Tony Attwood

[Ronald Zeeman]

My brother has undergraduate degree in psychology, I do not have much respect for the so-called soft sciences.

 

[Twilight]

I was diagnosed with Autism Level 1 by a psychologist with a related PhD after several days of thorough, research-based neuropsychological testing. Psychiatrists don't administer that type of testing. Psychiatrists around here diagnose conditions that are treatable with medication - ADHD, bipolar, depression, PTSD, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. - by conducting interviews and patient-completed questionnaires.

 

[Ella Spell]

Mine was a PhD called a C.Psych or clinical psychologist, but she also had neuropsychologist credentials. It was a 12 hour assessment with an extra few hours worth of encrypted tests done at home by computer. In addition I wrote a 188 page response to the Developmental History questions.

(I put postcards on the cover to take the picture, to block out my real photograph.)

There's no way a psychiatrist would have time or the relevant background in developmental neuropsychology to understand autism, or to interpret my scores.


My ADHD testing was actually longer than ASD at 20 hours instead of 12. That's because ADHD can be treated with drugs which increase our heart rate / blood pressure, and I'd already had a stroke at that time. They had to be very specific in diagnosing my exact type of ADHD so they could prescribe the right med without killing me. I actually had a second stroke nine months after starting my ADHD meds. It's serious business and they can be sued if they prescribe the wrong medication based on patient history.

 

[Jonn]

When my brother was diagnosed being on the spectrum was not a thing, my dad's cousin was a child physiatrist.
I can see it now having diagnosed myself and joining this site.

I was diagnosed about 40 years ago by a psychologist.
I didn't even ask for it.
He said I had "very mild autism".
Back then, there was no "Asperger" dx.

I didn't take much interest in researching autism until I was about 40.
Dr Google wasn't around back then, and society was very ignorant.
What a pity.

 

[Ella Spell]

You told me you weren't diagnosed. ^

 

[Twilight]

You told me you weren't diagnosed. ^

Me too. I'm very confused.

 

[Crossbreed]

We aren't the best ppl at procreation.

Don't knock amateur creation...!

 

[Ella Spell]

Back on topic, I notice no one's commenting on Attwood's clear lack of understanding about autistic meltdowns. Seems to me that my friend should be the millionaire expert with the PhD and not him.

 

[tazz]

psychiatrists seldom know anything about autism, seeing as it's not a mental illness and their job is to treat mental illness.

There's no way a psychiatrist would have time or the relevant background in developmental neuropsychology to understand autism

I agree with a lot of what you've said but I don't think I'd write off psychiatrists like that.

Maybe I've misunderstood your point so I apologise if so. But anyway I wanted to say...

Lots of conditions are like that - there are doctors who are specialists and by comparison all the other doctors don't know the condition very well. The non-specialists might well be useless to me, but I've got on ok so far with the specialists.

I think there's something to be said for training and academic knowledge. A doctor doesn't need to have a condition in order to identify someone with that condition and know what might be a good treatment. They might not have a good insight into the experience of someone with that condition, but they can still be very useful in diagnosing and treating it.

I think there's also a question about whether someone who experiences autism but has no medical knowledge can offer useful advice either. My experience is that they can, but they are specialists in a different way.

And let's not forget that both doctors and autistic people are also human - some of them are competent and sensible and others are not. Just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they can say anything useful to me about the condition. Just because someone is not autistic doesn't mean they have no useful information for me.

Your comment about autism not being a mental illness is very interesting. Perhaps it's different here in the UK, but the psychiatrist who did my autism assessment was very good. The purpose of the assessment was specifically limited to diagnosis and excluded treatment so he had no incentive to prescribe any medication even if some was available.

I agree it's not an illness. That's why I always refer to it as ASC not ASD. It's the way I am. I don't have a problem with autism, I have a problem with living in this world with autism.

I struggle to do certain things. I wouldn't struggle to do those things if I didn't have autism. But I also wouldn't struggle if the world was set up differently and didn't force me to do those things.

I think in the end there's a whole load of information about autism that is useful to have; information that helps me cope with living in this world with this condition. I need a medical understanding of the condition - that helps. I need to speak with other people who also experience the condition - that helps. I need to think critically about both groups and what they're telling me because both can give me duff info at times.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Wow got a good discussion started, only started this thread as I'm keeping an eye on my granddaughter for signs of autism. Tony seemed to have some insights.

 

[Magna]

Maybe that should be the new catch phrase "Articulating Autism", rather than "Autism Awareness"

^ The best statement I've read in a long time. I think this is great.

 

[Magna]

I've managed to create a couple more for the ASD clan!!!!

I have an autistic friend that I haven't talked to in awhile but before she and her husband had their first child she had the expected worries of a first time soon to be mother (e.g. pregnancy, childbirth), but she also had a worry that her child might end up being....NT.

Our other autistic friends and I totally understood that and only in the way that autistics could understand that.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Both my sons are NT, did my bit for Canadian demographics.

 

[tazz]

Here is my friend interviewing Tony Attwood.

I'm shocked at how much he doesn't understand, including meltdowns.

I notice no one's commenting on Attwood's clear lack of understanding about autistic meltdowns. Seems to me that my friend should be the millionaire expert with the PhD and not him.

I have to say there was nothing about that video that made me think he doesn't understand meltdowns. Quite the opposite.

I've used this interview technique myself, where I am on a panel, in front of an audience of students, talking to an expert. I will ask questions for my colleague to answer, even though I already know the answers. The point is to make it easy for the audience to follow. Like I'm asking questions on behalf of the audience and sometimes even feigning surprise in order to highlight a point that is important or that I think might be easy to overlook. That conversational style is very effective, perhaps more so than one person standing up and presenting the material.

That's the impression I got from that video. Mr Atwood seems to know his stuff but was simply feeding questions to your friend, to facilitate the discussion not because he didn't know the answers already. He seemed very comfortable with the material as if nothing was really unexpected in her answers because he already knows the subject well.

Incidentally, your friend was extremely articulate and explained some particular types of meltdown and triggers more clearly than I've heard before. It's the first time I've ever heard someone describe a particular trigger that I have like that - with regard to conversations and particular types of conversation, and that the "explosion in my brain" is physically painful.

"...they tend to be particularly associated with language, with conversation. And it has to do with the type of conversation. If I'm talking to somebody and ... what they're saying is completely illogical and senseless... my brain cannot compute that and it will cause me to have a sensation in my brain that is physically painful..."

Also I liked what she was saying about the distinction between tantrum and meltdown, and particularly that no-one is having a meltdown by choice. She explained that very clearly.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

^^This^^ Well said. I completely agree.

"Reggie" was explaining meltdowns, from her perspective. Now, from her pre-interview discussion, she admittedly describes her susceptibility to trauma, burnout, and frequently not feeling well. She appears psychologically "brittle", and this is unfortunate, even sad. This is her autism experience. Her triggers for meltdowns and how they occur under what circumstances and the frequency of them, in my opinion, is an "outlier". These are not triggers for myself, nor many others here, but perhaps a few. I also work at one of the largest children's hospitals in the US, and we interact with autistic children daily, so I do have some degree of comparison to suggest this. Now, what she suggests in terms of how to handle meltdowns personally, as well as, advice for others interacting with someone having an autistic meltdown, in my opinion, was more useful or valuable information.

So, to claim that someone with 40+ years of autism experience, interacting with autistic individuals every day, "doesn't know autism" seems highly unlikely. He was simply allowing Reggie to lead the interview and explain her perspective, and then, occasionally ask some leading questions.

To say this in another way, her autism experience is not my autism experience, nor anyone else's. It is unique to her. Her experience should not be shallowly interpreted as "this is how autism presents".

 

[Jonn]

Wow got a good discussion started, only started this thread as I'm keeping an eye on my granddaughter for signs of autism. Tony seemed to have some insights.

We aimz to plz.

Yep, I don't blindly dismiss what Tony says.
I probably should check up on his position these days, however.

 

[Jonn]

That's the impression I got from that video. Mr Atwood seems to know his stuff but was simply feeding questions to your friend, to facilitate the discussion not because he didn't know the answers already. He seemed very comfortable with the material as if nothing was really unexpected in her answers because he already knows the subject well.

I will have to watch the video.
I need to catch up with Tony.
It has been a while.

 

[Jonn]

^^This^^ Well said. I completely agree.

I agree with your agreement.

 

[Ella Spell]

What did Tony say about meltdowns that showed he was an expert?

I didn't catch that part. He suggested speaking to people in meltdown state. He didn't seem to know that we'd want an absence of stimuli. He didn't seem to know the difference of meltdowns and tantrums, or the fact meltdowns don't involve emotion.

I respect his research but as far as I could tell, he had nothing to add to the topic and didn't sound any more knowledgable than a lay person.

 

[Ella Spell]

If a psychiatrist knows about ASD that's great, but where I live they aren't authorised to diagnose it. I've seen a few psychiatrists since my ASD diagnosis (Level 2) and they were totally useless in terms of support. The only reason I went to them was because I had a big stroke, and psychiatry is required as part of the stroke rehab program because many stroke patients develop depression. My psychiatrists didn't know anything about ASD other than the stereotypes, but quite frankly they were useless with my stroke care and my pre-existing mental health conditions too. I felt gaslit no matter what I said. I was never so glad as when I finished my required hours and got out of there.

My previous psychiatrist was arrested and lost his licence for sleeping with patients. It's all on public record so I've read the gory details of everything he said and did.

I don't have much faith in psychiatry but that's nothing to do with my answer pertaining to ASD. The bottom line is that they aren't allowed to diagnose or provide front-line care for ASD patients here, so it's just as well that we all get help from psychologists. Psychiatry has a 3-4 year wait list, also.