I understand a certain thread I started may have set off this thread. The mood at my office that day was dour. I apologize because even though it involved a topic affecting people with autism, I really just wanted to air out a personal grievance.
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The future of Political Discussions on AF
- Thread starter Satal
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Nitro, I know/knew. I understand. I love you for who you are. I suspect that is true for most of the others of us as well.
I thought a post that I submitted that got edited was part of the issue. Normally I stay away from politics.
Thank you for your honesty and vulnerability.
Honour to you for that - would that we all could be more honest when we (I) screw things up.
This post is filled with rethorical questions and points to pause on and contemplate. Im not looking for specific responses!!
My few pence
A forum is an ecosystem, sustainability is critical, this is my primary consideration.
To me, moderators are the lifeblood that keep the system balanced and healthy.
They need support to remain balanced and well, does it exist here?
What adaptations are made to their moderating role to support their individual needs? Is there a policy on this in AF?
How can a person with diagnosably limited social energy navigate the social spats here, the interpersonal misunderstandings and the members that require more attention than others.
Surely that comes at a cost to them? The inclusion for everyone in this situation requires balance, anything extra that tips the scales towards further burnout like politics is not sustainable from my perspective
I feel that all members lives are affected by the policies in our respective countries, solution focussed discussions relative to specific members challenges in these areas is a necessary and practical response.
Where it strays into ideology, "shoulds" "used to be this way" etc and BLAME it becomes an expression of individual bias.
I wonder if it was UK, Russian, or Palestinian politics seeping into the forum how would members in America view this?
On that note is AF American now? I'm interested in balance and integration and a place that has international members. I can have segregation, sectarianism and strife as a result of politics if I step outside into my town. Do I want that in my online Autistic space? Nope, not for me thanks.
If I feel that desire I'll use social media to express my political opinion.
My few pence
A forum is an ecosystem, sustainability is critical, this is my primary consideration.
To me, moderators are the lifeblood that keep the system balanced and healthy.
They need support to remain balanced and well, does it exist here?
What adaptations are made to their moderating role to support their individual needs? Is there a policy on this in AF?
How can a person with diagnosably limited social energy navigate the social spats here, the interpersonal misunderstandings and the members that require more attention than others.
Surely that comes at a cost to them? The inclusion for everyone in this situation requires balance, anything extra that tips the scales towards further burnout like politics is not sustainable from my perspective
I feel that all members lives are affected by the policies in our respective countries, solution focussed discussions relative to specific members challenges in these areas is a necessary and practical response.
Where it strays into ideology, "shoulds" "used to be this way" etc and BLAME it becomes an expression of individual bias.
I wonder if it was UK, Russian, or Palestinian politics seeping into the forum how would members in America view this?
On that note is AF American now? I'm interested in balance and integration and a place that has international members. I can have segregation, sectarianism and strife as a result of politics if I step outside into my town. Do I want that in my online Autistic space? Nope, not for me thanks.
If I feel that desire I'll use social media to express my political opinion.
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Within the public sphere individuals can be triggered emotionally by any topic. The problem is not with the topic, but rather the individual. Everyone has their own life experience, personality traits, knowledge, and so on. There's no way to accurately predict if and when someone is going to post something that will trigger another to have an emotional reaction. The problem, again, is not the topic, but rather the individual.
Having said that, we absolutely CAN NOT allow any one individual have power over what the group is discussing. It reinforces some narcissistic and sociopathic traits when one can manipulate the content on a public forum with their disruptive, emotional reactions and shut down an entire discussion.
As others have suggested, if any one of us does not like the content of a particular thread, they have their full freedom to simply avoid it and not interact. I don't think any of us read ALL the threads on the forums, but rather just a relative few. We make our choices.
Having said that, we absolutely CAN NOT allow any one individual have power over what the group is discussing. It reinforces some narcissistic and sociopathic traits when one can manipulate the content on a public forum with their disruptive, emotional reactions and shut down an entire discussion.
As others have suggested, if any one of us does not like the content of a particular thread, they have their full freedom to simply avoid it and not interact. I don't think any of us read ALL the threads on the forums, but rather just a relative few. We make our choices.
I think we need to be able to talk about the political interests of autistic people here. We need the freedom to advocate for autism, otherwise It will weaken us as a group against those who oppress us. I think being accused of bias is inevitable, at some point modding does involve some arbitrary decisions.
It might be worth thinking, how many flashpoints are there? Is conflict as common as it feels right now?
It might be worth thinking, how many flashpoints are there? Is conflict as common as it feels right now?
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Selfishly, I admit that the omission of politics from the forum would make my life easier, but as I have read members' contributions to this thread, I can see that many find value in allowing political discussions to continue.
We come here to form a community. The integrity of the community with the designated purpose of helping and supporting each other is the most important thing to me. Support does not always have to be total agreement, but support does have to be respectful, thoughtful, and sincere.
While there is no expectation of perfection from any member, I think it is more than fair to have an expectation of accountability and a steadfast agreement to do our absolute best to do no harm on this forum. That includes all staff members, too - we are simply members here who have signed up to preserve the harmony as guided by the rules as best we can.
I believe that having a politics section would be a good indicator of a thriving community that is able to discuss tough issues and wildly diverse opinions while still respecting each other, the rules, and the well-being of the community here. I want that for all of us.
For the most part, it seems like we can trust each other to conduct ourselves in a manner that does no harm to others. This occurs on the forum every single day. Understandably, there may be occurrences when this does not happen, but I see now that it is not fair to let those few and far between instances change the entire dynamic of the forum. People who are here to engage in productive and respectful conversation about even the most divisive issues should not be punished and lose their space to do that.
We all come here as individuals, but in so doing, we become a group where no one voice is more or less important than another. My best hope is that this conversation alone can help us repair trust in the staff and move on from this with an improved sense of community.
We come here to form a community. The integrity of the community with the designated purpose of helping and supporting each other is the most important thing to me. Support does not always have to be total agreement, but support does have to be respectful, thoughtful, and sincere.
While there is no expectation of perfection from any member, I think it is more than fair to have an expectation of accountability and a steadfast agreement to do our absolute best to do no harm on this forum. That includes all staff members, too - we are simply members here who have signed up to preserve the harmony as guided by the rules as best we can.
I believe that having a politics section would be a good indicator of a thriving community that is able to discuss tough issues and wildly diverse opinions while still respecting each other, the rules, and the well-being of the community here. I want that for all of us.
For the most part, it seems like we can trust each other to conduct ourselves in a manner that does no harm to others. This occurs on the forum every single day. Understandably, there may be occurrences when this does not happen, but I see now that it is not fair to let those few and far between instances change the entire dynamic of the forum. People who are here to engage in productive and respectful conversation about even the most divisive issues should not be punished and lose their space to do that.
We all come here as individuals, but in so doing, we become a group where no one voice is more or less important than another. My best hope is that this conversation alone can help us repair trust in the staff and move on from this with an improved sense of community.
If anything, if we are to continue a valid discussion of politics relative to the existence of autistic people, I see certain issues that must be addressed without the fear of intimidation, petty insults and above all, censorship.
Personal insults and sustained animosity based only on political differences can be resolved with maturity, particularly given that the vast majority of us are adults. However what I find considerably more problematic is the process of editing or deleting posts or entire threads, when they are parsed as going beyond "undefined boundaries".
In the academic school of thought I was exposed to, virtually all relationships between human beings are inherently political ones. That there's simply no getting around this fact. Making it nearly impossible to discuss something that is bound to involve polarized opinions and ideologies at some point.
I find it particularly discouraging when I cannot simply quote laws that have existed for years. Not to support any viewpoint, but to just explain how things work in our particular legal system. Laws already on the books- not laws merely being proposed and up for debate.
I'm just asking for a little leeway in terms of being able to discuss certain issues in the most politically neutral fashion I can muster. While still understanding a community need "to keep the peace", but without having to feel as if I'm always under a cloud of being censored, insulted or bullied.
Personal insults and sustained animosity based only on political differences can be resolved with maturity, particularly given that the vast majority of us are adults. However what I find considerably more problematic is the process of editing or deleting posts or entire threads, when they are parsed as going beyond "undefined boundaries".
In the academic school of thought I was exposed to, virtually all relationships between human beings are inherently political ones. That there's simply no getting around this fact. Making it nearly impossible to discuss something that is bound to involve polarized opinions and ideologies at some point.
I find it particularly discouraging when I cannot simply quote laws that have existed for years. Not to support any viewpoint, but to just explain how things work in our particular legal system. Laws already on the books- not laws merely being proposed and up for debate.
I'm just asking for a little leeway in terms of being able to discuss certain issues in the most politically neutral fashion I can muster. While still understanding a community need "to keep the peace", but without having to feel as if I'm always under a cloud of being censored, insulted or bullied.
No worries, I have taken it upon myself to resign and never subject anyone to my thoughts again
I'm not sure if this fits this thread, but it seems to for me.
I absolutely believe in Freedom of Speech.
Everyone should be able to freely express themselves.
Freedom of speech is very beneficial and constructive.
However, I do not believe in Freedom of Lies.
Lies are destructive, deceptive and are to hurt.
Everything “Human” is dependent on words.
Everything from bedtime stories to engines to medical miracles are all devised and brought into being by information; by words.
Words are the construct of our world - all that we know. It is information. It is communication. It is our lives.
Every building, every man made structure, every computer, everything is created by information.
Only true information is constructive. False information – lies - are destructive.
Differences in opinion or viewpoints are not lying. Misinformation are lies.
You would not want to cross a bridge or fly in an aircraft engineered or constructed with misinformation.
Being consciously loose with facts is lying.
Being mistaken is not a lie, its an error.
The act of intended concealment, distortion and misinterpretation is a lie.
Hearing a rumor then passing it along to others makes you an agent of fraud. A liar.
Lies breed conflict, murder, mass murder and war. War is state sanctioned mass murder. All created out of false accusations, willful ignorance, hatred and bigotry fueled by selfish greed.
I do not believe in Freedom of Harm, including freedom to insult, freedom to disrespect, freedom to humiliate, etc. Each of these are destructive. It is not at all beneficial. It is easy to accurately express yourself without having to harm anyone else.
This is, by far, the best autism forum I have witnessed and I believe that is because of it moderators. I am deeply grateful to their efforts and I feel they do a very good job. As such, I believe moderation is required to prevent a few from ruining the whole.
With that, if this post is in any way inappropriate, please delete it as opposed to editing it. Editing is effectively putting words in my mouth.
Edit to add that moderation is not to prevent anyone's freedom of speech. It is to help prevent Freedom of Harm.
I absolutely believe in Freedom of Speech.
Everyone should be able to freely express themselves.
Freedom of speech is very beneficial and constructive.
However, I do not believe in Freedom of Lies.
Lies are destructive, deceptive and are to hurt.
Everything “Human” is dependent on words.
Everything from bedtime stories to engines to medical miracles are all devised and brought into being by information; by words.
Words are the construct of our world - all that we know. It is information. It is communication. It is our lives.
Every building, every man made structure, every computer, everything is created by information.
Only true information is constructive. False information – lies - are destructive.
Differences in opinion or viewpoints are not lying. Misinformation are lies.
You would not want to cross a bridge or fly in an aircraft engineered or constructed with misinformation.
Being consciously loose with facts is lying.
Being mistaken is not a lie, its an error.
The act of intended concealment, distortion and misinterpretation is a lie.
Hearing a rumor then passing it along to others makes you an agent of fraud. A liar.
Lies breed conflict, murder, mass murder and war. War is state sanctioned mass murder. All created out of false accusations, willful ignorance, hatred and bigotry fueled by selfish greed.
I do not believe in Freedom of Harm, including freedom to insult, freedom to disrespect, freedom to humiliate, etc. Each of these are destructive. It is not at all beneficial. It is easy to accurately express yourself without having to harm anyone else.
This is, by far, the best autism forum I have witnessed and I believe that is because of it moderators. I am deeply grateful to their efforts and I feel they do a very good job. As such, I believe moderation is required to prevent a few from ruining the whole.
With that, if this post is in any way inappropriate, please delete it as opposed to editing it. Editing is effectively putting words in my mouth.
Edit to add that moderation is not to prevent anyone's freedom of speech. It is to help prevent Freedom of Harm.
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Please no! Nitro, please don't let this incident cause you to disappear. I want to know what you think, even if it is different from what I think. Good Heavens, I listen and my opinions have changed over time.
I don't want a life where all people who differ from my opinions don't talk to me. We all need to discuss and consider and learn. That is what life is about. Ongoing growth and learning. That's just my opinion, of course. Still, I don't want you to stop talking.
I can't see anything triggering about Judge's post to make you that upset. What did you want us to say?
Judge, I don't know what happened with your particular posts.
I have brought up historical facts relative to current discussions and I don't think I was edited. I haven't checked. My personal opinion is the historical fact can and should be brought up.
I don't think you should be under a cloud. That sounds just awful.
People make mistakes all the time. Me, especially. It grieves me to see the people I care about hurting.
The mods here do an exceptional job. It is hard work for little to no appreciation. I am sure mistakes occur. Let's please, please, understand that from our individual viewpoints, they may make mistakes. Or they just may make decisions we don't agree with. That's all allowed because we are all fallible human beings.
I was speaking of older posts on other matters over the years. Though admittedly that was also involving a post outside the realm of autism. When "politics" was still permitted. A question of policy, and whether it can be changed.
The distinction of historic "landmark" Supreme Court decisions. Particularly those relative to "free speech" which have broadened rather than restricted some of our First Amendment rights.
Cases involving extremist political entities well outside the mainstream. Not about their politics, but simply how they made an influence in expanding our rights.
I'm just hoping for a distinction to be made for laws that have been around a long time, as opposed to laws still being argued over, and the object of political intrigue. Though if we limit discussion only to autism as in the present, it may well be a moot point.
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That's a lovely sentiment, and I agree that people should not start lies with malicious intent. However, most people can't tell if they have their facts straight. We generate a story with internal logic that suits our predispositions, and generally believe anything that fits, and reject anything that does not. If a debate gets dangerously close to forcing a change in someone's story, odds are that the subject will suddenly change.
You have the option of not subscribing to the politics section.
RemyZee
Mystic Turtles
I definitely have been one to accidentally break the rules and talk about politics--I tend to forget. Sorry about that. It all just seems to be kind of high octane right now, not knowing what's coming next. Especially now when we don't have our bearings, things changing moment to moment. I tend to get sucked into a big vortex of disaster thinking, kind of frantic feeling. The mods you guys are a constant in the context of many different needs and personality and somehow you maintain good spirits when things get complex. One thing you might consider if you do keep the politics section would be to request people stay non partisan in our posts and frame it in that way.
Wishful thinking, but this is what I want, also.
Unfortunately, too many people rather debate than to share observations and information.
Opinions are aplenty.
Facts, not so much.
It amazes me how difficult it is for some ppl to hang up their personal political narrative and embrace an objective mindset.
Pointing this out might make some ppl think before they engage.
Unfortunately, you can take a wombat to logic, but you can't make it think, at times.
Hooah! to the thinking wombats out there!
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