Unbiased Trans Information?

[All-Rounder]

@Jonn

There's a problem with the "two sides" trope that induces immediate distrust in people who prefer facts to rhetoric.

It's a useful principle to apply when reviewing something. In that context it helps get the complete picture, and can help tighten up your argument.

But it's used a lot, not least in the domain that's the focus for this discussion, to dishonestly weaken an opponents argument by implying what @Ronald Zeeman explained above - the illusion that both sides have the same weight.

That rationale would have us teaching epicycles as a potentially valid explanation for planetary motion

Deferent and epicycle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We best be careful of all-or-nothing things, though. Grey areas exist. (Black and White thinking reference)

And this is also because this comparison is not exactly accurate. When you have two grand compounds of studies and views that involve people abiding by them by preference, which might also each contain a lot of lies, it's not the same as with two theories of the universal laws which are pretty tight cut to the truth. It's either one or another.

Whilst with a collection of research to be attributed to each side, as well as speech that is meant to influence and grant some bigger people success, it's quite different.

A scientific proposition might still have parts of it which are true as well, well researched, even if altogether it's a false theory.

 

[Hypnalis]

I never assume both opinions are equal.

What you assume isn't relevant unless it's stated.

I suppose you just missed the point of my post, but it makes no difference now.
FWIW I made that post because it's the same topic as the one about whether motivation changes the objective consequences of an action.

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.’
‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master—that’s all.’

 

[Jonn]

What you assume isn't relevant unless it's stated.

I was making my position clear that I don't believe, as a default, that 2 differing opinions are of equal weight.
I think is it time to get back on topic.

 

[All-Rounder]

What you assume isn't relevant unless it's stated.

I suppose you just missed the point of my post, but it makes no difference now.
FWIW I made that post because it's the same topic as the one about whether motivation changes the objective consequences of an action.

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.’
‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master—that’s all.’

When we're talking about people, which is where motivation comes into real life settings, it's different.

We can't take motivation as a concept untied to life events and humans who tend to have certain motivations.

Given the creation of relationships and based on what decisions we make in terms of building connections, the simple motivation argument is lost in all the other factors of life. We also have to consider that current motivation is sometimes going to affect the future.

But usually, motivation is invisible, particularly in the case of manipulative intent, so while it's worth to test friendships or let time test them if you have time, cat and mouse games aren't great also because manipulation plays on that particular act, but if it seems some situation is becoming quite dangerous, I think it's indicative of some change necessary.

 

[Ella Spell]

All trans information is going to be biased, either by trans people with successful transitions, trans people with regrets, by doctors for and against, or even by judgmental people.

They say if you've met one autistic person you've met one autistic person. I believe the same is true with transgendered people. Their biology, their support system, and their emotional needs are always unique. No two people will have the same experience whether they transition or not. In that respect it's hard to find truly unbiased information because even statistics don't represent people who haven't been questioned. All people's thoughts can change over time, too.

I know several transgendered people with and without gender-affirming surgery. My cousin's child (afab) did affirmation surgery during Covid, in their 30's. My exbf is trans amab. I also know several transgendered people who came out post-puberty and they're all at different stages of social transition. Everyone is content with their choice, whatever that may be.

As for the physical ramifications I don't know details as it's none of my business, so long as they are healthy and their mental health is going well which it seems to be. The biggest part of that is social support and compassion.

 

[vergil96]

Back to the original topic, it seems like the problem is the mental health and social isolation. It's a difficult thing, but we can't know why that is. Maybe she has a transphobic environment and she's afraid that she will be bullied by others in some manner or even harassed in the street. Perhaps she wants to have facial or genital surgery to avoid harassment. We don't really know enough details to know and maybe we shouldn't know, because it's her life and she didn't consent to publishing it on the internet.

Like @Ella Spell said, statistics and generalized information won't offer information on what is likely going on, especially in the emotional aspect - which I figure is the concern? It's hard to talk about specifics when it comes to surgery or medication, when nothing specific is being mentioned. You can DM me about medical information and I will try to reply and find information, when I have enough time. I'm transgender and haven't had surgery, although I educated myself and people in my family also had to go through genital surgery due to health conditions.

 

[Fino]

Wow, a long conversation went on!

Initially, my intention was to learn about objective medical facts such as, "Having this particular surgery may or always results in this negative effect." Basically, what risks are involved, perhaps expressed through statistics but not necessarily.

But that doesn't mean I don't find any value in personal experiences. But, like I said in my original post, I hear one side saying there are no risks and another side listing substantial, dramatic risks. My goal was to find out something closer to the reality.

Someone mentioned a while back about autism confusing the issue. She is autistic, so perhaps that's something to take into account.

 

[vergil96]

Initially, my intention was to learn about objective medical facts such as, "Having this particular surgery may or always results in this negative effect." Basically, what risks are involved, perhaps expressed through statistics but not necessarily.

With surgeries, it's true that young people have a low incidence of complications. But you know, it's up to the person if they're ready to go through all the usual hardships of surgery - anesthesia, recovery period, nerve damage. The specifics also depend on the kind of surgery. Some facial surgery is minimally invasive like plastic surgery of the nose of the Adam's apple, but there are some surgeries that are much more invasive and require more recovery. Same with genital surgery, orchidectomy is low risk, SRS... I'm not an expert on trans female SRS, but many people do it and are happy, although it's not an original vagina and the results wouldn't make everyone happy (even though most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference). Long term complications with the urinary tract aren't common in the MtF direction. There is infertility, obviously. Many trans people despise their fertility and would be more than happy to be free from it... Genital surgeries are relatively safe in the realm of surgeries. So are facial and breast surgeries. Not to say that they don't require a recovery period and that results are always satisfactory for everyone. They're also irreversible... but it's not something people aren't aware of.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Fino

If you want useful information, you'll have to actively search for it.

For "T" it's currently very difficult to get good information. The problem isn't no information, but disinformation.
You know less after listening to listening to propaganda.