When are empathy and social sensitivities taken too far?

[Neonatal RRT]

I wish to discuss the pros, cons, and nuances of empathy and social sensitivities. The autism community, in particular, appear to feel things deeply, and as such, tend to have a relatively high sensitivity to the many social injustices and inequalities in our world...not only personally, but also for others. In some cases, we may find ourselves filtering our experiences and world views through this lens. Emotional and social empathy is commonly considered a virtue. People are often judged by their capacity and expression of it. However, when emotional and social empathy is in its amplified form, can it be weaponized to cause harm...and in the words of some...become a sin?

Examples:
1. "Cancel culture"
2. If combined with the personal perspective of "I am morally virtuous and I am going to point out that you are not."
3. If combined with emotional dysregulation, property destruction, verbal and physical violence.
4. If combined with a sense of entitlement and narcissism.
5. If combined with a narrow world view.
6. If combined with high confidence and little knowledge.

Personally, I am a healthcare worker with some 40 years of experience. I have seen all manner of horrible and tragic human experiences and death. That said, that experience also comes with the understanding of the concepts of nuance and moderation, as well as too little and too much of anything.

Thoughts?

 

[Vesta]

Having heightened empathy and sensitivity, I don’t see these qualities as an advantage and would like to get rid of them on a genetic level. I notice that people with minimal empathy and emotional responsiveness are often more successful, sociable, and have a wide circle of contacts.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Having heightened empathy and sensitivity, I don’t see these qualities as an advantage and would like to get rid of them on a genetic level. I notice that people with minimal empathy and emotional responsiveness are often more successful, sociable, and have a wide circle of contacts.

Perhaps some truth to that, but also consider that a high degree of self-discipline and emotional control may be at play. There is a difference between feeling and expression of those feelings. I know that in healthcare, the persona we project and what we really feel and think may be quite different.

 

[TBRS1]

There is a very fine line, which is ENTIRELY subjectively determined, where one's desire to do good becomes a weapon used against them.

Example: Teaching is a low paid profession (in relation to the education and ongoing education required, and the professional duties/responsibilities).

When my employer broke contract and substantially cut pay, advancement opportunities, health and retirement benefits, we were told, over and over again to remember that "We were there for the children."

While that is true - nobody does that job unless they care about the children - making a wage benefit package above that offered by *Bigstore* would have been nice.

Our (the teachers) desire to do good was horribly abused.

 

[Caiman]

Some may call it naïve, but I’d rather be the one who cares too deeply than the one who doesn’t care at all. Even if kindness leaves me open to being taken advantage of, I’d rather carry a soft heart than a hardened one.

My biggest motivation in life has always been integrity and compassion. In a world where greed, selfishness, and cruelty are far too common, meeting those who still live with kindness feels like finding light in the dark. It reminds me there is still hope. That’s why even the smallest acts like a thank you for a held door, looking after the animals and environment and respect for the space we share matter so much to me. They’re signs that goodness hasn’t vanished.

When my life reaches its end, I’d rather be remembered as someone who gave too much, who risked being hurt, than as someone who surrendered to bitterness. Better to leave this world as a good soul who stayed true than to let cruelty reshape me into something I never wanted to be.

 

[RemyZee]

I'd mention that what you are describing in the examples you gave might not actually be examples of empathy. I don't think you can be genuinely cruel toward someone and empathize with them at the same time. I don't know if those two things can go together--unless, I guess people use empathy to justify their violence or self understood moral superiority, saying that it's necessary to be unethical for some reason to help the larger society, so it is the way a person cares for society. Now I seem to be saying the opposite thing. I believe what I am trying to say is that if a person is truly empathetic, they won't often do asshole things, and instead will do good things--but like anything people can use empathy as an excuse and justification for doing things that are wrong. But can real empathy be actually narcissistic?

 

[Outdated]

I have lived a pretty wild life and associated with people from all walks of life. My empathy is one of the reasons I am able to get along so well with so many different types of people. But:

Empathy does not equal sympathy.

Quite often exactly the opposite. Because I can read and understand people quite well I can also see their motivations and there's a lot of truly horrible people out in the world. Quite often empathy excludes sympathy, and I'm not going to waste energy or effort on people who genuinely don't deserve it.

I've seen a lot in life, from being a highly successful business manager to being homeless for 12 years and everything in between. Some people see me as being very hard hearted and cold but that's the people that I don't believe deserve to be given a fair go. Others are amazed at my level of compassion and understanding.

 

[Caiman]

I'd mention that what you are describing in the examples you gave might not actually be examples of empathy. I don't think you can be genuinely cruel toward someone and empathize with them at the same time. I don't know if those two things can go together--unless, I guess people use empathy to justify their violence or self understood moral superiority, saying that it's necessary to be unethical for some reason to help the larger society, so it is the way a person cares for society. Now I seem to be saying the opposite thing. I believe what I am trying to say is that if a person is truly empathetic, they won't often do asshole things, and instead will do good things--but like anything people can use empathy as an excuse and justification for doing things that are wrong. But can real empathy be actually narcissistic?

I see what you mean. I guess for me, I wasn’t really trying to separate out empathy from kindness or integrity in a technical way if that makes any sense. What I meant is that even the little things such as a thank you, showing respect for shared spaces, or caring for animals feel important because they’re signs that people still recognise each other’s humanity.

I agree with you that real empathy and cruelty don’t go together. If you truly feel what someone else feels, you’re less likely to deliberately cause harm. And I think you’re right that empathy can sometimes get twisted or used as a justification for something selfish but to me, that’s more like manipulation using the word empathy rather than empathy itself.

For me, it’s simple: I’d rather keep caring too much, even if it makes me vulnerable, than stop caring and risk becoming bitter.

 

[RemyZee]

The small kindnesses are so important--even though people dismiss them. I live in the American deep south, and, one of the things I do believe in about it is the whole thing of kindness--maybe it is superficial, but there is a real emphasis on the kindness of strangers here that goes back to empathy--people who just go through life performing small but significant acts of kindness without expecting anything in return. I do agree with RRT that empathy when combined with some narcissistic view of the self as a hero or when it is combined with other things, it's just pretend empathy.

 

[Aspychata]

I help others because those who wouldn't give me a second thought have helped me thru horrible situations. So l play it forward. But l really don't think about morals, because l love to assume that everyone wants the best for mankind or women kind. But l also realize that's faulty thinking so let me just ride into the sunset on my unicorn.

 

[Judge]

Regardless of what autistic persons may think either way, we aren't particularly great communicators sufficient to have any real ability to "weaponize" whatever values we may have.

We can't all be Temple Grandin or Greta Thunberg.

If one fears an over abundance of empathy, social justice or Social Darwinism and misanthropy or whatever, they really should direct their concern towards the neurotypical community. Where such things can truly be "amplified" exponentionally through social organization and mobilization in astronomically higher numbers.

Worrying about autistic people with such values? Consider the CDC's recent numbers which still reflect disparity of neurotypicals to the neurodiverse on a 31 to 1 basis.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Good discussion so far.

A reminder and emphasis that is about situations where empathy, sensitivities, even sympathy are amplified...especially when it transitions into verbal and physical action, as well as what Judge had mentioned...social organization and mobilization in high numbers...situations where it can be harmful. Whether it be people out in the streets protesting and it gets out of hand with mob mentality, online with social media discussions that go "viral" with a toxic, moral high ground perspective, or more personal when it comes to shaming, verbal abuse, and physical violence.

Worrying about autistic people with such values? Consider the CDC's recent numbers which still reflect disparity of neurotypicals to the neurodiverse on a 31 to 1 basis.

Yes and no. It can be said that autistic folks are neurodivergent, but not all neurodivergent are autistic. Politically, there tends to be a bias for neurodivergent folks to be on the left and neurotypical folks to be on the right. Both sides socially organize and mobilize in large numbers, but it has been noted by many that the neurodivergent community will be triggered into action more often by social justice issues. The political right tending to be triggered into action by conservative, religious morality, and nationalistic issues.

Since the majority of us are neurodivergent in our own way here on this forum, and I agree that most of us are not out in the streets protesting and causing trouble. I don't think anyone here is a fan of immersing ourselves within large groups of people, but I suspect, behind a computer screen and social media there might be the potential for social organization and mobilization, moral high ground perspectives, and shaming. This forum, for the most part, is pretty good at controlling these behaviors, but I know that on other platforms that might not be the case.

Food for thought.

 

[AspieChris]

Having heightened empathy and sensitivity, I don’t see these qualities as an advantage and would like to get rid of them on a genetic level. I notice that people with minimal empathy and emotional responsiveness are often more successful, sociable, and have a wide circle of contacts.

I’ve often wished that I were able to be like those people, and thus be more ‘successful’ in life. But as I’m getting older I see the long term effects of not caring about other people enough. Those people rarely go jail or engage in fist-fighting but most eventually get divorced or have a really bad relationship with one of their children, or something equally as negative.

My marriage has had it’s challenges, and I have done plenty of ‘stupid’ in raising our son. BUT I’m always trying (too hard usually) to be a better spouse and father. Women don’t divorce a guy who genuinely tries to understand her needs, and children don’t disown a parent who shows up to every school play.

I’ll take my overly empathetic and sensitive craziness over splitting my pension with my ex-wife or not seeing my grandkids at Christmas. The people you describe succeed in their careers but I would argue that the life they have is not a better one.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I’ve often wished that I were able to be like those people, and thus be more ‘successful’ in life. But as I’m getting older I see the long term effects of not caring about other people enough. Those people rarely go jail or engage in fist-fighting but most eventually get divorced or have a really bad relationship with one of their children, or something equally as negative.

My marriage has had it’s challenges, and I have done plenty of ‘stupid’ in raising our son. BUT I’m always trying (too hard usually) to be a better spouse and father. Women don’t divorce a guy who genuinely tries to understand her needs, and children don’t disown a parent who shows up to every school play.

I’ll take my overly empathetic and sensitive craziness over splitting my pension with my ex-wife or not seeing my grandkids at Christmas. The people you describe succeed in their careers but I would argue that the life they have is not a better one.

...and I might repeat what I suggested above...Perhaps some truth to that, but also consider that a high degree of self-discipline and emotional control may be at play. There is a difference between feeling...and the expression of those feelings. I know that in healthcare, the persona we project and what we really feel and think may be quite different.

There are times where I have to consciously "reset" and NOT react with any outward sign of emotion in the worst of situations. It's only way I can function logically so that I can work efficiently. I see this with our doctors and team leaders...you're trying to erase the emotional component so that there can be focus and clear thinking...absolutely critical when a life is on the line.

Believe me, there are times when you want to cry out of grief and tragedy, get frustrated and angry with someone or the situation...but anytime...anytime you "loose it" in front of others it is immediately interpreted as weakness and an inability to lead effectively. It is considered a serious character flaw, quite literally...your credibility as a competent person is immediately compromised. Self-discipline and emotional control are one of a few personality traits that allow individuals to move ahead in their careers and be "successful".