Socrates as a pre-Christian prophet for nerds and logicians

[Levitator]

I wanted to describe the reasons I think Jesus was an anonymous contributor to the testimony of Socrates, and what their combined message was. First of all, I don't subscribe to Christian dogma and religious organization the same way as people who view it as their sports team. Christianity is not exclusive to me, it doesn't invalidate the rest of the religions, and if you believe that God is universal, then you trust that he isn't going to leave all of the other religions or philosophies out to dry without contributing to them. God is everywhere, and if Socrates was a good man, then God was there. Let's bear in mind that Socrates was a Greek philosopher who lived far from Bethlehem about half a millennium before the birth of Jesus.

1) The lives of Socrates and Jesus rhymed. Both were men who were put to death by their government for discussing morality

2) Socrates said that he was "the midwife to the truth", due to his rhetorical style, where he mostly asked questions instead of telling anyone anything. Later, Jesus Christ said that he was himself "The Truth". (John 14:6)

3) Plato documented Plato's Cave, based on a discussion with Socrates, which discusses a kind of rebirth which might be analogous to the Christian "Born Again". Socrates said that man lives tied up in a cave, where all he can see are shadows, and so he thinks that everything is a shadow, and then one day, one man is released from the cave, and he discovers the actual objects which were casting the shadows which he formerly believed to be the full extent of reality and experience. Then, when he returns to the cave to release the other cave dwellers, they recoil with anger and resentment, refusing to abandon their delusions or restraints. The cave dwellers were ultimately so offended that they killed Socrates much like Jesus.

4) In my opinion, Socrates greatest question was; what do all of the virtues have in common that joins them together as being of one single thing or kind? Nobody could answer him. Towards the end of his life, Jesus stated that the whole of the law is contained in the principle of love (of God first and others second). If we contemplate that virtues are the definition of good, then who doesn't love all virtues? Then love is what all virtues have in common.

5) P.S. Even though Socrates is largely considered a secular philosopher for logic and reason, he also said that music is divinely inspired, so he was not an atheist. It's just that his best attempts at morality came through logic because it was the best that he could do at the time.

 

[Cryptid]

a. Socrates was a Classical Greek-Athenian philosopher who was born around 470 B.C and died around 399 BC.
b. Jesus of Nazareth (called "Christ" or "Messiah" by some) was born around 4 B.C. and died around 31 A.D.
: : The life of Socrates preceded the life of Jesus by about 395 years. Unless an angel of the Lord inspired Socrates (for which there is no evidence), Jesus could not have contributed to the musings of Socrates.

Gong Fu-Tsu ("Confucius") was a Chinese philosopher and politician who was born about 551 B.C. and died about 479 B.C.). His life-time overlapped that of Socrates by about 9 years. His teachings might have influenced some of Socrates' musings on life.

Siddhartha Gautama (better known as "The Buddha") was born around 563 B.C. and died around 483 B.C. His life preceded that of Socrates by about 13 years, and might have had an even greater influence upon the musings of Socrates.

Aside from a short 9-year period, none of these persons was a contemporary of the others. Thus, it is doubtful (if not impossible) that any of them had met face-to-face, and equally doubtful that any one made any meaningful contribution to any of the others' work.

 

[Levitator]

a. Socrates was a Classical Greek-Athenian philosopher who was born around 470 B.C and died around 399 BC.
b. Jesus of Nazareth (called "Christ" or "Messiah" by some) was born around 4 B.C. and died around 31 A.D.
: : The life of Socrates preceded the life of Jesus by about 395 years. Unless an angel of the Lord inspired Socrates (for which there is no evidence), Jesus could not have contributed to the musings of Socrates.

Gong Fu-Tsu ("Confucius") was a Chinese philosopher and politician who was born about 551 B.C. and died about 479 B.C.). His life-time overlapped that of Socrates by about 9 years. His teachings might have influenced some of Socrates' musings on life.

Siddhartha Gautama (better known as "The Buddha") was born around 563 B.C. and died around 483 B.C. His life preceded that of Socrates by about 13 years, and might have had an even greater influence upon the musings of Socrates.

Aside from a short 9-year period, none of these persons was a contemporary of the others. Thus, it is doubtful (if not impossible) that any of them had met face-to-face, and equally doubtful that any one made any meaningful contribution to any of the others' work.

I just went out of my way to highlight the parallels between Jesus and Socrates, so I think it's apparent that there are parallels. You rightly point out that it's highly unlikely that there was any (earthly) exchange, and that only reinforces my point that it's miraculous or supernatural that the stories mesh. Your assertion that an angel is required is an assumption just as much as your assumption that no angel was involved. Besides, the Bible says that you can't even tell an angel from a man.

"Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body." -- Hebrews 13:1-3

 

[Neri]

And yet one can look for, and find, threads of wisdom that fit together, and complement each other, in the sentiments of both. Time is not an issue to beings of great spiritual insight as they "Channel" truths, not bound by time, that ripple down through the ages. "Timeless Truths" are principles that apply in any Age.

 

[Levitator]

And yet one can look for, and find, threads of wisdom that fit together, and complement each other, in the sentiments of both. Time is not an issue to beings of great spiritual insight as they "Channel" truths, not bound by time, that ripple down through the ages. "Timeless Truths" are principles that apply in any Age.

I like to think the stories are so well-written to complement each other, that I hope it's more than timeless truths, but the work of a conscious and intentional author.

 

[Cryptid]

The truth is the truth no matter who tells it.

 

[Kayla55]

I just went out of my way to highlight the parallels between Jesus and Socrates, so I think it's apparent that there are parallels. You rightly point out that it's highly unlikely that there was any (earthly) exchange, and that only reinforces my point that it's miraculous or supernatural that the stories mesh. Your assertion that an angel is required is an assumption just as much as your assumption that no angel was involved. Besides, the Bible says that you can't even tell an angel from a man.

"Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body." -- Hebrews 13:1-3

Who can say because western philosophy and psychology has always being influenced by eastern teachings, I'm sure there's a lot of teaching but Chinese Confiscius is what recognised by prejudice and lack sovereignty.
So west always acknowledged what suited them and wrote history books written by ruling party (prejudice)
I was never expert on difference between niche and his rival and I do agree with Pyrrhonism but not as German supporter, it was eastern teaching in Tibet if I'm not mistaken.
People are idiots when can't conclude own philosophy for life, but pretenses are what they are. And so some strive for education not for sake of pursuit but to prevent stupid self from showing. Aristotle speaks on courage or lack there of--- cowards. Difference between man of war and man who stands against society

 

[Levitator]

Who can say because western philosophy and psychology has always being influenced by eastern teachings, I'm sure there's a lot of teaching but Chinese Confiscius is what recognised by prejudice and lack sovereignty.
So west always acknowledged what suited them and wrote history books written by ruling party (prejudice)
I was never expert on difference between niche and his rival and I do agree with Pyrrhonism but not as German supporter, it was eastern teaching in Tibet if I'm not mistaken.
People are idiots when can't conclude own philosophy for life, but pretenses are what they are. And so some strive for education not for sake of pursuit but to prevent stupid self from showing. Aristotle speaks on courage or lack there of--- cowards. Difference between man of war and man who stands against society

I'm unfamiliar with most of those references, but I greatly agree that a lot of people are superficial and full of vanity with regard to supposed education.

 

[Kayla55]

I'm unfamiliar with most of those references, but I greatly agree that a lot of people are superficial and full of vanity with regard to supposed education.

Stoicism is a school of Hellenistic philosophy that flourished in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. The Stoics believed that the practice of virtue is enough to achieve eudaimonia: a well-lived life.

I believe that too study up on this can greatly help asd individuals navigate social paths.

 

[Levitator]

Stoicism is a school of Hellenistic philosophy that flourished in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. The Stoics believed that the practice of virtue is enough to achieve eudaimonia: a well-lived life.

I believe that too study up on this can greatly help asd individuals navigate social paths.

It sounds like Socrates was on the elevator up, and the Stoics decided to stay on the ground floor.

 

[Kayla55]

Stoic philosophy warns us about the trap of superficial kindness—acting only to please others without considering virtue and wisdom. The pursuit of Stoic virtues involves courageously facing uncomfortable situations, seeking truth, and acting in line with our principles, regardless of external expectations

there is me at kidies birthday party, all parents having coffee...being too nice, miss sunshine sarcastic, no I can't use her lighter (think she was being serious)
if I was more reserved and calm on not knowing anyone or half of conversation at least I'd have survived.

 

[Levitator]

That's interesting. I believe the word "stoic", as an adjective, is generally taken to refer to disciplined indifference, like resistance to pain or other weakness, for example. I'm sure there's a lot of great thinking to be found in the classical Greek pantheon, but I'm interested in Socrates because of how his story dovetails into spirituality and Christianity. The Greeks were big on logic and reason because it's what they had in front of them, but Socrates was reaching for spirituality as the source of artistic inspiration, and as a pursuit of truth so enlightening that he saw his previous existence as literally two-dimensional.

Stoic philosophy warns us about the trap of superficial kindness—acting only to please others without considering virtue and wisdom. The pursuit of Stoic virtues involves courageously facing uncomfortable situations, seeking truth, and acting in line with our principles, regardless of external expectations

there is me at kidies birthday party, all parents having coffee...being too nice, miss sunshine sarcastic, no I can't use her lighter (think she was being serious)
if I was more reserved and calm on not knowing anyone or half of conversation at least I'd have survived.

 

[Kayla55]

I like to think the stories are so well-written to complement each other, that I hope it's more than timeless truths, but the work of a conscious and intentional author.

Philo of Alexandria wrote accounts about the Essenes in 50 CE and may have based his work on previous (now unknown) accounts. Pliny the Elder was a politically well-connected Roman naturalist and philosopher who wrote about the Essenes in his book Naturalis Historia in 77 CE. While there is some agreement between the three sources, there are also significant divergences in their description of the Essenes. This could suggest that there were multiple sects of Essenes within the community, divergences at times, or that each source was incomplete in their understanding of the Essenes.

Now some people say that essences were from black tribe, and yes they had traveled as far as Egypt. I think African people sing most beautiful gospel music
And essences make more sense than book of Enoch, and Enoch never describes wisdom only fascination for angels, so answers must be from the slaves.

The Essenes were one of several sects of Judaism that emerged in the historical land of Israel, including the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Zealots. The Essenes emerged as a separate sect after the Maccabean revolt of 167 BCE drove out the Greek occupiers and many Hellenized Jews. Following the revolt, the Hasmonean dynasty established an independent kingdom of Israel and took over control of the Temple of Jerusalem. The Hasmoneans combined control of the temple with that of the king. The Essenes were opposed to the combination of these secular and holy duties. Additionally, the kings of Israel were supposed to be descended from David's tribe of Judah, and the priests were supposed to descend from the first high priest under Solomon.

 

[Kayla55]

Lions don't naturally come from Egypt, nor do black man travelers.
Archaeological finds in tip of Africa of gold are true, and black man had once traded in modern world.

I love motivational videos by black people, have helped me when I was in self doubt. They offer a humaness to being human

 

[Kayla55]

I just went out of my way to highlight the parallels between Jesus and Socrates, so I think it's apparent that there are parallels. You rightly point out that it's highly unlikely that there was any (earthly) exchange, and that only reinforces my point that it's miraculous or supernatural that the stories mesh. Your assertion that an angel is required is an assumption just as much as your assumption that no angel was involved. Besides, the Bible says that you can't even tell an angel from a man.

"Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body." -- Hebrews 13:1-3

Connection may be of Catholicism (Christianity at time) was accepted into Holy Roman empire under Constantinople. Most pagan temples converted and became Christian symbols such as Xmas tree.
Christianity was favourable for silencing women, however women didn't stand much chance. Seems not even old women wrinkles and baby scars is enough to stop male sex drive. (Overkill on survival of species) but I mean French women never really had own inclinations to be liberated or else they wouldn't spent so much time invading Indo-Pacific.

Much philosophy from west didn't encompass ideas love and forgiveness such as Christianity, and hence some said Jesus was actually black man.

As for passion of Socrates?
Interesting enough is Koran is much older than Torah or old testament. Now the Torah is never allowed to change not a word (no king James version printed) so this is more historically accurate, and doesn't account for coming of Messiah, yet.
So oldest version of old testament is the Koran. (As far as I know)

 

[Levitator]

Connection may be of Catholicism (Christianity at time) was accepted into Holy Roman empire under Constantinople. Most pagan temples converted and became Christian symbols such as Xmas tree.
Christianity was favourable for silencing women, however women didn't stand much chance. Seems not even old women wrinkles and baby scars is enough to stop male sex drive. (Overkill on survival of species) but I mean French women never really had own inclinations to be liberated or else they wouldn't spent so much time invading Indo-Pacific.

Much philosophy from west didn't encompass ideas love and forgiveness such as Christianity, and hence some said Jesus was actually black man.

As for passion of Socrates?
Interesting enough is Koran is much older than Torah or old testament. Now the Torah is never allowed to change not a word (no king James version printed) so this is more historically accurate, and doesn't account for coming of Messiah, yet.
So oldest version of old testament is the Koran. (As far as I know)

So, what observations are you drawing? I really don't care what race Jesus was. It's said that he was a Jew, so, that to me, means that he was an ethnic peer of his environment, and I think that's important to the story, because we're supposed to understand that it's his own people that lynched him. In turn, it's important because the story is a commentary on human nature, not on any specific group or color. If Jesus had been born among some other group, then it would have still been human nature that crucified him, not a specific race or ethnic group.

You mentioned more modern black culture, like gospel. There was a recent shift in the rhetoric against my own ethnic group, and I got a very startling before/after demonstration of what it is to first be less oppressed, and then suddenly to be more oppressed, and it's a very ugly picture of human nature, and how they stab you in the back with their hammer and nails.