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An alternative site to post your Artwork. (The site is called "Artfol")

Imaginatively_Cute

Eternity_Dreamers
My new Artwork Home

I've had a bit of trouble with Instagram, it feels too buggy for me (At least on PC)

I stumbled upon this site, and so far, the experience has been blissful.

Site name - Artfol.

Also more good news, they have actual measures to prevent art theft! Yay!
 
Well this is excellent timing, just last night I'd thought of maybe posting a topic to ask if anyone knew of any such sites... I'd been using DeviantArt for ages, but that place has issues.

Mostly I've been wanting somewhere to put my fractals where they can be seen by family (since I actually make a lot of those, though it's rare that I show them here), and maybe a bit of my drawings/paintings.
 
I've tried a few different art sites. The only thing that got me a lot of views was Star Trek fan art. That was eye opening. My own stuff - no one cares. Star Trek - My God, I've never seen numbers like this before!
 
I've tried a few different art sites. The only thing that got me a lot of views was Star Trek fan art. That was eye opening. My own stuff - no one cares. Star Trek - My God, I've never seen numbers like this before!

Yeah, unfortunately art is like that a lot. Plenty of people get their actual numbers from piggybacking on someone else's IP, and I can't really blame them for going that route, either. Think of all the no-name bands on spotify who have so many fans thanks to that one song they covered 10 years ago, lol :D
 
My new Artwork Home

I've had a bit of trouble with Instagram, it feels too buggy for me (At least on PC)

I stumbled upon this site, and so far, the experience has been blissful.

Site name - Artfol.

Also more good news, they have actual measures to prevent art theft! Yay!

Well this is excellent timing, just last night I'd thought of maybe posting a topic to ask if anyone knew of any such sites... I'd been using DeviantArt for ages, but that place has issues.

Mostly I've been wanting somewhere to put my fractals where they can be seen by family (since I actually make a lot of those, though it's rare that I show them here), and maybe a bit of my drawings/paintings.

Out of curiosity, what did you dislike most about Instagram and Deviantart, respectively? I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram (finally back on there again), but I've been eyeballing Deviantart as a possibly-better place to put my visual art, but Artfol might actually be better over all. I just have option paralysis now :D
 
Out of curiosity, what did you dislike most about Instagram and Deviantart, respectively? I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram (finally back on there again), but I've been eyeballing Deviantart as a possibly-better place to put my visual art, but Artfol might actually be better over all. I just have option paralysis now :D

Well, without going into detail, I can say that DA sometimes would... bring up stuff that wasnt exactly appropriate, and just fart it out onto the front page. If you know what I mean. I dont know if that's a common experience, but that's what happened for me every now and then. And that's with adult stuff being filtered out. And other times it would bring up stuff that doesnt QUITE count as that, but still is really pushing it a lot. And it could also just get... weird. To each their own and all, people can draw/paint whatever weirdness they want, but that aint anything I'd want family to have to be hit with if they try to go to the site to see what I might have made recently. Particularly if my brother wanted to go there, with his two kids. Making it easier for family to be able to see whatever it is I'm doing is the whole point of it for me, after all.

Heck, I went on there yesterday, with my fractal-tastic account, I just scrolled down a bit randomly, and... yeah, it threw a couple of problematic things in there. That account of mine, the entire favorites list is entirely fractal art and weird geometry. That's it, there's nothing else in there. Front page should be stuffed with those sorts, and it is... until I scroll down. Doesnt take long for it to get weird. The site seems to lose the thread of the theme real fast somehow. There is actually a lot of fractal art on DA, so it's not like it should be running out after a slight bit of scrolling.

As for Instagram... isnt that more of a social media site? Not an art-specific place? Definitely dont want to touch that. Heck, I went to have a look at it and it's one of those sites where you cannot even look at whatever the main page is without signing up, which... yeah, that's a big nope right there.


On the note of fractals though, an odd thing there is that when I went and did a search for that on Artfol, there was... nothing. None, nada. It brought up like, one guy who had like 5 mandalas posted and that was it. I guess mandalas kinda look like fractals, but still.
 
Well, without going into detail, I can say that DA sometimes would... bring up stuff that wasnt exactly appropriate, and just fart it out onto the front page. If you know what I mean. I dont know if that's a common experience, but that's what happened for me every now and then. And that's with adult stuff being filtered out. And other times it would bring up stuff that doesnt QUITE count as that, but still is really pushing it a lot. And it could also just get... weird. To each their own and all, people can draw/paint whatever weirdness they want, but that aint anything I'd want family to have to be hit with if they try to go to the site to see what I might have made recently. Particularly if my brother wanted to go there, with his two kids. Making it easier for family to be able to see whatever it is I'm doing is the whole point of it for me, after all.

That's interesting, because about a year ago, something similar was happening on IG; anyone looking for (or making) generative art was getting shown gross-out material that really skirted their rules. It was 'technically' appropriate for the platform, but it was really pushing those boundaries. Must've been some kind of algorithm mix-up, but I was able to verify that I wasn't the only one getting shown really weird stuff in the feed for no reason. Thankfully they patched it out, though.

As for Instagram... isnt that more of a social media site? Not an art-specific place? Definitely dont want to touch that. Heck, I went to have a look at it and it's one of those sites where you cannot even look at whatever the main page is without signing up, which... yeah, that's a big nope right there.

It's interesting because there are a lot of people posting their AI creations, generative art, creative code or fractals, but there's also that other side of IG where it's just celebrities and memes. Thankfully it's pretty easy to stay out of the latter side, but that definitely is what it's known for. I bet there's a lot of toxic stuff going on as usual but I just kind of stay in my own little corner over there :D

On the note of fractals though, an odd thing there is that when I went and did a search for that on Artfol, there was... nothing. None, nada. It brought up like, one guy who had like 5 mandalas posted and that was it. I guess mandalas kinda look like fractals, but still.

That can actually be a good thing, sometimes. Maybe that means that you'll get all the views if you post them there, which could be really cool. Being an early-adopter of a platform usually guarantees some kind of elite status later on, and you never really know what's going to take off. With that in mind, I'm actually more inclined to sign up and see what it's all about! Less over-saturation can really drive up the interest in your work!
 
That can actually be a good thing, sometimes. Maybe that means that you'll get all the views if you post them there, which could be really cool. Being an early-adopter of a platform usually guarantees some kind of elite status later on, and you never really know what's going to take off. With that in mind, I'm actually more inclined to sign up and see what it's all about! Less over-saturation can really drive up the interest in your work!

Yeah, that'd be nice.

I actually havent posted anything on DA in ages, usually things I make just get ignored, so it's like... why bother? Which can be a tad frustrating when the blasted things take hours to make and then ages to render.

On a side note, what do you mean by "generative art"? I'm not too familiar with that term.
 
If you don't use DA's groups, you won't get any attention. If you do post to groups, you might get a tiny amount of attention.

If you do fan art and post to groups, now we're talking. Or at least, it used to be that way. DA may have lost a bunch of people when they redesigned the site. I haven't been active on DA since then.
 
Yeah, that'd be nice.

I actually havent posted anything on DA in ages, usually things I make just get ignored, so it's like... why bother? Which can be a tad frustrating when the blasted things take hours to make and then ages to render.

On a side note, what do you mean by "generative art"? I'm not too familiar with that term.

Yeah, I end up feeling that way a lot, too. Especially if absolutely nobody is seeing stuff.

Generative art is a pretty vast term, but a lot of creative coders use it to describe anything made with algorithms, logic, math or RNGs (esepcially if it's not a stretch to make loads of variations from your work by changing a few numbers). Fractals would definitely fall into that category along with symmetric / mirrored art, or even just semi-random shapes plotted onto a background with code.

There are some awesome videos on GLSL and TouchDesigner that really push the concept to the max, but since I can't really render video / GPU stuff I stick to the 2D variety most of the time :D
 
Well this is excellent timing, just last night I'd thought of maybe posting a topic to ask if anyone knew of any such sites... I'd been using DeviantArt for ages, but that place has issues.

Mostly I've been wanting somewhere to put my fractals where they can be seen by family (since I actually make a lot of those, though it's rare that I show them here), and maybe a bit of my drawings/paintings.
lemme link rq

 
Yeah, that'd be nice.

I actually havent posted anything on DA in ages, usually things I make just get ignored, so it's like... why bother? Which can be a tad frustrating when the blasted things take hours to make and then ages to render.

On a side note, what do you mean by "generative art"? I'm not too familiar with that term.
Ai Art, is what he's referring to.
 
Ai art isn’t art as it’s only made with typing words into a generator and the generator spits it out for u instantly while art takes time, sometimes days or weeks, sometimes even months.
 
Ai Art, is what he's referring to.

Actually that's not the only meaning of it. Turns out, there's a LOT of types of generative art, and they've been around looooooooong before AI became a thing.

Here, look at this:

void_tangle_by_scrapfractals_dejskno.jpg


overhaul_by_scrapfractals_dekdla8.jpg




This is the sort of thing I was referring to in my post. Fractals, which are a type of generative art (though I didnt learn of that specific term until, well, super recently).

I often like to show off physical drawings I make here on the forums, but I'm primarily a fractal artist, which is what these are. An AI cannot make these. Not truly. The best an AI can do is sort of an... approximation of the idea of how a very basic fractal might look, but it outright doesnt have the ability to make real ones. These are not made out of some word prompt, and no AI is involved at all. The programs/techniques used to make things like this have been around LONG before any of that started, as has the concept of what a fractal is (look up the Mandelbrot). These are literally made of pure math. And I mean *heavy* math. That wiry thing... that took hours just to render that final image. It's just ONE object. Still took hours, on my powerhouse of a PC (or, what was a powerhouse PC at the time). This was after the 8 or 9 hours I spent creating it.

The second one is a different type of fractal, made in a different program... I have a suite of about 12 separate apps I use to make things. This one was the combination of three of them. The original fractal, some extra processing in a separate app, and then the application of kaleidoscopic formulas in a third app (which is in fact the only thing that third app does... turns out there's more to kaleidoscopes than I thought as a kid, hah).

Making these is more akin to making something in Blender.

Here, I actually did this workflow-example video awhile back, and it shows how these are made:


That's the program for making the Mandelbulb type of fractal (which is what that green wire thing is). I sped up the footage a lot there and the fractal image that was the end result was... simple, crude. Not something I'd actually consider a real finished product... I didnt upload that anywhere. It was made strictly to show off the "how", and trying to condense the FULL process... which can take hours and spam multiple apps... into one recording would have eaten my hard drive.

Fractals are weird things, they are literally infinite and recursive. That wire thing there? When working with it in the program used to create it, it doesnt matter how close you zoom in on it... you can always, always, always go deeper, and discover more structure further down. Same with the 2D ones. The deeper you go though, the more intense it is on your PC. Eventually, even the most powerful PC will be brought to its knees. AI images are generally always made in like, 20 seconds? These can range anywhere from about a minute to 20 hours for a final render (in my current experience on my current monster of a PC). And that's not counting the "mini-renders" that must be made as the fractal is altered and explored during the creation process. In the video you can actually see it sorta choking on itself a few times. Even sped up, the process is slow enough that it still shows. I actually bought my current PC with its selected hardware not for gaming, but for fractal rendering. Yet still, a difficult fractal will drain it so much that even the keyboard starts to get weird while the render is progressing (aka, the PC cannot do anything else until it is done, and a tough render like that usually takes a couple of hours).

I actually did a big post here on the forums awhile back that showcased the different apps I use, which can be found here:



Yeah I know, I'm rambling a bit here, but I do want to be 100% clear on the things I make, and what they truly are. Making these things is a lot of work, and learning enough to start to produce results that dont suck took months.

I've been working with these for a number of years now, and I still have a LOT to learn, and a lot of ways I can improve. There are plenty of other people who are far better at this than I am, that's for sure. I still consider myself a beginner. Currently I have a lot of my fractal creations up on DeviantArt, though once I move to anywhere else, I'll probably take all of those off of there and close out that account.

There's a lot of other types of generative art (that have nothing to do with AI) but I'm not the one to ask about those.
 
Ai art isn’t art as it’s only made with typing words into a generator and the generator spits it out for u instantly while art takes time, sometimes days or weeks, sometimes even months.

One thing the AI is good at is handling the craftsmanship side of art, which I don't always care for. The color palettes, lighting and shading are usually spot on. That stuff I file under "craft," not art. I really don't like to spend hours making the shadows correct, working out perspective, making sure everything is lit correctly. It's very tangential to what I want to do. It keeps me from what I want to do. I've seen an AI program that can start from a basic sketch and turn out variations that are realistically rendered. I can see using that and editing a nice render into what I want.

AI does amazing design work on its own though, and it could replace human designers if copyright could be assigned to AI art. I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'm better than the AI is.

Eventually AI would be able to create the entire entertainment experience, be it a movie or game or whatever. I don't see what humans have to offer, other than whatever value "human made" adds.
 
I don't see what humans have to offer, other than whatever value "human made" adds.

Well, that sort of is the point.

The idea is, if someone just types a prompt into a thing and that's all they do to get an image, well... there isnt exactly much skill based in that. There isnt much heart in it either. Skill, effort, and intent are all things that people generally value with art. It has meaning for that reason.

This doesnt just go for physical art, or digital art drawn with a tablet. Something like the fractals I made, or 3D creations made in Blender or a huge variety of other programs that are all about that, those also take a lot of time, skill, and effort, and can be very hard to learn, often requiring a giant blob of tutorials, or even full college courses to begin using. It creates value for that reason.

Besides, it's a bit more than just that. From the point of someone who likes to make stuff, well... if I just go in and type a quick bunch of words as I am now and then it just hands me something as a "final product"... where's the fun in that? Where's the challenge? Dont get me wrong, I mess around with MidJourney from time to time, but that's more of a "make goofy things and get a laugh" in a way similar to browsing through goofy memes (or at least that's how it is to me). A quick bit of fun for when I could do with a bit of a mood boost. Or sometimes I feed it two of my own creations... such as my fractals and/or drawings... to have it blend them together and just see what happens, for fun. But to actually *make* something with it? As a "finished product", so to speak? Nah. That's not interesting. I need a challenge for a creative task or hobby to hold my interest.

Granted, there have been two specific exceptions for me, when I needed AI for very specific types of image creation, but... I really dont want to talk about that in detail right now. The reasons and intent behind those two things are... well, related to loss. They are meant specifically for family, and were requested of me. I dont really like to think about those, but... they showed me that this tech has more applications than many would assume.
 
Ai Art, is what he's referring to.

You can definitely think of AI art as a subset of generative art, but believe it or not, a lot of generative art has traditionally used algorithms instead of strictly machine-learning, neural networks and web scraping (and it has probably existed as far back as the C64 or even earlier!). One example would be just telling the program (translated in human terms): 'plot a whole bunch of randomly-colored triangles randomly spaced in my canvas window with random sizes and save it for me 100 times!'. Each iteration will be different because you used random values for the RGB colors, where the triangles are positioned, and the size of each triangle, so you get 100 different images out of that whole ordeal. If you make it spicy enough and give it some love, you'll actually come up with some really interesting pieces.

Recursion and looping are common practices, too, which is basically like taking a program like Adobe Illustrator and using math to plot and calculate your shapes instead of doing it all with your mouse. The advantage, again, is that you can snowball iterations and do things that would be literally impossible to do by hand because we as humans can't always calculate 0.2 pixels away every time we plot another shape.

Here are a few I made the other day, as an example:

1695278891363.png
1695278908150.png

1695278864559.png


Strangely enough, the music I make is also considered generative art because it uses the same principles of randomness (or pseudo-random values, giving it some predictability), boolean logic (or conditional statements) and other things that the computer can interpret to then generate a result.


Needless to say, it's a wild world out there with computers and art. The mainstream unfortunately only pays attention to the really huge advancements when in reality, stuff like this is probably about as old as the earliest home computers.
 
The mainstream unfortunately only pays attention to the really huge advancements when in reality, stuff like this is probably about as old as the earliest home computers.

It sure has!

Do you recognize this at all?

Screenshot 2023-09-21 015953.png


In computer terms, this is really darned old. As in, "fully compatible with CGA monitors" levels of old. DOS, specifically.

A lot of nostalgia for me, I grew up with this.
 

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