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Undrstanding Our Lack Of Empathy

Peace

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Families of those with Asperger’s want to know why their Aspies act the way they do. In my psychology practice I have Neuro-typical (NT) clients repeatedly ask me regarding their Asperger spouse, “Why can’t she see what I am saying?” Or they ask, “Why can’t he connect with my feelings?”

Aspies have a huge disconnect between thinking and feeling, or cognitive empathy (CE) and emotional empathy (EE). But what is the cause of this disconnect? That’s the real “why” question.

According to the latest neuroscience research discussed in Simon Baron-Cohen’s book, The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Evil, the cause is poorly working empathy circuits in the brain [1]. The Aspie brain has limited neurological mechanisms in place to understand or empathize with the NT. A way to understand the Aspie’s lack of empathy from a neurological perspective is “out of brain – out of mind.”

No matter how much we explain or teach or train the Aspie mind, certain neurological circuits don’t work as they do in the NT brain. The brain has a number of circuits that are all connected like Christmas lights. If one part doesn’t work right, then the rest of the circuits malfunction, too. These brain circuits are so tightly integrated that multiple circuits depend upon multiple other circuits to carry out sophisticated human behaviors and to comprehend complex thoughts and feelings. Our brains are truly amazing.

True empathy is the ability to be aware of one’s own feelings and thoughts at the same time you are aware of another person’s feelings and thoughts (or several other persons’). It means having the wherewithal to speak about this awareness. It also means creating mutual understanding and a sense of caring for one another. That is a lot of brain circuits to connect!

Let’s look at a sampling of brain parts in the empathy circuits to learn what they actually do for us. Realize that each part is not so functional by itself but needs the other circuits to carry out the complex empathy task of really stepping into the shoes of another person.

  • The medial prefrontal cortex compares your perspective to another person’s perspective.
  • The dorsal medial prefrontal cortex helps you understand your own thoughts and feelings.
  • The ventral medial prefrontal cortex stores information about how strongly you feel about a course of action.
  • The inferior frontal gyrus helps with emotion recognition.
  • The caudal anterior cingulate cortex is activated with pain, both when you feel yours and observe it in others.
  • The anterior insula is involved in bodily self-awareness, something that is tied to empathy.
  • The right temporoparietal junction helps you judge another person’s intentions and beliefs.
  • The amygdala plays a central role in empathy because of its connection to fear, thereby cueing you to look at someone’s eyes to help you gather information about that person’s emotions and intentions. People with Asperger’s Syndrome avoid eye contact unless they are specifically instructed to look someone in the eye. Think of all the information that is lost by not looking into someone’s eyes.
  • The mirror neuron system connects several parts of the brain. It responds when you engage in an action and when you observe others engage in an action. For example, these neurons fire when you gaze in a certain direction or observe another person gazing in the same direction (hence, “mirroring”). The interplay of these multiple and interacting empathy circuits is complicated. Your mirror neurons make you look in the same direction as the speaker, but you also need other empathy circuits to make meaning of why you are looking.
These are just a few regions of the brain’s empathy circuits. You can see that it’s a very complex system. If a single one of them doesn’t work, the whole network suffers, and so do our relationships.

For example, your mirror neurons may signal you to mirror a speaker and look in the same direction he or she is looking, but they don’t tell you why to look in the same direction. Your caudal anterior cingulated cortex may signal that another person is experiencing pain, but it doesn’t signal you to speak about it—or give you a clue as to what to say. The brain’s empathy circuits must work together in a complex system, sending signals back and forth, to create an integrated and highly sophisticated “lights on” response. Remember, it is not empathy unless you respond appropriately to the other person.

“Will Aspies always be like this?” Researchers and clinicians aren’t sure. There are some promising therapies. So far we really have as little information on successful clinical interventions as we do on the genetic and neurological structure of the brain. For now the bottom line is that NTs need to turn on the lights for their Aspie mates and children. Helping Aspies through the mysterious world of nonverbal and verbal empathy is not so stressful if NTs don’t take it personally. It is equally true that Aspie family members must accept coaching by their NT spouse as well as by the family psychologist. That requires a great deal of love and acceptance on the Aspie’s part.

Both the NT and the Aspie need to look to the good intentions behind the clumsy behaviors and bad manners. Each partner needs to be respectful of, kind to, and patient with each other. The Aspie needs to recognize that he or she does indeed have zero degrees of empathy. And, the Aspie needs to stop expecting that his or her grasp of the facts should rule.

The NT needs to recognize that zero degrees of empathy can co-exist with feelings of caring. If an AS/NT couple is going to be successful, both parties need to work with the other’s systems. That provides you with a place to start creating a pattern of working together for the sake of the family, as long as you both have loving intentions.

Reference

Baron-Cohen, Simon. (2011). The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Evil. New York: Basic Books, Inc.

Baron-Cohen suggests the cause of an Asperger’s sufferer’s lack of good social skills is poorly working empathy circuits in the brain.

Neuroscience Sheds Light on Why People with Asperger’s Syndrome Lack Empathy | Psych Central
 
So according to the reference this information came from, Aspies have "zero" empathy. To be able to accept that statement as fact, it would be necessary to have at least two more references that also back up what this reference is saying. It would also be further proof if one source had an experiment that also proved the statement.

I just don't know how the fact that Aspies having "zero empathy" could really be proven since Aspies come in all different degrees of Aspieism (my word) and also due to science not even being close to understanding what the brain is capable of.

This is very informative information, Peace. Thank you for going to the hard work of putting it together.
 
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The erosion of empathy by Simon Baron-Cohen:


Note his distinction between how autistic people process empathy versus psychopaths.

Cognitive versus affective empathy.
 
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I was going to ask if there was any relation to Sacha Baron Cohen, but I just had to Google it to find that they're cousins.
 
The erosion of empathy by Simon Baron-Cohen:


Note his distinction between how autistic people process empathy versus psychopaths.

Cognitive versus affective empathy.

So, Aspies have empathy then, right? They just don't know how to process it outwardly?
 
I find that I can imagine, or picture in my mind, what someone has experienced provided they provide sufficient description. I'm just very awkward when it comes to knowing how to respond and tend to refer to a response that I've "banked" in my brain for just such a situation. My mind is sort of like a vault of Hallmark verbiage. "I'm so sorry for your loss", "feel better soon", "congratulations on ___". Or perhaps I've seen an approximate interaction take place on T.V., in which case I've been known to quote shows verbatim, unbeknownst to the other person. This also works for small talk or other conversations.
 
I find that I can imagine, or picture in my mind, what someone has experienced provided they provide sufficient description. I'm just very awkward when it comes to knowing how to respond and tend to refer to a response that I've "banked" in my brain for just such a situation. My mind is sort of like a vault of Hallmark verbiage. "I'm so sorry for your loss", "feel better soon", "congratulations on ___". Or perhaps I've seen an approximate interaction take place on T.V., in which case I've been known to quote shows verbatim, unbeknownst to the other person. This also works for small talk or other conversations.

1. I do this for small talk--go to standard responses. I like making people feel good if I can. I don't have the capacity for a lot of it, so I pick my spots and save my energy. I actually prefer it when people give me something to which to respond with empathy--that's when a conversation is really "about" something, when it's meaningful to that person, even if I don't share it myself.

2. This touches on what I feel is inadequate about Baron-Cohen's conception of "lack of cognitive empathy" (he's the "theory of mind" guy, too)... It suggests that the only reason someone wouldn't respond with the "right" response would be because they didn't understand what the person was going through. You measure the person based on what comes out of them. That's how you determine what's inside. Wrong answer on the outside--must be "wrong understanding" on the inside. Sometimes I understand, but I just don't have the energy, or I'm feeling my own feelings.

But that's understandable given Baron-Cohen's age and education. Psychology in his day and age worked based on a "black box" conception of people--basically, we can't understand the "inside" of people because anything they do or say is tainted by subjectivity, so the only thing you can use as a reliable measure is what's observable on the outside. And if what comes out doesn't fit the "right" behaviour--there must be a "disorder" on the inside. That was the dominant thinking in his field back then, so it's natural that his theories would be of that kind.

See what I did there? I put myself in his shoes, and imagined why he would see things the way he does. Cognitive empathy. He comes from the school of psychology that Foucault criticized for normalizing dominant groups' values.

From what I've seen in this world, there's not a lot of "empathy" going on between rich and poor, left-wing and right-wing, black and white, male and female. Empathy is not a norm--it's an ideal.

3. I appreciate what this article is saying about relationships, though.

Remember, it is not empathy unless you respond appropriately to the other person.

I'm trying to imagine someone connecting with how I feel... It's hard for me to imagine empathy being a two-way street.

This is actually making me feel better about disconnections I've experienced. I'm used to blaming myself for being the one who's different, but by this definition, a lot of women don't know how to respond appropriately to me.

I'm hopeful about the future, but I realize that I'm not going be a good fit for just anyone. I'm okay with having special needs!
 
I don't know if I have empathy or not. I have read many articles and other things that say I do. Then I see other articles and such that says aspies do have empathy. So I am very confused though I do see the point of "Cognitive empathy". After I have had an experienced a something I can then empathies with it> Though I have always had a problem with the difference between empathy and sympathy.
 

I've read Brene Brown's books (signed by the author thanks to one of my best friends) and watched her videos, and I am quite certain she's an NT (although she may have some ADHD traits judging by her research behaviours and other things I've gleaned, but I'm not here to diagnose her so I'll just leave it with Occam's razor for now), so I make allowances, but she's helped me a lot. Especially with her research on shame. I believe what she says is universal in benefit. And maybe some of us can't live it externally, but we definitely can internally, we can keep it a secret inside of us if we have to.

I am very deeply empathic and while I haven't mastered direction of it or how to handle it yet (I might never, it's overwhelming under certain variables), I do feel it deeply and it isn't cognitive based. I am well keen on when I'm functioning from my 'head' (intellect) and when I'm functioning from my 'heart'. Sometimes I wonder if I'm autistic at all, but then I remember my lower functioning times, and well, I don't really care much about labels anyway. They do more harm than good as far as I'm concerned. Depending on the purpose in which they are used. I have learned in the past to examine motives and use my cognitive abilities to identify agendas.

This article actually made me a little sick to my stomach but I can't really articulate why at the moment. Perhaps I'll try later. I can say, that the 'feeling' I get from the website, the author and the tone in which this information is presented, and Baron-Cohen himself and his work, sets off many intense inner responses. From my intuition. I do wish to keep abreast of what they're saying about us, though.
 
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Now I'm totally confused, and I think I know why.
Different researchers give different vallues to the word.
So, is it only empathy if we act on what we feel and show that we are empathic?
Because to me, it seems thats where we get our "no empathy" label.

Someone tells me what they're struggling with and I feel for them, because I to have known struggle in various shapes and forms,
but I don't know what the appropriate response is so I either choose not to respond, or I play a wild card and end up "saying the wrong thing".
I don't think that means I lack empathy, I just don't know how to act on it.
 
I realize I don't have a lot of empathy for human beings, but I know I have tons of empathy for animals. I wonder what's up with that. I mean, I "care" about what happens to human beings on an intellectual level, but I don't feel it deeply. I care with my head rather than my heart. When it comes to animals, though, I actually feel it.
 
Now I'm totally confused, and I think I know why.
Different researchers give different vallues to the word.
So, is it only empathy if we act on what we feel and show that we are empathic?
Because to me, it seems thats where we get our "no empathy" label.

Someone tells me what they're struggling with and I feel for them, because I to have known struggle in various shapes and forms,
but I don't know what the appropriate response is so I either choose not to respond, or I play a wild card and end up "saying the wrong thing".
I don't think that means I lack empathy, I just don't know how to act on it.

I very much relate to you on this. To me, empathy is something that is felt, compassion is what causes us to act. That's just my personal working definition. My inner pedant wishes to elaborate but I don't have the time to at the moment. So perhaps later.

The sentence that leapt out at me from the article and caused me the most um, panic, was the one where their definition of empathy included following through to action, but that seems preposterous to me. Telling me that what I feel is irrelevant unless I do something specific and particular with it. Is what it felt like. Well, I do protest and most emphatically.

Dr. Brown's work on sympathy vs. empathy was very insightful to me. Her work on shame even much better. But I must give the standard disclaimer that I've been a sheep in wolf's clothing* for most of my life, being a late diagnosee. I know that this has informed my perspective, and sometimes it's difficult to know exactly how much.

I've seen a lot of empathy here.

*is a joke, as a writer sometimes I can't pass up on a line, but I have not and do not ever plan to be 'wolflike' in the worst sense of the metaphor, I just mean that I've had to act like others around me to fit in, in adult life. I know some are very literal so I wanted to be clear on that.
 
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So, Aspies have empathy then, right? They just don't know how to process it outwardly?

I think so. Of course like most traits and behaviors, it is likely to vary on how well we can project empathy to others. Some better than others.
 
Is there a discernable difference between empathizing with someone's emotions and empathizing with someone's physical distress? For example, when I watch Ridiculousness, I cringe and go "Ooooo" when someone is injured. But, when I watch a chick flick (not by choice, usually), I have a hard time connecting with the characters when they're exhibiting emotional turmoil.
 
Now I'm totally confused, and I think I know why.
Different researchers give different vallues to the word.
So, is it only empathy if we act on what we feel and show that we are empathic?
Because to me, it seems thats where we get our "no empathy" label.

Someone tells me what they're struggling with and I feel for them, because I to have known struggle in various shapes and forms,
but I don't know what the appropriate response is so I either choose not to respond, or I play a wild card and end up "saying the wrong thing".
I don't think that means I lack empathy, I just don't know how to act on it.
The fact is, different people use the word "empathy" to mean different things.
 
I realize I don't have a lot of empathy for human beings, but I know I have tons of empathy for animals. I wonder what's up with that. I mean, I "care" about what happens to human beings on an intellectual level, but I don't feel it deeply. I care with my head rather than my heart. When it comes to animals, though, I actually feel it.

I feel exactly the same and for my entire f%$^)*g life. I can relate to animals on a spontaneous and natural level which includes my feelings, but I can't connect to humans. One reason might be that the latter's feelings are way too complicated and muddled, whereas the feelings of animals are quite simple and referring to the actual moment, just like mine.
Despite the best intentions I can't feel compassion for people who complain about their age or the weather, for instance. That's just acoustic pollution.
 
I, too, have always felt more deeply for animals. For eight years, I was a vegan and an animal rights activist. (An abusive relationship coerced me out of it).
I just can't seem to connect to people, but can with animals. When I was a little kid, my dad was talking about some case of animal abuse and described that a dog was tied to a pole and beaten with a baseball bat. I remember bursting into tears at the thought of this. This may be controversial, but when Columbine happened and the Twin Towers, I "felt" nothing, though I was horrified on an intellectual level, knowing in my head how terrible these events were.
 
I would like to add that "empathy" which means feeling what someone else is feeling, is not the same thing as caring about somebody. One can care about someone without feeling empathy, and one can have empathy without actually caring about that person.
It's interesting to read this thread in conjunction with another thread that's been started on AC about empathy.
A nuanced view of empathy | AspiesCentral.com
 
What have found intriguing is that it more easy to empathize wit another aspie than with an NT. I have described not being able to empathize with an NT. Like the mime behind the invisible wall. I want to but I can't. Whereas with another aspie I can somehow sidestep that wall and empathize. However that is. I get really confused. Can we somehow sense the difference between aspies ad NT's and aspies? This is where I am confused.
 

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