Why is "high intellect" associated with Asperger's?

[Hurting89]

For one reason or another - no make that because of the media, Asperger's is thought of as a consequence of "genius".

Even some medical professionals make that silly mistake of assuming Asperger's and giftedness go together.

This is a silly and prejudice stereotype. Asperger's is not associated with having a high I.Q or being a "tech wizard" it is a collection of behaviours that impairs someone's ability to function in the social world. It is a developmental issue, not the "down side" of genius. In my opinion Asperger's is completely irrelevant to I.Q.

I don't understand why this stereotype keeps getting pushed out there. It's even listed in autism advocacy sites about the "high intellect of the common aspie". Silliness.

 

[Hurting89]

Off topic slightly, but look at the bell curve. 97% of the population (if not higher) has an I.Q in the average range of at least 100. Less than 1% have an I.Q above 135. Genius is incredibly rare.

 

[hyperreal]

I don't believe that Asperger's and giftedness necessarily go together. I do agree that it is ridiculous to promote that idea. The media seems to have this false conception that Aspies are like wizards in a neurotypical muggle world. I've met plenty of real Aspies as well as self-professed Aspies who were intellectually dull as far as I could tell. I also don't like when people try to say that genius scientists like Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton had Asperger's syndrome or some such so as to glorify Asperger's. Sure, they had personality traits that are commonly associated with Asperger's and HFA, which undoubtedly played a role in their success as scientists, but that doesn't necessarily mean they had these conditions.

In my amateur opinion, there does seem to be a sort of Asperger's Personality that is considered to be ego-syntonic while Asperger's syndrome itself is ego-dystonic, similar to OCD and OCPD, and this set of personality traits does seem to be more conducive to scientific endeavors. But I would think that both Asperger's syndrome and the Asperger's personality are modified by intelligence. It would be like the difference between an Aspie being obsessed with, say, door closers (yes, I have met an Aspie like this) and an Aspie being obsessed with electronics and computers. It doesn't mean the latter kind of Aspie is an absolute genius, but it does say a lot about their intelligence. I would like to think that most of the Aspies I know who have scientific/intellectual interests are of above average intelligence, but I doubt that any of them are in the genius range.

 

[Beverly]

Blame the media for that one. Most of the time when we see stories about autism, savants are presented so, the media has built the perception that if you are autistic, you must be a savant in something. The masses also know very little and hear Autism Spectrum Disorder and, assume you must be autistic, as in barely capable of speech, or you can't feed yourself or something. They forget that there is a range on the spectrum.

 

[hyperreal]

Blame the media for that one. Most of the time when we see stories about autism, savants are presented so, the media has built the perception that if you are autistic, you must be a savant in something. The masses also know very little and hear Autism Spectrum Disorder and, assume you must be autistic, as in barely capable of speech, or you can't feed yourself or something. They forget that there is a range on the spectrum.

Well said, Beverly.

 

[Nitro]

There is no guarantee of anything on the spectrum,much the same as in any human being.
I unfortunately fall into the upper reaches of their Bell curve and still have to ask questions to learn even more. IQ is just a measurement of the ability to learn.

 

[Hurting89]

I don't believe that Asperger's and giftedness necessarily go together. I do agree that it is ridiculous to promote that idea. The media seems to have this false conception that Aspies are like wizards in a neurotypical muggle world. I've met plenty of real Aspies as well as self-professed Aspies who were intellectually dull as far as I could tell. I also don't like when people try to say that genius scientists like Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton had Asperger's syndrome or some such so as to glorify Asperger's. Sure, they had personality traits that are commonly associated with Asperger's and HFA, which undoubtedly played a role in their success as scientists, but that doesn't necessarily mean they had these conditions.

In my amateur opinion, there does seem to be a sort of Asperger's Personality that is considered to be ego-syntonic while Asperger's syndrome itself is ego-dystonic, similar to OCD and OCPD, and this set of personality traits does seem to be more conducive to scientific endeavors. But I would think that both Asperger's syndrome and the Asperger's personality are modified by intelligence. It would be like the difference between an Aspie being obsessed with, say, door closers (yes, I have met an Aspie like this) and an Aspie being obsessed with electronics and computers. It doesn't mean the latter kind of Aspie is an absolute genius, but it does say a lot about their intelligence. I would like to think that most of the Aspies I know who have scientific/intellectual interests are of above average intelligence, but I doubt that any of them are in the genius range.

I actually don't believe Albert Einstein was even on the spectrum, the autism advocates just like to say that to give aspies a "self esteem booster" of some kind. There was a random interview I came across somewhere of a woman claiming "without Asperger's there would be no Silicon Valley" and "it's a gift". Again, society REALLY has got this one mixed up. Because of T.V and incorrect information people think Asperger's is something entirely different than it is.

Another thing, the idea that a person has to have "normal intellect" to be an aspie (medical professionals even believe this) isn't true either. I knew a girl a long time ago that was labelled as mildly intellectually disabled (and that she was) but she had text book aspie traits off the charts.

She would talk at length about medieval times, bringing in books on this and constantly reciting it to the class. There was so many other behaviours too. But.. according to the DSM she could never be diagnosed.

 

[Crossbreed]

Actually, it is the other way around. Having been around gifted NTs, without exception, they have been able to switch into Aspergers mode quite fluidly. Profound intellectual giftedness might even be considered another expression of neuro-diversity (because it involves a thinking style so different than regular NTs).

As a Twice-Exceptional, I do not have the ability to switch into the NT mode in the same fashion.

I liken it to handedness:

• Regular NTs are like right-handers,
• Autistics are like left-handers (of varying dexterity) and
• Gifted NTs are like the ambidextrous.

Gifted and Aspies share traits that are not commonly seen among regular NTs. That is why the two are often compared. (And, yes, savantism appears to be in the same family of conditions.)

 

[Crossbreed]

There was a random interview I came across somewhere of a woman claiming "without Asperger's there would be no Silicon Valley" and "it's a gift".

That was Temple Grandin.

Even when Aspies are not gifted, they still function as specialists in their chosen field of interest.

 

[hyperreal]

That was Temple Grandin.

Even when Aspies are not gifted, they still function as specialists in their chosen field of interest.

Indeed. The Aspie I knew who had a door closer obsession, she knew about all different kinds and brands of door closers and which ones were better suited to certain situations, et cetera. She is an expert on door closers, but she is not very intellectually endowed.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

I think another reasom people think this is because as an average we have higher IQs than people without asperger's, but the only reason for that is because of the minimum IQ which is required to be 70 for diagnosis.

Another thing, the idea that a person has to have "normal intellect" to be an aspie (medical professionals even believe this) isn't true either. I knew a girl a long time ago that was labelled as mildly intellectually disabled (and that she was) but she had text book aspie traits off the charts.

That'd be diagnosed as autism then, and HFA if she was high functioning, which is a HFASD like AS so almost the same. Which is why America has made sense by combining autism and AS into ASD.

 

[Crossbreed]

Roughly, our doctors used the following standards:

• Non-verbal = low-functioning,
• Verbal + lower IQ = high-functioning,
• Average to above average IQ = Aspergers

 

[Hopeless_Aspie_Guy]

Why is "high intellect" associated with Asperger's?

Because of Sheldon Cooper (Big Bang Theory).

 

[granolaturtle]

Roughly, our doctors used the following standards:

• Non-verbal = low-functioning,
• Verbal + lower IQ = high-functioning,
• Average to above average IQ = Aspergers

That seems kind of flawed, because non-verbal people can be completely intelligent, but simply unable to speak without a device. (there was a book written by a nonverbal 14 year old, called 'The Reason I Jump') You can have several sensory, communication and other issues but have a 'normal IQ'.

Honestly, I'm kind of glad my country got rid of the 'Asperger's' category altogether. I'm categorized as HFA, and I'd be shocked if people assumed that meant that I wasn't intelligent.

 

[Crossbreed]

That was about 13 years ago. I am sure alternate forms of communication figure into the calculation. (There weren't many examples of non-verbal AND intelligent at that time.)

I'm categorized as HFA, and I'd be shocked if people assumed that meant that I wasn't intelligent.

I don't think everyone agreed about what was considered to be HFA.

 

[Nitro]

Non-verbal is only the inability to use speech. It is very important to remember that the IQ tests were formed by people who could communicate. There would be no way of knowing what was going on in a brain without communication,therefore it would only be a guess on the behalf of a professional

 

[Beverly]

You know, some of those gifted NTs that slide into Aspie mode so readily might not be NT at all, they might be Aspies who have the ability to use their NT façade for extended periods and, do so nearly flawlessly, like me. The might just be really smart, really talented Aspies for whom memorizing social rules and cues and, acting come easily - along with whatever else the excel at. Might be more of us in the forefront of more fields that you think.

 

[clg114]

You know, some of those gifted NTs that slide into Aspie mode so readily might not be NT at all, they might be Aspies who have the ability to use their NT façade for extended periods and, do so nearly flawlessly, like me. The might just be really smart, really talented Aspies for whom memorizing social rules and cues and, acting come easily - along with whatever else the excel at. Might be more of us in the forefront of more fields that you think.

I think that this is probably true for a lot of older Aspies. Time and experience teach you to fit in. Beverly, I am not calling you old, it is easy to see that your situation is very different than most of us. One of the things that I have learned over the years is to not question a lady's age. My wife has been 35 for many years.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

A gifted NT is a gifted NT, I don't like how every smart person is assumed to have Asperger's. Their social awkwardness is because they don't have the same interests and because they're more mature than their peers or because they've been isolated for being nerdy, Asperger's is an ASD which is a developmental disorder. Different things. Not the same at all.

 

[Ste11aeres]

You know, some of those gifted NTs that slide into Aspie mode so readily might not be NT at all, they might be Aspies who have the ability to use their NT façade for extended periods and, do so nearly flawlessly, like me. The might just be really smart, really talented Aspies for whom memorizing social rules and cues and, acting come easily - along with whatever else the excel at. Might be more of us in the forefront of more fields that you think.

I think, actually, that there could be both Aspies and NTs who are capable of slipping back and forth. There are gifted NTs who can slide into Aspie focus in regards to their chosen field, and Aspies who can mimic an NT social facade. However, I think that slipping into hyperfocus for one's field is a more natural thing, while for an Aspie to mimic a social facade takes conscious work and effort.