Why All The Love?

[Southern Discomfort]

So Why do people like me?

Possibly because they also share the same prejudices. I don't know. I don't know the people around you. It might be because they know you have a disability and therefore maybe somewhat assume it's part of the diagnosis. Or they know that you're family and therefore you're stuck with each other and therefore they feel like they have to make it as easy as possible.

But you know it is possible to change your behaviour. Regardless if you're on the autism spectrum or not. But it does take work, hard work. I'm not happy about certain aspects of myself. I get into arguments, sometimes of the childish nature, online. I don't play the morally wrong person, in fact I do actively look for the arseholes so I can bloody well give them a hard time for once. But that's still not a healthy attitude. So I need to change that. It's better to do these things sooner rather than later because it reinforces a habit and as you bet older it's harder to change your behaviour, that's just a fact.

If you're thinking about this question may it's a sign to really try and better yourself. You're asking yourself an important question and it's on the road to change how you behave. Continue to ask yourself 'Why?'. That's what people don't do enough of, they don't look at things from another person's perspective or think they purely in black and white. Granted that is typical behaviours of an autistic person but it shouldn't ever stop you from trying.

 

[xudo]

......fishing for opinions. I suspect your youth has something to do with it.

Is that a good or bad things?

I wouldn't say it's either good or bad. In this day and age it seems to be more and more socially acceptable to fish for opinions/attention. However, that doesn't mean people will appreciate other people for doing it. I find it incredibly annoying when I see posts on facebook that are quite obviously there for no other reason than to garner attention.

As others have said, you age may have something to do with it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do something about it if you really want to.

 

[OrangeGoldGreen]

I respect your behavior more than I respect my own at that age... I was a silent, shy, anxiety-ridden, doormat of a 15 year old. People "liked" me, but only because I would listen to them, molded my behaviors to look like what they wanted me to look like, and was easily manipulated.

My best guess is that both of our behavior stems from the same place - low self esteem. In my case, I was terrified of any kind of negative attention, so I did my best to avoid anything that might attract it. Perhaps for you, you're subconsciously using some of these behaviors as a way to seek attention (in a "bad attention is better than no attention" sort of way), or using victim-blaming/manipulation as a way to "one-up" yourself to feel superior to others, to counteract other areas where you feel lower/less than others? Sorry if I'm off track here. I'm more than a decade older than you, and I'm still struggling in this area.

 

[twilightzone76]

And even more so for NTs.....

I hate when people imply this. I never lacked empathy. I just had trouble conveying.

And you may be an exception, but it rings true with many Aspies. I'm not on here to pit one against the other or imply Aspies are "less than" because they struggle with empathy. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses but I think it's fair to say that Aspies typically struggle with putting themselves in anothers shoes and understanding what someone else is feeling.

One of the biggest issues with NT/Aspie relationships is that even though it's clear as day that the Aspie has limited ability to show empathy, the NT proceeds to think that they can just "learn" it.

I have read a plethora of medical literature (I'm also in the medical field) and research shows that while those with Aspergers have overall brain volume that tends to be larger than non-autistics (which explains how they can be very intelligent in certain areas), the hippocampus and amygdala (think memories and emotions) has less volume. Neuropathic studies of their limbic systems have found decreased neuronal size, increased neuronal packing density and decreased complexity of dendritic arbors.

Sounds like a bunch of gibberish but my point being, it is very hard to compete with nature. While you can learn appropriate ways to respond to someones feelings and emotions, the ability to feel what someone else is feeling is more of an innate ability.

If you have that capability, that's awesome but I know much frustration, heartache and feelings of failure have come from both NT's and Aspies not coming to terms with what degree empathy is realistically possible.

I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. Can Aspies feel and understand what others are feeling? Or is it more along the lines of not being able to respond to those feelings appropriately?

For example, your girlfriend is crying because her dog died. Do you feel the hurt she is feeling and/or does it make you feel sad to see her sad? Or do you just have difficulty comforting her with actions and words?

 

[Nitro]

And you may be an exception, but it rings true with many Aspies. I'm not on here to pit one against the other or imply Aspies are "less than" because they struggle with empathy. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses but I think it's fair to say that Aspies typically struggle with putting themselves in anothers shoes and understanding what someone else is feeling.

One of the biggest issues with NT/Aspie relationships is that even though it's clear as day that the Aspie has limited ability to show empathy, the NT proceeds to think that they can just "learn" it.

I have read a plethora of medical literature (I'm also in the medical field) and research shows that while those with Aspergers have overall brain volume that tends to be larger than non-autistics (which explains how they can be very intelligent in certain areas), the hippocampus and amygdala (think memories and emotions) has less volume. Neuropathic studies of their limbic systems have found decreased neuronal size, increased neuronal packing density and decreased complexity of dendritic arbors.

Sounds like a bunch of gibberish but my point being, it is very hard to compete with nature. While you can learn appropriate ways to respond to someones feelings and emotions, the ability to feel what someone else is feeling is more of an innate ability.

If you have that capability, that's awesome but I know much frustration, heartache and feelings of failure have come from both NT's and Aspies not coming to terms with what degree empathy is realistically possible.

I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. Can Aspies feel and understand what others are feeling? Or is it more along the lines of not being able to respond to those feelings appropriately?

For example, your girlfriend is crying because her dog died. Do you feel the hurt she is feeling and/or does it make you feel sad to see her sad? Or do you just have difficulty comforting her with actions and words?

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the memory part.My brain has the ability to drag memories from things I have seen that span my entire lifetime.
I'm not talking about a little bit of info from selected areas,I'm saying it is across a very broad area with many interests.

What part about conditioned learning do you not understand?
I have always mimicked what others do in order to function in this world on a level that they required of me in order to fit in. In small talk,I learned that a simple "how are you today" isn't an inquisition that requires a full dissertation,it is only a friendly formality that others expect with a very vague answer to back it up.
It's not a secret code that any neurology is born with,and I'm pretty sure that the NTs don't wake up in the morning all set to play a game of stump the autie. To me that thought process is just playing the victim role and will only serve to hold you back.

Now going back to learned responses,if I slap you in the face after you get hostile with me,in time,you will learn that saying things in that manner can be detrimental to your well being,so I would hope that in time,you would quit being so crusty when you speak to others.

 

[Darthsuhtek]

Empathy Story One:
Once in a class I saw this girl crying, so I asked what was wrong. She said she was sad because someone stole her phone. I didn't like seeing her cry, but I could not feel empathy for her upon hearing why she was crying.

Empathy Story Two:
When I was a child I went to the grocery store once. At the grocery store there was a guy dressed like Big Bird and a guy dressed like a giant bologna. Everyone was attracted to Big Bird and the bologna guy didn't get any attention. I felt very sad for the bologna guy because of this. Even though he probably didn't care or notice.

 

[Peatsmoke]

And you may be an exception, but it rings true with many Aspies. I'm not on here to pit one against the other or imply Aspies are "less than" because they struggle with empathy. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses but I think it's fair to say that Aspies typically struggle with putting themselves in anothers shoes and understanding what someone else is feeling.

One of the biggest issues with NT/Aspie relationships is that even though it's clear as day that the Aspie has limited ability to show empathy, the NT proceeds to think that they can just "learn" it.

I have read a plethora of medical literature (I'm also in the medical field) and research shows that while those with Aspergers have overall brain volume that tends to be larger than non-autistics (which explains how they can be very intelligent in certain areas), the hippocampus and amygdala (think memories and emotions) has less volume. Neuropathic studies of their limbic systems have found decreased neuronal size, increased neuronal packing density and decreased complexity of dendritic arbors.

Sounds like a bunch of gibberish but my point being, it is very hard to compete with nature. While you can learn appropriate ways to respond to someones feelings and emotions, the ability to feel what someone else is feeling is more of an innate ability.

If you have that capability, that's awesome but I know much frustration, heartache and feelings of failure have come from both NT's and Aspies not coming to terms with what degree empathy is realistically possible.

I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. Can Aspies feel and understand what others are feeling? Or is it more along the lines of not being able to respond to those feelings appropriately?

For example, your girlfriend is crying because her dog died. Do you feel the hurt she is feeling and/or does it make you feel sad to see her sad? Or do you just have difficulty comforting her with actions and words?

Well, for me, I know that at those times when my girlfriend has cried, I've felt the hurt on steroids. The empathy (I suppose this is "affective empathy" or maybe "compassionate empathy") is absolutely overwhelming - enough to make me cry, too. I really, really want to comfort her, to make her feel better - which is the hard part. Hugging comes naturally to me, but knowing what to say is... tricky. But I definitely feel almost uncontrollable empathetic emotions.

Interestingly, I would have exactly the same reactions as Darthsuhtek in those two situations...

 

[xudo]

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses but I think it's fair to say that Aspies typically struggle with putting themselves in anothers shoes and understanding what someone else is feeling.

One of my main weaknesses is empathy. I cannot put myself in someone elses shoes, and am frequently told that I "should think about it from so and so's perspective." I've been told I'm being heartless.

 

[twilightzone76]

Empathy Story One:
Once in a class I saw this girl crying, so I asked what was wrong. She said she was sad because someone stole her phone. I didn't like seeing her cry, but I could not feel empathy for her upon hearing why she was crying.

Empathy Story Two:
When I was a child I went to the grocery store once. At the grocery store there was a guy dressed like Big Bird and a guy dressed like a giant bologna. Everyone was attracted to Big Bird and the bologna guy didn't get any attention. I felt very sad for the bologna guy because of this. Even though he probably didn't care or notice.

This is where it gets tricky. Sympathy and empathy are different. You felt sympathy for the bologna guy in that you had your own feelings about the situation. Empathy is feeling or understanding the feelings of others.

 

[twilightzone76]

One of my main weaknesses is empathy. I cannot put myself in someone elses shoes, and am frequently told that I "should think about it from so and so's perspective." I've been told I'm being heartless.

And it's not that you don't try or you haven't tried to "learn", it's just not where your brain wiring takes you.

To an NT, this does come across as heartless, but we have to understand the physiology that's involved.

Understanding doesn't mean being in a relationship with someone who cannot empathize should be any easier, it just helps to accept what is.

 

[Darthsuhtek]

This is where it gets tricky. Sympathy and empathy are different. You felt sympathy for the bologna guy in that you had your own feelings about the situation. Empathy is feeling or understanding the feelings of others.

In that case I'm not sure I can feel true empathy. Or at least feel it immediately. In the past I've had difficulty apologizing on the spot, because I found no problem with my action at the time.

 

[xudo]

And it's not that you don't try or you haven't tried to "learn", it's just not where your brain wiring takes you.

To an NT, this does come across as heartless, but we have to understand the physiology that's involved.

Understanding doesn't mean being in a relationship with someone who cannot empathize should be any easier, it just helps to accept what is.

I completely agree. It doesn't bother me when people say things like that, because I myself know that I was not being heartless. Luckily for me, my husband is also on the spectrum, and although he has a better time with empathy, he knows that I'm not being horrible, it's just how I am.

 

[Nitro]

Wow. Y'all getting a little too deep on this psychology thing. The OP said she sends out the signals that she is hostile towards others and brings up subjects that turn stomachs. That is something that can be corrected with some work. Getting how others feel about something really doesn't have anything to do with it. I think she fully understands others aren't happy with her. Does it really need to be complicated with theories about empathy?

 

[twilightzone76]

Wow. Y'all getting a little too deep on this psychology thing. The OP said she sends out the signals that she is hostile towards others and brings up subjects that turn stomachs. That is something that can be corrected with some work. Getting how others feel about something really doesn't have anything to do with it. I think she fully understands others aren't happy with her. Does it really need to be complicated with theories about empathy?

Definitely, she can and should correct that behavior however the empathy discussion got started because you asked her to imagine herself in their shoes which is the epitome of empathy - something she may not have/understand.

 

[xDominiel]

I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. Can Aspies feel and understand what others are feeling? Or is it more along the lines of not being able to respond to those feelings appropriately?

For example, your girlfriend is crying because her dog died. Do you feel the hurt she is feeling and/or does it make you feel sad to see her sad? Or do you just have difficulty comforting her with actions and words?

I can feel and understand what others feel. I feel the hurt she is feeling, I understand how it would feel if I was in that situation, my problem has always been that I have been lacking and awkward in social skills. So I would, and did, have trouble comforting her.

But even that might be different today, as I have learnt a few things over the years. I'd likely be a better boyfriend today. I'm not a stagnant, unchanging stereotype as some in the past have assumed.

Have you seen the website "heartless Asperger's" that warns against dating aspies? There is a lot of prejudice out there based on these stereotypes.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I'm skeptical that it can be either learned or taught. If it was that easy, many relationships would have been saved.

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it always is. Doesn't even mean it normally is. Some relationships are saved.

 

[xudo]

Have you seen the website "heartless Asperger's" that warns against dating aspies? There is a lot of prejudice out there based on these stereotypes.

Oh my god, I had never heard of this site. Hilarious reading, as the whole thing comes across as set up by someone who was burned in a past relationship. When trying to find out more about the totally legitimate sounding disorder that NT partners of people with ASD can suffer from (due entirely it seems to our lack of empathy) I was sadly only able to find one independent source. This was Wikipedia, and the page is listed for deletion because:

"The topic seems to be the recent invention of a non-notable person Maxine Aston and has never been peer reviewed. There are only 7 entries in Google, two resolve to Maxine Aston's personal webpage, two resolve to postings promoting Maxine Aston's website on a non-notable MSN group, one refers to a link to a blog, as yet unindexed, promoting Maxine Aston's website, one refers to an index of recent updates for the same, unindexed, blog, and one refers to a blog that has recently been deleted."

Who would have guessed?

 

[twilightzone76]

Definitely, she can and should correct that behavior however the empathy discussion got started because you asked her to imagine herself in their shoes which is the epitome of empathy - something she may not have/understand.

I can feel and understand what others feel. I feel the hurt she is feeling, I understand how it would feel if I was in that situation, my problem has always been that I have been lacking and awkward in social skills. So I would, and did, have trouble comforting her.

But even that might be different today, as I have learnt a few things over the years. I'd likely be a better boyfriend today. I'm not a stagnant, unchanging stereotype as some in the past have assumed.

Have you seen the website "heartless Asperger's" that warns against dating aspies? There is a lot of prejudice out there based on these stereotypes.

Well, for me, I know that at those times when my girlfriend has cried, I've felt the hurt on steroids. The empathy (I suppose this is "affective empathy" or maybe "compassionate empathy") is absolutely overwhelming - enough to make me cry, too. I really, really want to comfort her, to make her feel better - which is the hard part. Hugging comes naturally to me, but knowing what to say is... tricky. But I definitely feel almost uncontrollable empathetic emotions.

Interestingly, I would have exactly the same reactions as Darthsuhtek in those two situations...

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it always is. Doesn't even mean it normally is. Some relationships are saved.

And that's exactly why I am here - I have been in a LTR with an Aspie and have done my fair share of research but who better to get insight from than the horses mouth.

You will hear some that flat out say they cannot empathize despite giving it full effort and others that find empathy as being one of their strong suits. Just like NT's, no two Aspies are the same.

It's not right to say all or none, however, I have yet to come across a story of an NT/Aspie relationship where empathy was NOT an issue. That right there leads me to believe it's next to impossible to make much improvement upon unless you're one of the rarer Aspies that have a higher degree of empathy to start with.

 

[xDominiel]

Hilarious reading, as the whole thing comes across as set up by someone who was burned in a past relationship.

No wonder, as that's literally what it is.

 

[twilightzone76]

I can feel and understand what others feel. I feel the hurt she is feeling, I understand how it would feel if I was in that situation, my problem has always been that I have been lacking and awkward in social skills. So I would, and did, have trouble comforting her.

But even that might be different today, as I have learnt a few things over the years. I'd likely be a better boyfriend today. I'm not a stagnant, unchanging stereotype as some in the past have assumed.

Have you seen the website "heartless Asperger's" that warns against dating aspies? There is a lot of prejudice out there based on these stereotypes.

"But even that might be different today, as I have learnt a few things over the years. I'd likely be a better boyfriend today. I'm not a stagnant, unchanging stereotype as some in the past have assumed."

This is wonderful! Many (both NT's and Aspies) are not driven to evolve as humans. To be better version of themselves and better partners. You will always have an advantage with this progressive thinking.