what is genius, how do we measure it?

[Ronald Zeeman]

I have some ideas using statistics, interested in other definitions. Please comment, I will elaborate on my ideas later. One thing I know it is not is raw intelligence.as measured by IQ, covers many fields.

 

[PastelPetals]

I broke the IQ system my scores are too far apart so yes I agree it's not IQ. There are things I am considered gifted at in fact i score in the top 2 percent but other things I score in the bottom 11 percent. I have come to think that there is not genius is an overarching sense. I can memorize all sorts of things and I can speak with a fluency few possess when explaining big ideas but I can't order food at a restaurant by myself. Am I a genius?? I guess I believe it's more of a topic based thing not so much a word you can use in a generalized sense

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I broke the IQ system my scores are too far apart so yes I agree it's not IQ. There are things I am considered gifted at in fact i score in the top 2 percent but other things I score in the bottom 11 percent. I have come to think that there is not genius is an overarching sense. I can memorize all sorts of things and I can speak with a fluency few possess when explaining big ideas but I can't order food at a restaurant by myself. Am I a genius?? I guess I believe it's more of a topic based thing not so much a word you can use in a generalized sense

I agree with you that's why I am trying to define it statistically Even IQ in the way it is defined is sort of arbitrary. I can visualize how to define both in my head but putting it down in words is difficult. I have a great deal of experience working with colour and putting together a analogy is quite easy, unfortunately, no one else here is familiar with industrial colour control. I know a bit about how artists control colour.

 

[rach3rd]

I come from a music background where the term prodigy is often used instead of genius. A prodigy in the arts often means an adult mastery level of technical proficiency. So for the piano for instance, that would mean the ability to play technically difficult repertoire that demonstrates fast scales, arpeggios and octaves. Often young prodigies display such “technical” genius, but their interpretation of the music can be quite dull…like someone typing on a typewriter. For adult artists genius is still used, most often in the artistic interpretation of music. Though technical mastery is still a part of it, for example Horowitz is still thought of in regards to his technical wizardry/genius.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I had dinner last night with another couple, One of the topics was music, he liked Beethoven, I considered Mozart the true musical genius. My idea would involve a ranking system of some sort. the larger the sample size the more accurate. I Have a couple of examples currently that I could use. would love to here some other ideas.

 

[Shamar]

I have some ideas using statistics, interested in other definitions. Please comment, I will elaborate on my ideas later. One thing I know it is not is raw intelligence.as measured by IQ, covers many fields.

Read "The Mismeasure on Man" by Stephen Gould. Then think about what you just said.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Intelligence does not define genius, otherwise athletic genius would have to some how fall within the definition. My dinner partner a chemistry professor stated to me over his 40 plus year career he has only meet 2 individuals whom he would consider geniuses. his definition was a little too pedestrian for me. sort of quoting something he heard elsewhere. to me Einstein, Darwin, were geniuses lots of bright physicists and naturalists around they were both one of a billion. Same with Mozart lots of formally trained composers around including Beethoven.

 

[SakuraRoseMilkTea]

I guess it really depends on who you ask and what you're asking about, if that makes sense.

If you ask me about math and expect me to know what you're talking about, then no, I'm not a genius.

If you ask me about something I'm interested in, perhaps I could be considered genius by being knowledgeable in one subject.

I like to think genius is wittiness and the ability to adapt under pressure— that's what all the super heroes do, right? So maybe that's a form of genius, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are many different types just like flowers.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

That's what my buddy and i were discussing he has meet many gifted students. none were remotely a genius The best story I ever heard was about Mozart on the great courses. He arranged what we would call a concert sold tickets, while the musicians were warming up wrote the sheet music while they were waiting. that's genius. Zero corrections. 8 billion people on the planet, never repeated.

 

[Suzette]

"Genius" is so over used that it has lost any real meaning. No wonder we can't agree what it is.
Maybe genius is simply the ability to gain a new perspective and arrive at the solution to a "problem" from an angle that is not obvious. You could apply this definition to any subject. "Problem" as in puzzle, not difficulty.

 

[Suzette]

That's what my buddy and i were discussing he has meet many gifted students. none were remotely a genius The best story I ever heard was about Mozart on the great courses. He arranged what we would call a concert sold tickets, while the musicians were warming up wrote the sheet music while they were waiting. that's genius. Zero corrections.

One could say Mozart was "tapped in" to a source beyond his brain function perhaps. Is "genius" a higher power or maybe even an elemental, multi dimensional particle not yet discovered by science? We could imagine that an accident of nature created a brain that had just the right neurological pathways to be able to sense this particle and express that connection outwardly through music.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Einstein solved one of the worlds biggest puzzles. how does gravity work. over one hundred years have gone by. Nothing else comes even close.

"Genious" is so over used that it has lost any real meaning. No wonder we can't agree what it is.
Maybe genious is simply the ablity to gain a new perspective and arrive at the solution to a "problem" from an angle that is not obvious. You could apply this deffinition to any subject. "Problem" as in puzzle, not difficulty.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I agree they have a different perspective. So rare only a few people per billion possess it.

 

[Fino]

I think people can generally recognize actual genius without having to define it.

 

[Suzette]

Einstein solved one of the worlds biggest puzzles. how does gravity work. over one hundred years have gone by. Nothing else comes even close.

I am kind of "in a mood" so take my words in the spirit of conversation and good natured debate.
But I wonder if it is true "nothing else comes even close". Perhaps this is true in discussing physics. But antibiotics have saved billions of lives. There are many more discoveries and inventions that vie for attention too. Perhaps our definition of "genius" lies, in part, in what one values as much as the objective accomplishment.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Michelangelo, was a genius as a sculptor even De Vinci could not match him very accomplished but not a genius in this art form. The two people my buddy met were undoubtedly exceptional, probably not geniuses, true genius is usually not recognized in their life times as they are so rare so the chance of any of us meeting and recognizing one is slim indeed. It takes time

 

[Suzette]

@Ronald Zeeman
"true genius is usually not recognized in their life times as they are so rare so the chance of any of us meeting and recognizing one is slim indeed. It takes time"

<sigh of relief>
Thank you. Now I know my genius is simply unrecognized!

 

[Luca]

I don’t think there should be a real fixed definition. Some people have a mix of really high and really low scores on IQ tests. Some people are really gifted in just one subject, some are really gifted at most things.
I tend to score pretty low on most IQ tests or intelligence tests with the exception of written language and spelling. But I have always been a straight A student and I can tell you anything in the world about dogs. I’m very good at biology and I understand dog genetics. I can retain and catalogue almost everything I’m taught. But I am dumb as all hell in math and I can’t express myself verbally without sounding like a kindergartner. I have no spatial awareness. I can’t memorize phone numbers. I tend to be more emotional than logical. Does that mean I’m not smart? Who knows. It’s arbitrary.
There are people who society collectively thinks of as geniuses and there are also incredibly gifted and talented people who are taken for granted. So I guess it really comes down to how you measure intelligence and how you measure EXTREME intelligence.
But I don’t really know so feel free to disregard everything I said

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I know the feeling, some have been dead for many years, Charles Babbage, Tesla, many of the worlds best painters I doubt Leonardo's fellow painters recognized him as being as exceptional as he really was. 500 years, have gone by and no one else has passed him.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I don’t think there should be a real fixed definition. Some people have a mix of really high and really low scores on IQ tests. Some people are really gifted in just one subject, some are really gifted at most things.
I tend to score pretty low on most IQ tests or intelligence tests with the exception of written language and spelling. But I have always been a straight A student and I can tell you anything in the world about dogs. I’m very good at biology and I understand dog genetics. I can retain and catalogue almost everything I’m taught. But I am dumb as all hell in math and I can’t express myself verbally without sounding like a kindergartner. I have no spatial awareness. I can’t memorize phone numbers. I tend to be more emotional than logical. Does that mean I’m not smart? Who knows. It’s arbitrary.
There are people who society collectively thinks of as geniuses and there are also incredibly gifted and talented people who are taken for granted. So I guess it really comes down to how you measure intelligence and how you measure EXTREME intelligence.
But I don’t really know so feel free to disregard everything I said

Your opinion is as valid as any other one of us including mine.