Yet another shooting, yet another "Aspergers Syndrome" diagnosis

[Tarragon]

Gunman wrote his experiences at British prep school led to shooting spree - Telegraph

I am getting more than a little fed up of (a) shootings (is this some sort of copycat thing going on, as it seems to be happening more and more frequently?!) and (b) Aspergers Syndrome keeps getting mentioned in relation to it.

We all know life is more complicated than just a simple "oh, he/she had Asperger's syndrome, that explains it" but I am wondering if it is going to go in that direction. Certainly, mentioning that the shooter was an aspie will fix that idea in the publics mind more and more. Aspergers Doesn't Make People Murdering Psychotics!

Reading the article and some of the quotes this person is reported to have said doesn't make me feel he is a typical aspie as found here on AC for example. He just comes across as a psychotic delusional with arrogant thoughts and delusions of grandeur. That isn't typical Aspergers.

I just wish newspapers would point this out rather than just mentioning that the murderer had Aspergers.

 

[Ereth]

Nothing in this article, or any others I've seen about the incident, implies that this young man's ASD was driving his violent impulses or is somehow responsible for his behavior. In fact, this is the first one I've read that even mentions he had ASD, so you're getting worked up before anything like what you're describing has even happened. There are more productive ways to handle this.

When shootings happen, it's pretty natural to want to understand the perpetrator's mental state, and as long as people don't get carried away and start thinking that all mental illnesses and differences are causative of violent behaviors, there's nothing wrong with that, IMHO.

I'm obviously not a doctor, but it sounds like his ASD was probably comorbid with at least one other condition---maybe narcissistic personality disorder.

And no, this doesn't appear to be any sort of copycat crime. This happened because a highly disturbed individual had access to firearms and ammunition.

To be honest, shootings happen every day and very few people seem to care unless there are are a number of victims or the shooter has some kind of mental illness. And even then, the outrage dies down after a while for most people. They move on. And that's shite.

I think this is a far more important question to address right now. We have to stop acting like violent crime is just something people have to live with.

 

[Judge]

I'm obviously not a doctor, but it sounds like his ASD was probably comorbid with at least one other condition---maybe narcissistic personality disorder.

I was wondering the same, given the degree of mental health assistance he had. But hearing the media keep focusing on Aspergers Syndrome alone is making me ill. The media loves to find something like this and milk it like a cow...even if they are wrong.

The hostility I see in NTs posting in other forums about this is scary. Pushing the notion that we are mentally ill and not simply neurologically "different".

 

[GoofKing]

Mother ****ing media and this whole Goddamn ****ing scapegoat blaming ! Sorry for the language people but this new trend of the inept media scares the hell out of me because of the way people would start treating future Aspies and Auties and you guys. Plus more trolls and nasty little shits on the internet would start harassing us more because some people are just too ****ing stupid to open their eyes and read between the lines! Damn hatred is easier than using a brain for simple things like reading and thinking for ones self -____-

 

[Ereth]

I was wondering the same, given the degree of mental health assistance he had. But hearing the media keep focusing on Aspergers Syndrome alone is making me ill. The media loves to find something like this and milk it like a cow...even if they are wrong.

The hostility I see in NTs posting in other forums about this is scary. Pushing the notion that we are mentally ill and not simply neurologically "different".

Yes, it's scary, but we can't let it scare us so much that we start acting like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off. The proper way to respond to media shortcomings and to anybody foolish enough to apply one event to a whole group of people is to continue advocating for ourselves in a rational, calm manner. We don't need to respond to hostility with hostility. That does nothing for our case.

And Goof, honestly, you'll fare far better if you learn to stop caring what Internet trolls think. They will always find somebody to pick on, and they respond to logical arguments with more immaturity. It's not worth the trouble.

 

[wyverary]

I agree with Ereth, and I also think that a good many people are smart enough to consider that it's probably not his AS, but some other co-morbid disorders (this guy definitely had some SERIOUS issues). Not all NT's are completely oblivious.

I also feel I should remind everyone, I don't want to see this thread devolve into NT-bashing or an argument about gun control (which is a politically-sensitive issue, and therefore not allowed on this forum). This thread might be more heavily moderated than usual.

 

[Ereth]

Not all NT's are completely oblivious.

Most aren't, really. With better advocacy (for all neurological/mental health issues, and not just autism) and better education, public understanding of the people who live with such conditions continues to improve every day. And we can turn this tragedy into another opportunity to promote that understanding.

 

[GoofKing]

Sorry guys

 

[Judge]

We don't need to respond to hostility with hostility. That does nothing for our case.

Hostility, Ereth? That's a bit of an exaggeration to say the least. This was my response to an incendiary posting outside this forum:

"ASD (formerly known as Aspergers Syndrome) means being neurologically different. Not neurologically deficient. It isn't a crime nor should it be a scarlet letter to have ASD any more than it is to be left-handed or homosexual."

Nothing hostile. Simple and the point...however without just allowing such people to walk all over us.

 

[Ereth]

I wasn't calling anyone here hostile, okay? I was just reminding everyone that that's what we have to avoid.

 

[Daniel]

Regarding the backlash from this--I'm interested to see how much gets directed towards Asperger's and how much goes towards first-person shooter video games, which he had played heavily. How about bullying, pornography, divorce, and unstable family environments, too? They all fed the spiritual void inside him.

If you go by the numbers, very few spree killers have been Aspies! (And all of them have been male...) Practically all of them had sad, marginalized existences leading up to their horrific deeds.

I read a good chunk of the kid's manifesto, basically a 140-page suicide note. I can't help but feel--there but for the grace of God go I. I know what's it's like to feel like puberty shattered the innocence of my world. (It's nice to have let go of stuff like that!) I remember being lost in my own head.

The way he obsessively recalled the details of his downward spiral into isolation... It felt familiar to me. Obviously my heart goes out to the victims and their families first and foremost, but I've felt pain like this kid did and I know how it can mess up one's thinking.

After a while I started skimming ahead to subsequent chapters because it was just the same thing again and again--someone else starts getting involved with girls and he has another person to hate. He broke the thing down by his age; each year he became more enraged that others were reaching some plateau he would never see.

It was sad to see his thinking become more detached and delusional--obsessing about fascism, craving the power to implement an asexual totalitarian regime, thinking he was going to win the lottery and get the wealth that would bring him the sex he craved, and then being devastated when once again, he didn't win.

And it was disturbing to see how he started acting out against those whom he despised and envied, and got progressively worse--starting by spraying people at a park with a Super Soaker full of Gatorade (because they were guys and good-looking girls having fun together), then throwing coffee at women at a bus stop as he drove by (because they didn't show interest in him as he, a complete stranger, walked by), and later trying to push people off a ledge at a party (where he ended up falling himself, breaking his leg, and getting pummeled when he still kept trying to attack people--again, complete strangers).

After finishing with the document, I came away feeling grateful for the people I've had in my life who have loved me and cared for me. It sounded like this kid's family didn't have a clue what to do with him. In a nurturing environment, he probably could have grown to be a pretty good writer.

I am also taking away from this a resolve to live a life according to my own values, and not those of the NTs around me. This kid got it so horribly wrong.

 

[Tarragon]

I just wanted to mention about the whole "he had aspergers" inclusion in the article and then it moved on. Its sloppy reporting and not accurate.

I read an interview in a UK newspaper yesterday from the parent of a shooter from a couple of years back. It did mention aspergers, but was a deeper interview and the serious problems not related to aspergers were mentioned in much more detail.

So, this thread is not about guns. Its about the press misrepresenting aspergers in criminal cases, painting aspergers as a primary reason for criminality.

I do not want this thread descending into a row over guns.

 

[Ereth]

Regarding the backlash from this--I'm interested to see how much gets directed towards Asperger's and how much goes towards first-person shooter video games, which he had played heavily. How about bullying, pornography, divorce, and unstable family environments, too? They all fed the spiritual void inside him.

With every violent incident featuring a perpetrator who liked violent video games, there has been a backlash. But an unhealthy interest in such games aren't a cause---they're a symptom of a deeper problem, which was obviously the case with this young man. No doubt it will happen again here in some discussions.

If you go by the numbers, very few spree killers have been Aspies! (And all of them have been male...) Practically all of them had sad, marginalized existences leading up to their horrific deeds.

That's because very few people with autism, and very few people with mental illnesses/differences in general, are violent. The violent individuals are a small fraction of the rest of the population.

I just wanted to mention about the whole "he had aspergers" inclusion in the article and then it moved on. Its sloppy reporting and not accurate.

How is it inaccurate to mention that he was diagnosed with Asperger's? The article never claimed it was responsible for his behavior. That would have been irresponsible reporting. The mention of Asperger's was just an additional detail about Rodger's background.

 

[Tarragon]

inaccurate to mention that he was diagnosed with Asperger's? The article never claimed it was responsible for his behavior. That would have been irresponsible reporting. The mention of Asperger's was just an additional detail about Rodger's background.

That is technically true. It is the way it was written which is the issue. I worry that kids with ASD might get picked on over these sort of "guilty by association" articles by kids dumb enough to not understand the whole picture (and that's a lot of kids....)

 

[Ereth]

That is technically true. It is the way it was written which is the issue. I worry that kids with ASD might get picked on over these sort of "guilty by association" articles by kids dumb enough to not understand the whole picture (and that's a lot of kids....)

I saw no problem with how it was written. It didn't implicate his autism as the cause of his violence at all. Only someone prone to jumping to false conclusions or who lacks basic reading comprehension skills would make such an assumption.

 

[Tarragon]

I saw no problem with how it was written. It didn't implicate his autism as the cause of his violence at all. Only someone prone to jumping to false conclusions or who lacks basic reading comprehension skills would make such an assumption.

touché

 

[GoofKing]

touché

The Touche is me accusing people of having no reading skills when I don't appear to have any ... I'm always jumping to stupid ass conclusions and raging for no apparent reasons ...

 

[Tarragon]

The problem is, people only need the smallest excuse to act crumby to others. Mud sticks, as they say.

 

[GoofKing]

The problem is, people only need the smallest excuse to act crumby to others. Mud sticks, as they say.

Yep and even the nicest and humblest forum members like myself can show their ugly true colors, maybe I should delete this account if possible :|

 

[Tarragon]

Yep and even the nicest and humblest forum members like myself can show their ugly true colors, maybe I should delete this account if possible :|

nope, don't do that. This thread is about the dangers of associating Aspergers with a cause, because people jump quickly with information. I don't want you feeling upset.