When they don’t understand

[Sarah S]

="Judge, post: 665840, member: 2593"]In a perfect world, I might agree. But we don't exist in one. Instead we exist within a species that tends to be hostile to anyone who appears to be significantly "different" in any number of ways. If I lived in a more socially progressive environment, I too might be more inclined to test the waters socially as you are. But I don't.

" im well aware of the fact that this is a hostile and im perfect world Judge and belive me have known it since i was born "

According to the CDC, the Neurodiverse account for approximately 1.8% of society. Leaving the vast majority Neurotypicals, who in most cases haven't a clue of what Neurodiversity is, let alone having any incentive to understand or tolerate a tiny percentage of the population. In most cases they don't, and for the most simplest of reasons. -Because they don't have to.

" Still those that are is worth the risk in my book , If we look at how people with this and other diagnosis /handicaps lived in the previos decades thats NOT the life anyone should be forced to live. And neither one of us today would be able to live as we do today with all its flaws and so on if it wasent for those prior to us who dared to step up. "

Leaving us to decide whether or not we want to endure potentially endless social persecution and ostracization just for being ourselves. For some of us this may not be considered a high price to pay. For others, it may simply be too much a price to pay.

" I agree with you BUT as i also said that if youre alredy being treated and regarded this way what price is there to pay for taking the chance of geting it better? "

Another consideration is the nation you live in. Which in many instances may determine how much social strife exists in everyday society that compounds any consideration of the gap between the Neurodiverse and the Neurotypical.

" Again i compleatly agree and dont for one second think everything is so great for us over here as its most defenetly NOT we have to fight for just about everything we are entitled to by law so staying silent under the radar & ostracization DONT work here either. i had to fight for just about everything i ever goten in my life Judge. "

One not ever feel ashamed of their neurological profile. However depending on their immediate environment, they damn well better understand the ramifications of being transparent about being on the spectrum of autism. Which might be really positive, or really negative depending upon the social and cultural environment, apart from the company you choose to keep. Where for so many of us, even those we thought who were closest to us can be the same ones so likely to betray us over our neurological differences.

" If you think i havent been burnt youre wrong MANY times so many times i also had all my spikes ready to go up in a moments notice 24 / 7 so belive me i understand and agree that we also need to inform about said risks as well as the possible gainings. So far i have only seen the negatives being displayed in here thats why i fealt i had to come out and give the possible + as well .

" I have been ostracised, being regarded as an idiot felt like i came from another world never been able to fit in anywhere (incl by school my so called school mates ,My so called friends , my own bilogical father, just about every department of society etc... ) even up to adult age the few reel friends i had was given XXXXX just for being my friend from birth to late adult around were i am now (and pretty musch from when they saw i stood up for my mom when she got her Alzimers "

 

[Judge]

i can relate to that,because when i try to explain something i try to tell my mother,she gets upset about it real fast & real quick.she's so hard on me because she knows i can do better,and she thinks being like that is going to get me to whatever i can do ? Yeah,right

Tragically all too often people assume that autism is a matter of attitude more than neurology. As if hard-wired traits and behaviors can be effectively controlled and overcome through positive thinking alone.

It just ain't so.

 

[Sarah S]

i can relate to that,because when i try to explain something i try to tell my mother,she gets upset about it real fast & real quick.she's so hard on me because she knows i can do better,and she thinks being like that is going to get me to whatever i can do ? Yeah,right

THIS is the reason we need to try to teach and educate what this and other diagnosis are about and how they work

 

[Judge]

" I agree with you BUT as I also said that if you're already being treated and regarded this way what price is there to pay for taking the chance of getting it better?"

I'm not a masochist. I can take social strife and ostracization only so long, then I simply withdraw from people altogether. If you can be a perpetual punching bag socially and emotionally, "knock yourself out".

But then in most cases that's exactly what will happen.

Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[Sarah S]

I'm not a masochist. I can take social strife and ostracization only so long, then I simply withdraw from people altogether. If you can be a perpetual "punching bag" socially and emotionally, "knock yourself out".

But then in most cases that's exactly what will happen.

Never said you were and neither am i. All i said is i refuse to having to as you say having to withdraw from people all together, constantly having to fear everything i say /how i act dont dare to be me. I have accepted who i am with all my diagnosis and flaws

And in other cases things have improved thats all im saying i can say that since i came out and started to openly inform those around me of all my diagnosis they have ALL understood and accepted me better then before.

Neither one of us in here have chosen to have our diagnosis we are born with them and we have just as much right as everyone else on this earth to be treated with the same amount of respect as everyone else.

And lastly i do hope i havent hurt youre felings Judge as that was never my meaning i highly respect youre views and Knowledge

 

[Judge]

Neither one of us in here have chosen to have our diagnosis we are born with them and we have just as much right as everyone else on this earth to be treated with the same amount of respect as everyone else.

No argument there. But you're "preaching to the choir". You need to tell them- not me.

And to be aware that most of them are either not listening or just don't care. -Because in their minds, they don't have to.

In my country we have a saying. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."

 

[Sarah S]

No argument there. But you're "preaching to the choir". You need to tell them- not me.

And to be aware that most of them are either not listening or just don't care. -Because they don't have to.

In my country we have a saying. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."

Oh belive me my posts in this thread are just as much meant to them as you

" Thats youre belives not mien and i can assure you those that are around me this days DO care the ones that dont i havent any contact with them any more "

" I give you that one BUT if someone dident even lead the horse to said water in the first place the horse wouldent be able to make his /her own choice whether to drink or not "

Judge said Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

" I never said anything of doing things the same way over and over again if something dont work then try again in some other way but DONT give up if its something important "

 

[LucyPurrs]

It's a difference of values.

You place what you perceive to be the truth as more important than any other value.

Those you're interacting with may be placing the value of kindness as more important than truth.

And so when the option comes to be either kind or honest, they would choose kind and you would choose honest.

Part of the problem with valuing your own honesty above all else is that it often involves a type of arrogance. It's to say that what you perceive to be true is true and others should know that. But a great majority of the time, ambiguity is involved and a person's blank delivery of the "truth" is not entirely accurate and it's simply a choice to be rude under the guise of honesty.

Of course, I don't know all of your specific instances, but generally this is what I've found.

And it's not a black or white choice between the truth and something else. To deliver the truth with tact and care is a sign of love for the person you're interacting with. When you love someone, you desire to spare them pain. The aim of your dialogue then becomes to spare pain, which certainly does not entirely eliminate truth. A fine balance is an important part of relationships.

That's just brilliant Fino. Simple yet crystal clear explanation. Bravo.

 

[Judge]

" I give you that one BUT if someone didn't even lead the horse to said water in the first place the horse wouldn't be able to make his /her own choice whether to drink or not "

It's not a saying meant to be taken so literally. Horses don't rationalize or socialize based on a perception of being part of a a social majority. Humans on the other hand, are another matter entirely.

A social dynamic sometimes compounded in political democracies. Where society often takes for granted that the consensus of any majority is always a good thing. Even when it may not be the case.

 

[Sarah S]

It's not a saying meant to be taken so literally. Horses don't rationalize or socialize based on a perception of being part of a a social majority. Humans on the other hand, are another matter entirely.

A social dynamic sometimes compounded in political democracies. Where society often takes for granted that the consensus of any majority is always a good thing. Even when it may not be the case.

I give you that one WELL spoken Judge

Still thats not a reason for those that dont manage to fit the mold to go and live in the sewers or hide in attics or basements or out in the woods far far away from any society like it was prior decades ago

 

[Judge]

I give you that one WELL spoken Judge

Still thats not a reason for those that dont manage to fit the mold to go and live in the sewers or hide in attics or basements or out in the woods far far away from any society like it was prior decades ago

True, but then consider how many of us just might enjoy living a life so separated from society.

Autism involves some pretty conflicting dynamics at times. Particularly that "love/hate" relationship so many of us have with our fellow human beings. One that I suspect few outside our own neurology will ever be able to really understand.

But then at times I have to chuckle and lament that I don't understand it either.

Where all I can say is that it's indicative of who- and what we are. For better or worse.

 

[Sarah S]

True, but then consider how many of us just might enjoy living a life so separated from society.

Autism involves some pretty conflicting dynamics at times. Particularly that "love/hate" relationship so many of us have with our fellow human beings. One that I suspect few outside our own neurology will ever be able to really understand.

True that But for me it was more of necessity to have to to become this lone woolf rather then my own choice

On that one i can only agree

 

[Pats]

I have a problem with being too honest. No - other people have a problem with me being too honest. I am very empathetic, and sometimes the two things together is what loses me a relationship. Ok - I don't know how to physically express, but I can verbalize that it makes me sad or angry or whatever. But where the problem comes in is this:
Example - my sister was hating her son in law and was calling me daily with complaints about him. She hated it because I was empathizing more with him and would explain to my sister that I might would be reacting the same way in his shoes. One of her complaints is that he hardly acknowledged her existence when he'd pick the kids up from her house. She was furious when I told her it might be because she told him it was his fault that her daughter left him for a woman. She literally blamed him to his face - I can not pretend or even come close to pretending what she did was okay and that he was the one being rude. So, yes, I empathized with him - seemed to be he was the victim. I had a hard time understanding why she was so upset with me and how she could not see it herself.
So I guess if they don't really want honesty, avoid asking me about it. If it's sympathy they're looking for, maybe they need to go elsewhere.

And another way it makes me seem uncaring. We had a secretary who called out of work more than she actually worked (don't know how she kept her job). But me and a friend working together always knew a head of time when she'd be planning to go home early. Like one night she came in with crutches. We both just laughed and said, "Yep, she'll be going home soon" and we were right. Another night she came in saying she was having a hard time breathing. Again, my friend and I agreed she'd be going home soon. It wasn't long before she was being carried out on a stretcher and we were laughing in the background. It was totally fake. Everyone else was pretending to be sympathetic, or maybe they were fooled. But nothing was wrong with her and I couldn't pretend to believe her. So I may have appeared uncaring, but there was nothing wrong with her and I can't pretend to care about something I know is not real.

 

[hatfullofrain]

And it's not a black or white choice between the truth and something else. To deliver the truth with tact and care is a sign of love for the person you're interacting with. When you love someone, you desire to spare them pain. The aim of your dialogue then becomes to spare pain, which certainly does not entirely eliminate truth. A fine balance is an important part of relationships.

Perfect. It's true. People think that we don't care when we are too blunt. I've had to think about how I phrase things so that I don't hurt people and I've definitely managed to change over the years and I get along with people a lot better than I used to.

 

[Alexej]

Today my best friend was mad at me for not being empathetic and saying things that were cold but honestly they were the truth and I didn’t understand why she was so mad. My husband also this week accused me of being cold and unempathetic.

This all sounds familiar to me.
Not being empathetic - sounds like you were not giving the customary "polite" response, but you may have just been yourself - telling it as it is, honestly and unfiltered.

 

[Fino]

For the classic question, "Does this dress make me look fat?" one can say something like, "Yes, for a moment I thought you were a whale," or something like, "I thought you looked better in the other one," and both are true.

But either way, I got the impression from the OP that this wasn't exactly about a person asking a question, seemingly asking for the truth. It sounded more organic than that, more conversational and less solicited, but I could be wrong.

 

[UberScout]

Yeah, this "misunderstood" crap used to happen to me IN SPADES. In high school, I was always being accused of stuff I never had anything to do with, and when I tried to explain, speaking FLAWLESS ENGLISH, USING WORDS STRAIGHT OUT OF THE MIRRIAM WEBSTER DICTIONARY, THAT THESE @HOLE TEACHERS ARE REQUIRED TO STUDY. I say something that ANYONE ELSE would say, and they look at me like I just freight slammed their infant child.

"He stole my drink at the drink machine! He freaking waited until I went to grab another one of my quarters that fell out my pocket and did a freaking Bait and Switch on me!"

"...the hell is a 'Bait and Switch'?"

"...You have to be kidding me."

And to this day, it continues to happen.

 

[SusanLR]

Maybe a lot of it depends on how much it matters to you if you want their friendship or not.
If it is something you really want, then maybe you stop and think before you speak.

Sometimes it is just something that is said without thought, innocently, too.
Today I had one of those moments and it was just plain funny really.
I was putting away Christmas decorations in the garage and the guy I live with came out to see
what I was doing.
He saw something on the floor and picked it up then dropped it like it had bitten him.
I saw what it was. A large sea urchin spine. Looked like a stick about the size of my little finger.
I had used it to wedge the light on top of a lawn decoration.

He said: "Isn't that a thing?"
(Now really this is lack of communication on his behalf also, but, I thought nothing of it.)
I answered: " What thing? Everything is a thing."
( I thought it a logical answer since the word 'thing' could be applied to anything.)
"You know... one of those things! Oh, never mind, you don't know." he said. And the conversation was dropped.
Well, it made me feel he thought I should have known what he meant by saying isn't that a thing?
Then it finally struck me.
It frieghtened him to think he'd picked up something he felt afraid of but didn't know what it was.
And secondly when he said Oh, never mind, you don't know. I realized he wasn't thinking I had
just given him one of those what seems to me the logical answer, but, it seems I should have known
what he meant.

It's just going to happen sometimes.
He knows I'm on the spectrum and accepted my answer.
If he hadn't known he would have probably gotten into an argument.

 

[Autistamatic]

According to the CDC, the Neurodiverse account for approximately 1.8% of society.

I hate to have to be pedantic here, but that's a misleading statement. 100% of the population are neurodiverse. If you mean neurodivergent then it's also off the mark. Some 17% of the world's population is neurodivergent. The figure quoted is specifically related to autism alone.
The whole human population is neurodiverse just as we are all racially diverse, religiously diverse etc. Those of us who are neurodivergent (i.e. different to the accepted baseline) includes those with ADHD, dyslexia, discalculia, dyspraxia, tourettes and many more.

As to the OP it's worth looking into both alexithymia (delayed emotional response) and flat affect (facial expressions which are not as overt or as extreme as expected), both of which are extremely common in autistic people and often combined.
Flat affect alone is responsible for many of the accusations of our being cold or unemotional, yet it's not exclusive to autists. If you find yourself deliberately exaggerating your facial expressions to be understood, then flat affect is probably in play. The popular colloquial term "RBF" is an aspect of flat affect wherein our neutral expression looks to others like an expression of sadness, irritation or anger, when in fact we're perfectly OK. If people just assume that we're in a bad mood instead of asking or understanding us (as is too often the case) they will likely assume that we are a curmudgeon or a misanthrope, leading to extra communication difficulties for us.

 

[Progster]

He said: "Isn't that a thing?"
(Now really this is lack of communication on his behalf also, but, I thought nothing of it.)
I answered: " What thing? Everything is a thing."
( I thought it a logical answer since the word 'thing' could be applied to anything.)
"You know... one of those things! Oh, never mind, you don't know." he said. And the conversation was dropped.
Well, it made me feel he thought I should have known what he meant by saying isn't that a thing?
Then it finally struck me.
It frieghtened him to think he'd picked up something he felt afraid of but didn't know what it was.
And secondly when he said Oh, never mind, you don't know. I realized he wasn't thinking I had
just given him one of those what seems to me the logical answer, but, it seems I should have known
what he meant.

I would have answered in the same way and I still don't get this. It seems like 'thing' needed an adjective to qualify it, like a 'horrible thing." Then his reaction would have made sense, given that he wanted to express that he was afraid of it.