AA sucks.

[Yeshuasdaughter]

I can't do twelve step groups or any group therapies anyway. I black out in groups of strangers. And like I don't even hear what they're saying.

 

[Aspychata]

This group isn't working. It's just time to move on. You have an understanding of what you went thru. You aren't delusional. You do accept that your family is very dysfunctional. Like many other families. So going thru a dysfunctional group that guilt shames you to control you (AA), it's not working.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

If someone tells you to apologize to someone who molested you as a child, they can just f right off. No offense.

I'm really into making amends, but not with those people.

God bless you.

 

[ra49]

I don't know if this will help, but in every region there is a central AA administrative office. Without outing anyone in the group that you already attended, you could approach the central office to ask if there is a local group that specifically helps people with your history

Having been where you are in many respects, I wish you good results

 

[Poppy98]

Try telling that to my last sponsor. I am the asshole because I am angry I was sexually abused as a child? I should forgive and let it go because I am the asshole? Seriously, NO to that.

he sounds like an idiot. Anger is there to keep you safe when a boundary is being demolished. I think he's projecting something onto you that has nothing to do with your life.

I've heard about the way people minimize abuse from mothers and it's truly revolting. When does any person have more power to abuse without consequences than a parent, especially a mother.


It's clearly not logical.

 

[Judge]

Here is an update. I had a two hour talk with one of my closest friends, who is not a 12 stepper. I should focus on the progress I have made and the progress I continue to make. I also have a room for rent available on the other side of the country if I want it.

Distancing yourself from family and bad memories might be a great option.

 

[thejuice]

Assholes Anonymous is better off without my participation.

Seeing as most of the men there are predators who will jump on any young woman who goes there looking for help to stop drinking, I want nothing more to do with those people.

What is your plan?

The custom in AA is men for men, women for women. Relationships consisting of two dysfunctional adults is a well worn path to self destruction, any relationship on the outside is heavily discouraged as a break up is a relapse waiting to happen. Anyone doing that is not taking their sobriety journey seriously..

If the group is small then perhaps a sponsor of the opposite sex will be tolerated out of necessity, it is not an absolute rule. However there are plenty of meetings where the Big Book's recommendation of a healthy separation of genders will be enforced as far as it practically can be. They are all volunteers after all.

People are people though, alcoholics are deceptive, impulsive and willful, things happen, you'll find that behaviour wherever alcoholics are. Find another meeting if the culture is so poisoned or another recovery process.

AA is just one way to do it, it's easy to find fault and less easy to take a personal inventory of one's character flaws. I've been sober almost 15 years but I feel I need to revisit it, complacency can lead to relapse. Tackling resentment is like playing whack-a-mole, especially the more justified it is.

I think the most important ingredient in recovery is belonging to a community. You might find some A type personalties here who like total independence but an addict usually self isolates because their drinking has become socially undesirable and they wish to conceal it. Disconnected people suffer, it's generally highly stressful, creating a need to self medicate anxiety, which is a self perpetuating cycle.

 

[thejuice]

Thank you for your explanation- for helping me to understand your thought process and perspective.

I do acknowledge the scenarios you describe happen...but I think it's unfair to presume the sort of thing you describe matches every alcoholic's story. (Ditto for assuming the stories of their friends and family.)

Not everyone acts the same when intoxicated just like not everyone acts the same when sober. I have known alcoholics who kept their drinking so secret nobody ever knew -- and who drank so heavily for such a long time they ended up in medical detox to make sure they didn't die from AWS seizures when they were ready to stop. (And I know death is rare but it does happen)

Some with addictions lash out, some don't.

Some will steal or beg to support their habit, others won't (many people end up sexually exploited to support an addiction while never exploiting anyone else - men and women alike).

And not all friends and family are hurt in the ways you describe.

Even those who are indirectly hurt (as in not by mistreatment, violence, exploitation, betrayal of trust; but by worry, or the pain of social distance or disappointment as the person hides their struggle or cannot function normally etc...or the pain of losing someone to an overdose ) ... not all of us think that person is to blame and should apologize.

One of my best and closest friends in this world died from an overdose.

When he was alive I worried about him when he was using, and I missed him when things were bad and he disappeared instead of reaching out.

But I was not angry, and I did not ever feel victimized by him nor did I think his drug use was a simple choice he made. I knew about his childhood and the pain he carried -- I knew how hard he tried to heal.

He never mistreated me or anyone as far as I knew. Even when using he was one of the most gentle and generous people I ever knew (both materially and emotionally) to the extent he had anything to give.

I was never angry, and I never blamed him. I would have been be horrified if he tried to aplogize to me for any hurt I ever felt related to his addiction, including (if it were possible) his death.

I have only ever grieved him since he died, and when he was alive I felt bad for him -- but never because of him. It was not his fault what was done to him. And his drug use was him doing his best to live with the pain.

He went to NA. He went to rehab more than once. He tried. And even if he had never tried to heal and get clean and sober, or to just manage his use, I still would not have judged him, I would not have faulted him, and I would not have blamed him.
__________
I had another friend, he was addicted to meth and he had a drinking problem.

He never stole from me or mistreated me either. Actually he protected me from people who might have done those things and from sexual predators and taught me quite a lot about personal safety, and I know he was exploited...I found out how badly when I learned I was the only one of his "friends" (many of them were absolutely not his friends) his mother liked and trusted to come to their house.

And I protected him sometimes too -- had to herd him back to my house sometimes when we were out late, he was wasted, and he had no way to get home...he was silly mostly, but sometimes obnoxious and mildly inappropriate. It was stressful, exhausting. But I feel he owes me zero apololgies for the times I lost sleep and became overwhelmed and exhausted keeping an eye on him until he sobered up. He owes me zero apologies for anything. I chose to support him, and I chose to hang out with him when I knew he might be annoying and obnoxious - he didn't make me...and its not like sober people are never obnoxious, annoying, or abusive. He was my friend and a very kind and gentle and moral person. I accepted him as he was, and loved him as he was
__________
I dated a guy who was a seriously mean drunk. I, like his friends, would just walk out when he got wasted and started being a jerk. It didn't happen often and if it had our relationship would have been a lot shorter. He did apologize when this happened (only twice) which was good. I forgave him, because he earned it.

I never saw his drinking as just a selfish choice he should be ashamed of...I knew a lot about his life childhood, too, and I saw his drinking as something that he needed help with - a struggle worthy of compassion and support. (At the same time as I had clear boundaries what I would put up with or not.)
____________

I grew up around addiction . I know the damage done to people. I have been robbed by people supporting a habit. But I also know that addiction is more than a simple choice, and in most cases rooted in pain.

I worked with street involved youth and many had very severe addictions.

And I share this just to say, I am not ignorantly unaware of how bad people's behaviour can get, in all kinds of ways.

Just to show you not everone is the same, and to explain why I will never assume that just because someone is an alcoholic or addicted to something else that they have directly harmed others in ways they should apologize for;

Sometimes that may be the case but sometimes it isn't.

And the last thing an innocent person seeking support for addiction rooted in trauma needs is to be revictimized by spurious accusations based in presumption leading to insistence they have something to apologize for;

Especially when they're getting told they need to apologize to their actual-wrondoing abusers who are presumed to be the victim only because are presumed to have no addiction and didn't initiate a no-contact situation since they have no need for one, being the perpetrator...this is a good example of why assuming and passing judgement about someone without actual knowledge of the specific situation for that particular individual you're judging is such a bad thing to do.

That's an interesting, thoughtful perspective thank you for sharing.

 

[the_tortoise]

That's an interesting, thoughtful perspective thank you for sharing.

Thank you for reading and for your response