Till They Know You're Smart----

[OkRad]

That is so ableist.

And you are not that much better, if you think it's okay to talk down to someone who doesn't understand long words.

But what I think is the actual explanation is that people like when their expectations are met, which would be when thing "are what they look like". No advice, just… I think that's why.

Huh? Who is talking down to whom? They are perfectly capable of using and understanding two syllable words. You can hear them doing so when talking to other people.

 

[Liam Sifr]

That is so ableist.

And you are not that much better, if you think it's okay to talk down to someone who doesn't understand long words.

But what I think is the actual explanation is that people like when their expectations are met, which would be when thing "are what they look like". No advice, just… I think that's why.

I would not think that was his intention in the first place. I think OKRad was trying to say that people tend to underestimate persons on the spectrum. They may be genuinely interested (or just trying to solicit small talk) when they ask what he was reading. His response would have been less than honest (at least to him) if he had not simply stated his response as a matter of fact.

His responses have been the result of trial and error mostly (probably) and he came to the realisation that it makes everyone else appear less intelligent. I don't think he was overtly doing it to solicit isolation.

It was the typical human response of shrinking away in what he observed as shame that he has indicated to be a turn off and why he feels disconnected with the rest of the world (we all do with varying degrees).

What I think he is expressing is a need to connect with someone whom holds a similar disposition to his interests (or at least choose to be intrigued as opposed to ashamed) and carry on beyond the initial (and mostly awkward) small talk.

 

[Full Steam]

So they will ask me what I am reading to get a sense. This is classic. And I say, "Oh, It's a new treatise on physics by so and so...." or whatever it is. I only read academic non fiction so it's generally heavy stuff.

I think you know that you are saying it like that partly as a slap down, and I understand why you'd do that.

You could do the same thing but more gently and draw them in.

Maybe you feel bad afterwards because you unconsciously used their feelings against them?

I also think one of the greatest mistakes that humans make is to think only of groups not individuals.

Them, NTs, blacks, whites, musims, Christians.

As soon as we talk in terms of groups not individuals we have de-humaised people. Then it's very easy to think badly of them. It's much harder to do so about an individual.

Judge people if you want but do it one at a time.

Mother Terasa once said that she only did what she did becasue she helped one person, then another, and that if she considered the starving millions she would have been paralysed.

The world = 6 billion unique individuals, each with hopes and dreams.


Sorry, probably a tangent; I'm a bit brain fatigued right now.

 

[OkRad]

Judge people if you want but do it one at a time.

I like that. I try not to judge. But if I do, I will remember this. Still, fornow, it's not about judging them. It's getting burned out on the mental gyrations we have to go through.

"Did they mean that? Did I hurt them? Should I have been more open? Should I have told them more? Why did they ask me? Who are they? Will they talk to me again? What will I say next time? [Big long Elaborate Detailed Conversation In My Mind Inserted Here For ;Next Time''] Am I overthinking this? I am overthinking this. How do I stop overthinking this? I forgot the milk again, dammit, that is the third day in a row. What the hell is wrong with you, idiot?!!"

All that in about 15 seconds and more to follow all day.

So when someone approaches me now, it's just terror. It's not me vs them or black or white. It's a lifetime of being marginalized, misunderstood, laughed at, abused, neglected DESPITE MY HEROIC efforts the fit in, despite clawing my way up only to have someone every time, stomp on my fingers while I am hanging on the edge of that cliff.

So I have fallen off the cliff. I don't care and no one else really does, so those little calls they shout to me down here? That's nice. But can't really hear them anymore and don't want to.

 

[Full Steam]

I'm with you on the rushing thoughts. It's been with me all my life, and I have no control over them.

I know though that they are just a set of furiously chaotic thought patterns.

They will end, and they are not me. I didn't ask for them, start them or even collaborate in them.

I know they will end though.

And your wrong that no one cares.. most people care, but they are so wrapped up in their own lives, problems and goals that they feel like they have no time.

Everything that begins also ends. You just have to weather the storm. And when you have come out the other end, you'll have unique experience to help other people going through rough weather.

My favourite quote: if you're going through hell, keep going. Winston Churchill.

PM me any time if you want a chat.

 

[Ylva]

Well, they almost always start with one syllable words and behaviours they would do if they were talking to someone who is not able to speak or is really challenged to the point of not being able to form words or even write.

This seems to say that it's somehow okay to patronize people who can't speak or write. Well, as a matter of fact, the ability to perform such complex motoric actions is no indication of intelligence, so the inability to perform them cannot be a sign of unintelligence. You have no right to assume that such people don't understand what you are doing or saying to them.

I would not think that was his intention in the first place. I think OKRad was trying to say that people tend to underestimate persons on the spectrum. They may be genuinely interested (or just trying to solicit small talk) when they ask what he was reading. His response would have been less than honest (at least to him) if he had not simply stated his response as a matter of fact.

His responses have been the result of trial and error mostly (probably) and he came to the realisation that it makes everyone else appear less intelligent. I don't think he was overtly doing it to solicit isolation.

It was the typical human response of shrinking away in what he observed as shame that he has indicated to be a turn off and why he feels disconnected with the rest of the world (we all do with varying degrees).

What I think he is expressing is a need to connect with someone whom holds a similar disposition to his interests (or at least choose to be intrigued as opposed to ashamed) and carry on beyond the initial (and mostly awkward) small talk.

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say with the second paragraph. Solicit isolation?

 

[OkRad]

This seems to say that it's somehow okay to patronize people who can't speak or write. Well, as a matter of fact, the ability to perform such complex motoric actions is no indication of intelligence, so the inability to perform them cannot be a sign of unintelligence. You have no right to assume that such people don't understand what you are doing or saying to them.



Not entirely sure what you are trying to say with the second paragraph. Solicit isolation?

You misunderstand....they are not using one syllable words because they do not know two syllable words. They are using them because they think I cannot understand two syllable words. They use normal language in other capacities.

I worked with people who did NOT have large vocab and they were perfectly intelligent and amazing people. As you said, it's not indication that one is not intelligent.

My objection was originally that people talk down to me and treat me like I am a child, but upon talking this out on here, I can see that I over-react to that. That will happen now and again when I am in a bad mood and don't want to jump through all the mental gyrations, but on the whole I see they don't mean harm.

 

[Mia]

Think that certain types of people are drawn to people like yourself OKrad. It's not so much that you don't talk and seem shy, although that might be part of it. It might be your demeanor, it also might be that you are female, look younger than you actually are. People tend toward treating some females as not terribly bright, as if they were only what appears on the outside. They are the same ones who judge others on appearance.

Also look younger than I am. By about ten years. And it used to happen to me quite a bit. It got to the point that I began letting grey hair show, so that people would be a bit more respectful.

Have a kind of 'excited' personality, that seems to appear childish to some people. It's more that I become excited by ideas and their potential, rather than trying to draw attention to myself.

Used to have this group of friends, we all did things together, and one day we all decided that we would have IQ tests for the fun of it. There were three people in the group whose parents were uni profs, so everyone assumed they would do the best on the IQ tests. These three were the core intellectuals of the group, they were the ultimate authorities on things. When the results came back, I can still see the looks of disbelief on the three faces. Scored so much higher than they did, and they used to tease me at times, when I didn't understand something.

 

[OkRad]

Think that certain types of people are drawn to people like yourself OKrad. It's not so much that you don't talk and seem shy, although that might be part of it. It might be your demeanor, it also might be that you are female, look younger than you actually are. People tend toward treating some females as not terribly bright, as if they were only what appears on the outside. They are the same ones who judge others on appearance.

Also look younger than I am. By about ten years. And it used to happen to me quite a bit. It got to the point that I began letting grey hair show, so that people would be a bit more respectful.

Have a kind of 'excited' personality, that seems to appear childish to some people. It's more that I become excited by ideas and their potential, rather than trying to draw attention to myself.

Used to have this group of friends, we all did things together, and one day we all decided that we would have IQ tests for the fun of it. There were three people in the group whose parents were uni profs, so everyone assumed they would do the best on the IQ tests. These three were the core intellectuals of the group, they were the ultimate authorities on things. When the results came back, I could still see the looks of disbelief on the three faces. Scored so much higher than they did,
and they used to tease me at times, when I didn't understand something.

You nailed it. That look of astonishment when they realize you are intelligent, especially if you are small, young-looking, excitable, eager wide-eyed female! Me, too.

I wonder if they do this to men who are like us? I am sure they get it, but probably more in a bullying way.

I am curious, Mia, do you have more trouble with men or women doing this to you? I find it equal in quantity, but different in quality.

The men are often seeming more protective, the women seem more offput once they find out and THAT is curious to me. In that sense, I would rather be approached by a male because it feels less confusing, more clear cut. With women it feels more confusing.

Older people are usually the same.......very curious and wanting to know more and offer advice. I like older people. They usually have seen it all.

 

[toothless]

That is so unfair. I can tell you are smart because when you write, you write SO CLEARLY about the way things are, it's like I can see it when you write. You have a way above average ability to make things very damn clear!!! They are idiots.

I agree, it's the way that I look and they cannot get past that. I try to empathize. I try to think, what if I were in their shoes and they saw me? I know I would not be mean. But I might be somewhat nervous till I got to know me. Then I might be a bit intimidated. Then I might find that it might be to intense to keep trying. So I get it.

But if I were in a home and they were WORKING with me?? And called in sick? If they were paid to help me and did not want to? I'd be pissed off. You can swear all you want. :-D

thankyou okrad you have made me feel a whole lot better about myself im having a lot of issues at the moment because of voices.

i think everyone has the capacity to make judgements about another person no matter how we all like to think were open minded, but i think we need to remember that not everything is as it seems, like you might see a child having a tantrum in a shop; a lot of people will cuss and blame the parent for having a spoilt child but i start to wonder what if that child has special needs and yet youve got grown adults cussing at him/her,ive trained my open mind to be even more open and careful since quite young because my sister used to work in a care home for adults with schizophrenia [one of them an aspie with paranoid schizophrenia] and because the home was one street away from ours i got to see the service users a lot,theyd say things to me like 'ive not heard from satan today' and i used to automatically think to myself 'thats good,hes having a good day' rather than think 'thats weird' which is what a lot of people would think-you know they would.

its good you can see the other persons view of yourself okrad,but dont let your open mind make you ignore disablist comments or stares;if im aware of stares-i stare back and i notice they look away quickly,you dont deserve disablist treatment just because you dont look/act like a so called 'normal person' -i hate how if you look different in any form [eg,you might have long hair if your a bloke, short hair if your a woman,you might look down and avoid eye contact etc] you get s**t for not being a stereotype of normality.

and thankyou for your goahead for swearing,im glad it hasnt offended you-i would have adapted my language if it had, i am told by everyone i swear like a trouper,i dont understand the social inapropriateness of them so they dont matter to me.
sorry for waffling on.

 

[Mia]

I am curious, Mia, do you have more trouble with men or women doing this to you? I find it equal in quantity, but different in quality.

The men are often seeming more protective, the women seem more offput once they find out and THAT is curious to me. In that sense, I would rather be approached by a male because it feels less confusing, more clear cut. With women it feels more confusing.

It's different with men, they seem to want to somehow control situations and 'cap' the excitable behaviour, as if it were damaging to themselves and all concerned. Or as if those emotive ways needed to be squelched as unacceptable.

A bit like those old movies where someone dies and a woman begins to scream and cry, and people prevent her from expressing her pain by physically holding her back. Not allowing her near the loved one, for some reason, for her own 'good.'

Women certainly react differently, it might be more about their ego's and self-esteem levels, as well as their competitive nature. Which is in no way is as clear cut as men's reactions to women.

 

[Astroganga]

I get this often, one because I look a lot younger than I am (I am 35, look 24, and due to my mannerisms etc have been mistaken for even younger). I have also been told I look simple, gee thanks. When people discover I am neither young nor simple then they act weird.

 

[OkRad]

I get this often, one because I look a lot younger than I am (I am 35, look 24, and due to my mannerisms etc have been mistaken for even younger). I have also been told I look simple, gee thanks. When people discover I am neither young nor simple then they act weird.

Exactly! I have tried to imagine what they think and why they act weird when they find out? Why do they? Are they embarrassed? Maybe they are embarrassed?

 

[OkRad]

thankyou okrad you have made me feel a whole lot better about myself im having a lot of issues at the moment because of voices.

i think everyone has the capacity to make judgements about another person no matter how we all like to think were open minded, but i think we need to remember that not everything is as it seems, like you might see a child having a tantrum in a shop; a lot of people will cuss and blame the parent for having a spoilt child but i start to wonder what if that child has special needs and yet youve got grown adults cussing at him/her,ive trained my open mind to be even more open and careful since quite young because my sister used to work in a care home for adults with schizophrenia [one of them an aspie with paranoid schizophrenia] and because the home was one street away from ours i got to see the service users a lot,theyd say things to me like 'ive not heard from satan today' and i used to automatically think to myself 'thats good,hes having a good day' rather than think 'thats weird' which is what a lot of people would think-you know they would.

its good you can see the other persons view of yourself okrad,but dont let your open mind make you ignore disablist comments or stares;if im aware of stares-i stare back and i notice they look away quickly,you dont deserve disablist treatment just because you dont look/act like a so called 'normal person' -i hate how if you look different in any form [eg,you might have long hair if your a bloke, short hair if your a woman,you might look down and avoid eye contact etc] you get s**t for not being a stereotype of normality.

and thankyou for your goahead for swearing,im glad it hasnt offended you-i would have adapted my language if it had, i am told by everyone i swear like a trouper,i dont understand the social inapropriateness of them so they dont matter to me.
sorry for waffling on.

That is amazing that you gleaned so much compassion from the home for schizophrenics, that not hearing voices does not mean they are weird, it means they are having a good day and you are hoping they have more! You are very, very perceptive. And I love how you use it to build compassion. That is a skill that many people cannot master.

I do think that suffering either makes us bitter or compassionate and believe me, I have had swings both directions, but I find that I am not happy bitter and not good bitter. Some people function bitter and it keeps them alive, and that is fine as long as they are not hurting anyone. But if I walk on a roach, seriously, I feel terrible. I transport them out of the house.

And yes, indeed, swear away. Hehe. I actually read a report where swearing has a function for our brains. It actually makes us feel better when stressed. I am not sure how or why that works. But I can say it does work. It baffles me, but it works :-D

Here is a good article on swearing.

The Science of Swearing: A look into the human MIND and other less socially acceptable four-letter words


One more:
Why the #$%! Do We Swear? For Pain Relief

 

[Adder1234]

I had a teachers aid who was put in charge of helping me out with school when I was diagnosed in year 2. She obviously had never even heard of aspergers, and she definitely didn't know what it was. After a few hours of putting up with her talking to me like I was a baby(I was already doing year 4 level work by this point) I said to her, "Stop talking to me like I'm an idiot. If anyone's the idiot here, it's you."
She went silent for a few seconds then started screaming at me for being rude. So I walked out of the school and went home. I got called into the principals office the next day and got suspended for insulting a teacher. Then my parents came in and had a massive argument with the principal and the teachers aid. I didn't hear most of it because I was outside, but it turns out that no one at the school even knew what aspergers was and the faculty thought that I was retarded when they were told. After that the principal left the school and he teachers aid retired and the school got a psychiatrist.
But I think that most average people don't interact with people who are smarter than them because they are intimidated by them, and they know that they will most likely be more successful than them.

 

[pax]

I posted this in the ranting room only this morning.

Getting really pissed off by a woman at my sporting club, who for reasons best known to herself, treats and speaks to me like a toddler with a low IQ. eg getting in my face and talking in that high pitched voice most people reserve for babies.

This morning she wanted to know what I was doing, and what course I was going out on, ( I suspect because she wanted me to give up my morning exercise to supervise a newbie) but she directed all her questions to the woman standing next to me ie: "Where is PAXXY going? Is PAXXY going out? PAXXY could help me with X if we all go this way.." I told her quite loudly, that I could in fact speak, and speak for myself, and went in the opposite direction.

Strangely, after I called her out she gave me this look - as though I was the one who was being insulting- but gave no response. This is not a one of occurrence from her, as I said, so I have to wonder at her motives.

 

[OkRad]

I posted this in the ranting room only this morning.

Getting really pissed off by a woman at my sporting club, who for reasons best known to herself, treats and speaks to me like a toddler with a low IQ. eg getting in my face and talking in that high pitched voice most people reserve for babies.

This morning she wanted to know what I was doing, and what course I was going out on, ( I suspect because she wanted me to give up my morning exercise to supervise a newbie) but she directed all her questions to the woman standing next to me ie: "Where is PAXXY going? Is PAXXY going out? PAXXY could help me with X if we all go this way.." I told her quite loudly, that I could in fact speak, and speak for myself, and went in the opposite direction.

Strangely, after I called her out she gave me this look - as though I was the one who was being insulting- but gave no response. This is not a one of occurrence from her, as I said, so I have to wonder at her motives.

Oh my gosh! My blood boils reading this!!!

 

[Mia]

Getting really pissed off by a woman at my sporting club, who for reasons best known to herself, treats and speaks to me like a toddler with a low IQ. eg getting in my face and talking in that high pitched voice most people reserve for babies.

Pax do you know if she speaks to everyone in this manner? Once had a friend of a friend who did this, she worked with children in elementary school and spoke to everyone this way, even adults.

 

[pax]

She doesn't appear to, no, and she wasn't talking to me on this occasion; she was talking to the woman next to me. But she is a former teacher.

 

[Professori]

Let's remember a cliche here in the form of a quote: 'There are only two things that are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not so sure about the former.' Albert Einstein.

I don't think he was categorising but referring to humanity in general. There are proportions of intelligent and not so intelligent people in all categories of society. Personally, I dislike the word 'stupid' because it is demeaning.

However, 'intelligent' people can also be 'stupid' if by intelligence we mean a linear understanding and application of the concept. Many geniuses acknowledge that they are gifted in one main field of endeavour, but 'stupid' in many others.

The wisdom to have tolerance toward all is something unique. However, civilisation in general seems to have lost wisdom because by no means is knowledge equivalent to wisdom. We have great knowledge, but seem to have educated ourselves into imbecility.

But that is another story....