis, only a self-suspicion at this juncture.
That being said, I have been a Christian since I was around 12. My family was "Baptist" in a very loose sense of the word. Both my parents claimed they were "overchurched" as children and we only attended as a family a handful of times. I did receive some religious education from my grandmother - she was always telling me stories and would take me to church when she visited. In middle school, my second friend of my entire life attended a church, so I decided to go with her. I continued attending church even when she did not although I admit it made me highly uncomfortable to be around all the people I didn't know. When I would visit my other grandmother and grandfather (not the one I mentioned before), we would go to their church. That church has been the closest thing to "my church" that I have. I know a few people there, even today, from my childhood so it's not as uncomfortable as some of the other places I have been. I am most uncomfortable in big churches and most comfortable in small churches. The best church I was in probably had thirty people total, so although I did have to periodically socialize, it wasn't as "scary" as at a large church where I didn't even know people's names (and even at this small church I found I tended to "hide" behind my daughter who was a baby at the time lol... everyone loves a baby!)

As far as the logic of church... I think probably at first I was trying to fit in. My mom said she felt I was "easily brainwashed" by the people I would interact with at church - to the degree of I used to have a ouija board and tarot cards and I burned them due to the influence at the time. I don't regret this decision in hindsight, but I can see how it could be seen as drastic. As time has passed, I have actually learned about God and the Bible, and have come to see it as truth. I have listened to radio programs that included segments of Christian Science (which I found fascinating!) After exposure to all this information it has become impossible for me to NOT see how God could be the truth. To me, it makes more logical sense that there is a Creator, then that the world just "magically" exploded and happened to exist exactly as it does in order for earth to survive. Things such as if the chemical composition of oxygen was 1% more the entire earth would explode in a ball of fire, and if it was 1% less then all of life would suffocate and die. (I may be off on the numbers but it was something to that effect). It's difficult to explain and I guess people would label under the blanket of "faith" but it really does just make sense to me. I can see how God has touched everything around me. I see the patterns of His work. When there are trials in my life, I notice that He has provided ways out (and my life has been FILLED with troubles!) As a quick (hopefully) personal example, there was a point in time when I was unemployed and a single mom and I HAD to get a job. I applied at lots of places and could not seem to find anything suitable. There were places that would interview me but did not seem like it would be conducive to my having a child (read: man-friendly work environments). Finally I did find one that I interviewed with and I just knew that that was the one. It sounds silly but it was almost as though I were being TOLD that this were the one (not audibly of course). It's a sense of anxiety. When I feel anxious about things, I have noticed it's not the "right" decision. When I feel peace about something, it has always turned out to be the right choice. If you are unfamiliar with the Bible it says something to this effect - that you find peace following God's will. Anyways, this is getting kind of long.

Point - I am a Christian, and if I eventually get diagnosed Aspie as well then chalk another up for a religious Aspie.

Thank you for your post, christianmother27.

I am also a Christian (with Aspergers).

 

[SallySlips]

I do think that people on the spectrum are more likely to be atheist. I've often pondered this question myself. I've always been a very logic-based person, and religion doesn't fit into that frame of mind in my opinion. I've never been a religious person, from before I can remember. Even growing up in a semi-religious household, with a very religious extended family, it never seemed to click with me. I didn't start thinking seriously about it until I was around 13, and then I realized that I was an atheist. I have been for 13 years now.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

I think the real question is not so much do you believe in god as it is do you believe in religion. If you read on I am expressing my rational opinion of religion in general.

I personally believe in a higher power. However I cannot for the life of my make any religion, other than possibly paganism/wicca and maybe Buddhism, equate to what they think god should be. I believe in super natural things like life after death (its the only way I make what I think life is work), I believe in ghosts, I believe in the goddess. However I can't accept religion in any form.

I think people turn to religion because they want to believe in the inherent good in the world and they want to remove a few of life's bigger questions from their shoulders. If we believe in the religious contexts such as Christianity for instance then we accept that it is god's will when horrible things happen and that he has to have a plan for each of us. But if we take away those two things, we have to accept that this is no plan and that we have to find that plan for ourselves (something I have been looking into for a while and it is scary to try and work out what your purpose is without blind faith in a god) and we have to believe that some people are just abhorrent by nature.

When we believe god has a plan, we don't have to think about what we have to be in this world, we just rely on the fact that god will present us with a plan. It means you can rest assured you were put here for a purpose and that worry is now out of your mind because the alternative is to believe that you were just created because of a random chance and there is no purpose to life. This is why I think religion is largely successful. Surrendering yourself means that you have purpose in one form and that pushes aside those doubts of "why am I here?"

Religion also answers why some people do horrible things. The devil or what ever made them do it. No, I don't believe in the devil. I think people make their own decisions in life. And even someone who has survived some horrible things themselves still knows basics like if you kill someone that is bad. And on those big things its easy to say the devil made them do it because it removes blame and removes choice from the equation. This can also be viewed as an argument for war ... it wasn't me deciding to murder millions of people it was god.

So if you look at the logic in these couple of examples (I can go on with more) its not hard to see how a group of logical people (aspie's are by their nature curious and logical, well I believe that to be true) cannot believe in religion. Religion above all demands blind faith and Aspies just don't do blind anything. We chew over things, whether it be something that happened years ago or a matter of faith. A higher power is more logical to believe in because of all the arguments made, I don't think I've seen one that is convincing either way for a high power but personal experience tells me there is one. As this is a personal decision and a core belief I can see why aspies would accept this over religion ... its a decision that they come to on their own rather than be told what to think. Its a decision of belief that comes from personal experience and inner reflection. It maybe that it falls within a defined religion, but I'm guessing more often than not it doesn't.

So the real question is do you believe in god, religion or both?

 

[imagesbyholly]

The only real way to know would be to get an accurate count of people who believe in God and the percentage of population, then find out the percentage of diagnosed people with asperger's who believe in God. I strongly suspect I have asperger's and have never 'clicked" with people the way I have with folks here on AC, but I wouldn't be elligable for the study. Regardless, I am a christian.

As to Dragon's Tooth's question- the word religion is defined in many different ways by different people. The word is too vague. For example, the Christian doctrines (as supported by the bible, not made up by a pope or theologean) prohibits going and slaughtering people and worshipping religious relics. However, that is just what happened during the crusades. So people will say, "See- look what religion does! It causes wars and death!" But what was really happening was that people who claimed to do these thing s in the name of Christ or Christianity were actually directly going against obvious teachings of Jesus and others from their own holy book. They didn't know their book- and their leaders used some random verses taken out of context and the abhorrent authority that church leaders held over the general population. See, the religion had been state-ized. The state should always stay out of religion because they will corrupt it. However, Thomas Jefferson himself said that the state should stay out of religion (in this case christianity) and not sanction one particular sect SO THAT christianity would always be free to inform free people on political decisions (a little American history there). I'm only mentioning this to point out what happened historically.

Of course, my words could spark endless debate from people who are atheists or subscribe to other religions. This is not my intent. My intent is only to point out that religion is a loaded word, because two debating parties are often defining it completely differently. I would reccomend Francis Schaffer's book How Shall We Then Live? For both sides of the debate for more information on the effect philosophy and "religion," and specifically christianity, has had on history if you are interested in an objective synopsis.

That said, I know diagnosed aspies who believe in God. I suspect the percentage is similar to that of the general population. I also disagree that "logic" automatically discredits faith, religion, or the supernatural. True science is that which is observable, testable, and repeatable. The big bang hypothesis and atheistic hypothesis of origins are none of these things. Both are thus in the same position as religion- one must take them entirely on faith. The evidence is nowhere. Just well developed ideas. Even my biology teacher, who fully subscribed to the idea that we had decended from apes, explained to us why the Theory of Evoloution doesn't even count as a theory because there isn't enough evidence- it is only a hypothesis. People still talk about "Lucy" even though it has been discreditied, and "Nebraska Man" even though it turned out to be a fictional character built entirely from what turned out to be the tooth of a wild boar, not a pre-human. So our decision is, then, where will we put our faith? All mankind is inherantly religious. We all have a belief system for which some parts have no hard evidence. And we all worship something- be it ourselves, leaders, nature, one of many gods, etc.

 

[Geordie]

I believe in God, I see that some things are done (like murder of fellow human beings) because of exceptional circumstances, and I believe in a religious system.

I recognise, though, everyone is different.

But most Aspies I know are either very irreligious or very religious.

 

[total-recoil]

"Even my biology teacher, who fully subscribed to the idea that we had decended from apes, explained to us why the Theory of Evoloution doesn't even count as a theory because there isn't enough evidence- it is only a hypothesis."

Does he mean whether we developed directly from apes or the theory as whole? I think the theory as whole is really pretty rock solid. The human body is clearly the way it is through adaptation to environment and also it seems logical we at some times evolved from the sea, given we need to still take in water (or we die). We are a classic example of how a mammal can leave the water. Even when your eyes water this is an evolutionary reponse to, say, foreign bodies in the eye.
However, evolutionists don't always deny God. I don't think evolution means you don't believe in God but (like Einstein) many scientists believe in a sort of non Biblical God. Where we do differ with Orthodox religion is over the idea life was sort of instantaneous, when really it is something that developed in stages over long periods of time. Say, like, if you do weight resistance training your muscles gradually get bigger and stronger as they adapt to certain stresses. This is really what evolution means.

The only real way to know would be to get an accurate count of people who believe in God and the percentage of population, then find out the percentage of diagnosed people with asperger's who believe in God. I strongly suspect I have asperger's and have never 'clicked" with people the way I have with folks here on AC, but I wouldn't be elligable for the study. Regardless, I am a christian.

As to Dragon's Tooth's question- the word religion is defined in many different ways by different people. The word is too vague. For example, the Christian doctrines (as supported by the bible, not made up by a pope or theologean) prohibits going and slaughtering people and worshipping religious relics. However, that is just what happened during the crusades. So people will say, "See- look what religion does! It causes wars and death!" But what was really happening was that people who claimed to do these thing s in the name of Christ or Christianity were actually directly going against obvious teachings of Jesus and others from their own holy book. They didn't know their book- and their leaders used some random verses taken out of context and the abhorrent authority that church leaders held over the general population. See, the religion had been state-ized. The state should always stay out of religion because they will corrupt it. However, Thomas Jefferson himself said that the state should stay out of religion (in this case christianity) and not sanction one particular sect SO THAT christianity would always be free to inform free people on political decisions (a little American history there). I'm only mentioning this to point out what happened historically.

Of course, my words could spark endless debate from people who are atheists or subscribe to other religions. This is not my intent. My intent is only to point out that religion is a loaded word, because two debating parties are often defining it completely differently. I would reccomend Francis Schaffer's book How Shall We Then Live? For both sides of the debate for more information on the effect philosophy and "religion," and specifically christianity, has had on history if you are interested in an objective synopsis.

That said, I know diagnosed aspies who believe in God. I suspect the percentage is similar to that of the general population. I also disagree that "logic" automatically discredits faith, religion, or the supernatural. True science is that which is observable, testable, and repeatable. The big bang hypothesis and atheistic hypothesis of origins are none of these things. Both are thus in the same position as religion- one must take them entirely on faith. The evidence is nowhere. Just well developed ideas. Even my biology teacher, who fully subscribed to the idea that we had decended from apes, explained to us why the Theory of Evoloution doesn't even count as a theory because there isn't enough evidence- it is only a hypothesis. People still talk about "Lucy" even though it has been discreditied, and "Nebraska Man" even though it turned out to be a fictional character built entirely from what turned out to be the tooth of a wild boar, not a pre-human. So our decision is, then, where will we put our faith? All mankind is inherantly religious. We all have a belief system for which some parts have no hard evidence. And we all worship something- be it ourselves, leaders, nature, one of many gods, etc.

 

[gailt915]

I am also an Aspie christian. I am not, however, "religious". I consider it more in the spiritual catagory. I, too, was raised in a family that went to church every Sunday and believed in God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I do not go to church anymore, specifically because they all seem too "religious" and not really very 'spiritual'. My relationship with God is very personal, very unique. There have been many instances in my life that have proved to me that God exists and that He loves me. In fact, recently I had a meltdown in public over a cup of coffee (they got the order wrong..........hey, don't mess with my coffee!!), anyhoo, the manager saw that I was upset, we talked a bit, and she prayed with me.........I've always been an Aspie, but did not know it and have suffered my whole life....I have asked God for help, so many times. Well, 3 days after this embarassing episode, I discovered the Aspie quiz online, took it, and here I am!
That was a lot of personal info, but I believe God finally answered my plea for help.
For the most part, I am alone........family is many miles away and not very understanding....I have no friends. As the song goes, 'we all need someone we can lean on', I lean on God and he holds me up. It works for me!

 

[Needtobreathe]

As a CHRISTian nope...