Alienating yourself from others and that to do about it?

[csanon]

From my own personal experience as well as reading others on this forum, people with AS have a tendency to somehow alienate themselves from others- often leading to exclusion from social activities and feelings of isolation. I've sensed myself doing this lately with coworkers and other acquaintances, but the problem I don't know HOW I am doing it.

In other words, does anyone out there have any tips for figuring this out, or have a list or reference out there of what those things may be(-aka common to most people with AS)?

This is an area of my life that I'm dedicated to improving upon, but I just need a bit of a boost to get started.

 

[imagesbyholly]

i am working on this too. One thing I try is really working on friendliness that doesn't depend on others being friendly with me first, but also isn't needy or too intense. I have sort of been studying friendly people I know, but I haven't always had people like that to watch.

 

[King_Oni]

I don't know how much my input is worth here, since I'm not really that keen on socializing to start with. So alienating actually is what I want I guess.

But since I've gotten trouble during employment of alienating myself and had a talk with a supervisor about it I guess there's some knowledge to be had from that.

A big thing you can wonder if you're alienating yourself is how much you have in common with those people. Think about interests, topics, activities... when you end up doing those things on your own then I guess it's safe to say you alienate yourself.

I've been told (on a job in the past) that in order to be less alienated I'd have to pick up interests the majority of my co-workers were into so I actually had things to share with them. It pretty much came down to where I was expected to grow an interest in soccer just for the sake of having common ground. For me personally, that didn't (and doesn't) work. But the moment you have no idea what the people you want to mix in with are on about stuff you have no clue what they're on about, I guess it's fair to say your drifting away.

Thining about it a bit more in years... I don't mind being around people with the same interests that much. I can deal with those people perfectly... it's when I have to adapt my interests which makes me alienated a lot more.

However; I don't know what your interests are and in what way you're alienating yourself... if you have shared interests with say... co-workers, I wouldn't really have a lot of advice for you. Getting into stuff others are into is a way to get more social though. Most of the time... aspies tend to have a different perspective sometime... that doesn't sit well with some people. An example; if I were to watch any sport, I'd probably end up doing it with pen and paper making analysis, since that's how my brain works. I have no interest in that rush of excitement that's nothing more than "my team wins" which a lot of people have. Even that might already be weird and a way to alienate yourself.

It also shows that the gap between aspies and (presumably) NT people is a lot bigger and not just a "let's play along" type of thing.

 

[simplify]

I always felt I had more trouble getting along with people just because I didn't care about a lot of the stuff they did. I would get invited to go drink with co-workers on occasion, and while I appreciate the gesture I don't really like drinking... in hindsight, maybe I should have accepted.

I ended up making a decent number of friends by moving into a shared living situation with 5 guys around my age. They were very social and inclusive so I always felt welcome joining them, but they didn't pressure me so I could back out when I needed a break. It was a great setup. I have sinced moved and now I live with 2 other guys who are very introverted/reclusive so they don't really help me much. It's been harder since that move.

 

[HelloDizzy]

I'm also not big on socializing, but I do know that my keeping friends always required my participating in activities they liked. This often involved going out to eat, going to bars, and "hanging out" with their other friends. I would stop doing those things pretty quickly... why can't they do things I like, such as be quiet and edit novels? Talk about serial killers all day?
There's a lot of energy that goes into staying in a loop with people, and you have to be willing to pretend you're interested in their hobbies to do so.

There is also the issue of people being unable to read us and vice versa. It becomes very clear very quickly to people that I have maybe two emotions. This can make them uncomfortable, much like their constant display of an array of feelings often tires me out.

 

[King_Oni]

why can't they do things I like, such as be quiet and edit novels? Talk about serial killers all day?

Perhaps you got the "wrong" friends. If I have people to hang out with (AKA friends; since I feel there is no connection to co-workers except for a shared employer) I guess they have similar interests to some extent. The idea of hanging out with friends and doing stuff for the sake of doing something together while it's also directed towards what THEY want sickens me. Why are these people my friends even?

If people were quiet and would edit novels, no one would get out but I certainly share that feeling that socializing the way it's done nowadays is overrated and people should do more things on their own.

I've had a conversation with my girlfriend about this the other day. We used to talk on IM a lot. And every now and then I'd get a text of we'd talk through a mobile IM app. I don't mind talking to her, but it also keeps me from doing things I care about. And she wasn't even aware that she didn't do anything but be on IM. Now, we don't talk as much as we used to, but at least we both get **** done in terms of hobbies and personal projects. I sometimes wonder if all these "social" people don't have this notion of "getting stuff done out of personal interest" is actually being halted by that forced socializing.

There's a lot of energy that goes into staying in a loop with people, and you have to be willing to pretend you're interested in their hobbies to do so.

This actually poses a problem for some of us I think. It means giving up things you love and in a sense losing yourself. That by itself, is a rather dangerous thing if you ask me.

 

[eon]

i realized i actually do this from complex PTSD. i have this extreme automatic dodging of any involving others in anything. i dont want their help even if i might need it. i will go into some other avoidant way of handling anything. i have incredibly faulty emotional responses during any kind of interaction that i might begin to feel something from the other person, which sets off tremendous judgements by them that typically just create explosive responses in me.


anyway my point is that i was not receptive to the idea of ptsd as i was so far separated from any grasp of my self or identity, at first. that's the complex ptsd. it took a few years of identity in the framework of aspie discovery to get anywhere close to realizing my true problems that i need and want to crack open now.

my second point is i would not say that it is exactly a problem with social behavior specifically within aspie personality. we all have different personalities and aspie minds have a big tendency to be more engaged by some other subject and thus not extremely interested in the social ecosystems that are built up by most other people. however i think the skill of participating in those is not far out of the reach of aspie talent on a general level. you ought to take a look at the advantages in social items or scenarios that are part of the aspie discovery criteria by attwood and grey

 

[csanon]

This is all very interesting, but gives me some insight into what is going on. I'm going to compile all of the information provided by everybody on here as well as read the Discovery criteria by Attwood. At some point in the near future I will post my findings and analysis on here!

 

[Undiagnosed]

I do alienate myself from people, but it's o.k. with me. Most of my life I tried to spend time with people or go somewhere that other people in my family were going or whatever, something like go out to a bar or something like that. I look back and know that the main reason I did those things was becouse it was my way of trying to be or appear 'normal'. I don't care anymore if I am or appear 'normal'. I stay to myself more now than ever. I feel it's time for me to do what I feel like doing not what seems 'normal'. I guess there is something to be said for pushing yourself out of your comfort zone if that's what you feel you wanna do. I have been there and done that. No matter how much I tried to throw myself into social situations I never did get more comforable with it. Now I am just happy to do what is the 'real' me.

 

[Undiagnosed]

i realized i actually do this from complex PTSD. i have this extreme automatic dodging of any involving others in anything. i dont want their help even if i might need it. i will go into some other avoidant way of handling anything. i have incredibly faulty emotional responses during any kind of interaction that i might begin to feel something from the other person, which sets off tremendous judgements by them that typically just create explosive responses in me.


anyway my point is that i was not receptive to the idea of ptsd as i was so far separated from any grasp of my self or identity, at first. that's the complex ptsd. it took a few years of identity in the framework of aspie discovery to get anywhere close to realizing my true problems that i need and want to crack open now.

my second point is i would not say that it is exactly a problem with social behavior specifically within aspie personality. we all have different personalities and aspie minds have a big tendency to be more engaged by some other subject and thus not extremely interested in the social ecosystems that are built up by most other people. however i think the skill of participating in those is not far out of the reach of aspie talent on a general level. you ought to take a look at the advantages in social items or scenarios that are part of the aspie discovery criteria by attwood and grey

I understand. I will find ways of doing almost anything on my own too rather than to need someone else. I have a scooter to drive and for sseveral years no drivers licence for a car. I would drive my scooter in 90 degree weather and in cold and have in rain before too rather than to need to depend on someone for a ride. I bouht a winter cover all so I could get on my scooter in cold weather. I made a set of saddle bags from two soft cooleers that I could fill with groceries for my fammily. I can move an entire room of furniture by myself. I may have to sit on the floor and use my strongest body part- my legs to push the furnityre with my back against a wall for leverage. The furnitre will get to a point where I may have to lay on the floor to get leverage from the wall to move the peice as far as I want it. I bought my house by myslef even though I live on a small monthly ssi check and am single and so called disabled. I will drive around to thrift stores and rummage sales and buy stuff for .50 or 1.00 and list it on ebay to get some extra money to support my life and my kid. I hardley ever ask other people for anything. Not sure what you mean about pstd?

 

[Arashi222]

I don't think I purposely alienate myself from other people. I just find that unless we have some mutual interest we don't hang out we don't do anything. I talk about Dollies and and tv shows that I like often and things I collect. If you like those kind of things then we often become friends, but I have now discovered telling people I have AS ahead of time so that they understand what they are getting into or give them opportunity to get away before I become attached. Because I do become attached then get very upset when that person doesn't want to be friends anymore for whatever reason they think I am the insane one for asking for a schedule of events or to be where they say they will be and not promise me something that they can't deliver on. So I tend to stick to myself and do what I do and if someone wants to be my friend then I watch them with other people first to make my decision. I don't try to alienate people it just sometimes happens.

@Undiagnosed PTSD is an acronym for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is defined as follows in an abbreviated format it was rather long:
A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:
(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others
(2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.
B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:
(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.
(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.
C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma)
E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month.
F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more
Specify if:
With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor

yes I copied this from the DSM IV website. But this might help you to understand what constitutes by professionals what PTSD is and why people can experience it in many forms from many types of things that happen in their lives. I just thought it might help you.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I don't think I purposely alienate myself from other people. I just find that unless we have some mutual interest we don't hang out we don't do anything. I talk about Dollies and and tv shows that I like often and things I collect. If you like those kind of things then we often become friends, but I have now discovered telling people I have AS ahead of time so that they understand what they are getting into or give them opportunity to get away before I become attached. Because I do become attached then get very upset when that person doesn't want to be friends anymore for whatever reason they think I am the insane one for asking for a schedule of events or to be where they say they will be and not promise me something that they can't deliver on. So I tend to stick to myself and do what I do and if someone wants to be my friend then I watch them with other people first to make my decision. I don't try to alienate people it just sometimes happens.

@Undiagnosed PTSD is an acronym for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is defined as follows in an abbreviated format it was rather long:
A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:
(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others
(2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.
B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:
(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.
(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.
C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma)
E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month.
F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more
Specify if:
With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor

yes I copied this from the DSM IV website. But this might help you to understand what constitutes by professionals what PTSD is and why people can experience it in many forms from many types of things that happen in their lives. I just thought it might help you.

Thanks Arashi. I did know what PTSD is in general, not all the details you gave me though, so that dose help. Thank you. I was wondering how tthat applied to eon as avoididng any involvment with people. I do the same and wonder if that may applie to me also.

 

[csanon]

Thanks again all. The responses to this have been phenomenal. I've come up with the following:

Causes:

Valuing different traits (such as logic, memory, intelligence, accuracy and honesty) than others (such as sensitivity, generosity, helpfulness) and having a different perspective on life

Not having common interests with the people involved, and not interested in learning about them

Dislike for small talk and chit chat

PTSD from past negative social experiences

Natural desire to spend more time with objects than people

Anxiety associated with the social interactions themselves and doing things “right”


What to do about it (only if it distresses you and is something you want to change):

studying friendly people and observing how they do it

Be willing to engage in at least a little chit chat while getting to know a person

focus on people with at least some common interests or personality traits only

Don’t worry about doing the “right” thing and don’t force friendships

Be flexible and sometimes do different activities or meet at different times than what is convenient for you even if it involves breaking your routine

Express what traits you value (eg. Logic) to others so that they can understand the way you think and process information