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This highlights the problem as to why some global issues can not even be discussed intelligently as it results in accusation of "isms...". I did not even specify a specific race and it still stirs the pot. UNESCO could call race merely a social construct. That could also be a statement to fit in place with a particular political agenda. Lets go back to the physical differences of ethnicity. If race is not a biological thing, why do people of certain ethnicity become dominate in certain sports? Clearly something about their physiology gave them an advantage to excel in their sport. Their physiology came about due to evolution of their people in their specific region of origin. If you looked across a very wide range of sports (not just the highly popular ones) you would probably find that in each one there is probably some ethnicity that tends to excel the most until all major ethnicities are eventually represented. It is concrete that there are physiological differences. Science, and not even political idealists try to debate that part. For example it is widely and proudly proclaimed that Kenya produces the world's best long distance runners, due to high altitude in their home land among other things. That is a sentiment embraced by main stream media. However is that not then racist to admit that people from Kenya are biologically different somehow? Or is it simply not racist because it is embracing a positive attribute of the people of that region rather than a negative? Physiological differences are one thing, but when suggesting possible mental difference it goes into a world of taboo where many people would rather point fingers and yell "racist" rather than discuss what may (or may not) be real.

Issues like survival and not dying do not account for an IQ spread of 30 points or more from the countries of highest IQ. I think East and South East Asia best reflect this more than any place in the world. They have nations which represent the highest IQ levels in the world. This region is divided up among the very wealthy and very poor, internally within a nation and also when comparing one nation to it's neighbor. This however does not create a great differential in IQ levels, as intelligence is much more biological than circumstantial. The other point being as I mentioned in the previous post. When you remove people from a low IQ nation and put them in a high IQ nation, those people do not join the high IQ. Their offspring will usually also not thrive and will remain well below the intelligence of the host nation, maintaining the approximate intelligence of their area of origin. The United States is a great shining example of this. However I could not see a way to discuss that particular situation on this forum without naming specific races and therefore likely being banned from the forum. I don't even think I can speak about it as a euphemism.

There is a theory that many believe that intelligence came about through environment a people live in. Some people lived in environments where food is plentiful, one just needs to live from one day to the next. Hunt, maybe there is easy local prey, forage some plants and so forth. Day after day without end. Evolution will develop a being as far as it needs to go to thrive in it's environment. Some other peoples found themselves in much harsher environments through migration, or other circumstances of ending up where they are (depending on what one believes in as far as how people ended up in different regions of the world). People in harsher environments would have to think ahead or die. They need to craft warm clothes to survive the cold. They need a strategy to have a food supply when food may be scarce (such as in a cold winter), they can not just live day to day, they need to think to the future and act accordingly. It is not simply survival of the strongest in those environments as it is in other environments, intelligence would play a much more crucial role. This a theory as to the basis of intelligence differential around the world. Its not even a matter of proclaiming what is "superior" or "inferior." Just a matter of fact that there was this much evolutionary pressure to make these specific people survive in this environment. "Superior" and "Inferior" are subjective and a matter of opinion.
To keep the discussion as factual as possible, could you please give sources for these? I think it'd make things easier if we knew where you were basing this. I'm studying to be a scientist (haven't chosen what kind), and in our school we've already spent time reading through research papers relevant to our research topics. I'm a scientist (officially still a student, though apparently you can call yourself a scientist given that you follow the scientific method I think) after all; reading through papers and dissecting them is kind of a thing I'll have to do anyway, so reading through papers relevant to this discussion would be good practice.
 
Now, with regards to "acquiring the gifts of old age," I must still point out that while there's nothing wrong with wanting to die when you want to (that's euthanasia), it can also be argued that the diseases, rot and cancer that comes with unhindered aging is something you'd rather avoid yes?
I have seen more than my share of "rot and cancer" among not only the elderly population but those of tender age. But worse is the rot and cancer of the soul, which inflicts many in this day and age. That is worse. And there is no potion or anything that can fix that. Quality is more important than quantity, in my opinion. And I was not referring to euthanasia although I do agree with the states which allow for assisted suicide when one is terminal and in excruciating pain, no matter what age they are. I believe some of the gifts of old age are the acceptance that one does not live forever, that one's physical condition will deteriorate and that's the order of nature. Also being older for many allows for much pleasure in the simple things of life that most younger ones have not have garnered the patience for. I don't like science interfering and attempting to play the Creator for although I am not a Christian I do believe "To everything there is a season; and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap. Also I believe we do live on after our bodies die but cannot elaborate on that for that is the Great Mystery.
 
I have seen more than my share of "rot and cancer" among not only the elderly population but those of tender age. But worse is the rot and cancer of the soul, which inflicts many in this day and age. That is worse. And there is no potion or anything that can fix that. Quality is more important than quantity, in my opinion. And I was not referring to euthanasia although I do agree with the states which allow for assisted suicide when one is terminal and in excruciating pain, no matter what age they are. I believe some of the gifts of old age are the acceptance that one does not live forever, that one's physical condition will deteriorate and that's the order of nature. Also being older for many allows for much pleasure in the simple things of life that most younger ones have not have garnered the patience for. I don't like science interfering and attempting to play the Creator for although I am not a Christian I do believe "To everything there is a season; and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap. Also I believe we do live on after our bodies die but cannot elaborate on that for that is the Great Mystery.
Under that logic then one would also assume that you're against medicine, as that's also "science interfering," but regardless, while you may prefer to go without any sort of rejuvenation I think that many others would prefer to use it, and I simply hope you wouldn't be against giving people the option to choose. Because regardless of your beliefs or my beliefs, we have little say over the lives of other people.
And about "To everything there is a season; and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap," I believe that what many people might say in counter to that statement is "what about the random suffering that happens for no reason?", but I won't delve into philosophy here (unless you want to).
About "being older for many allows for much pleasure in the simple things of life that most younger ones have not have garnered the patience for," I also don't think you'd be able to take pleasure in simple things when you're in pain because your body has deteriorated so much even when you've lived a perfectly healthy lifestyle (because it will happen eventually).
 
Whats the point of living if when you die you forget you ever lived anyway so its all a waste of time. You may have been married for 70 years. But you wont know that once you are dead.
 
The bible is CRAP!
Now, while I'm of the belief that taking the Bible or just about all religious text about the "hows" and "whys" of the universe literally is something to be definitely avoided, given their insufficiency in explaining everything like they were supposed to (especially when rigorous scientific testing is a thing), I also don't think that automatically disparaging people for their beliefs is really in any way helpful. If we're going to discuss the merits of religion and religious texts then we'll all need to take a step back to calm down and debate the matter rationally.

Whats the point of living if when you die you forget you ever lived anyway so its all a waste of time. You may have been married for 70 years. But you wont know that once you are dead.
What's the point of living? No one can answer that for you; as Jean-Paul Sartre once said: "Humans are radically free." Humans are condemned to forever seek meaning in their lives, as they are not given any, much like most of the universe.
Now you may take that as "right then, time to commit suicide; no bloody way I'm taking all this for any longer, we'll all be dead anyway," or cause chaos like the Joker does in The Dark Night as many nihilists think to do, but many optimistic nihilists (like myself) just go "oh well, let's have fun while it lasts."
 
Whoops, did not realize that it'd get bleeped out. Sorry 'bout the cursing (I think I might be channeling more of Accelerator's personality than I first thought, either that or I just curse a lot most of the time).
 
The bible is CRAP!

I used to think similar, or at least, frustrated that it made neither head nor tail to me, but not anymore.

What is "c*a* is what people attribute the Bible is saying.

Anyway, many scientists who started off believing in evolution, once started on their subject, see clearly that things are designed.

Of course, the end of the day we all have our opinions and for me, I find what you said to be very insulting , since I read the Bible every single night.

I hate the notion of evolution, but would never insult someone using defamatory language. I would ask questions for their belief.
 
I used to think similar, or at least, frustrated that it made neither head nor tail to me, but not anymore.

What is "c*a* is what people attribute the Bible is saying.

Anyway, many scientists who started off believing in evolution, once started on their subject, see clearly that things are designed.

Of course, the end of the day we all have our opinions and for me, I find what you said to be very insulting , since I read the Bible every single night.

I hate the notion of evolution, but would never insult someone using defamatory language. I would ask questions for their belief.
Design can be better explained by evolutionary development, but since you're apparently not comfortable with the idea, I'll not try to argue with you (as you're likely too entrenched to change your mind just like that from some forum online) and just point out that that's basically what's believed in modern science (with a lot of empirical evidence to draw these conclusions from). Indeed there are some things that are just baffling if everything truly is designed, such as the vestigial organs in many species. Scientists don't tend to put God anywhere near their theories (Newton did at some points, though I can't remember where. Where they were didn't answer anything until somebody worked without that assumption).

In any case, I must implore that everyone be courteous.
 
Now, while I'm of the belief that taking the bible or just about all religious text about the "hows" and "whys" of the universe literally is something to be definitely avoided, given their insufficiency in explaining everything like they were supposed to (especially when rigorous scientific testing is a thing), I also don't think that automatically disparaging people for their beliefs is really in any way helpful. If we're going to discuss the merits of religion and religious texts then we'll all need to take a step back to calm down and debate the matter rationally.


What's the point of living? No one can answer that for you; as Jean-Paul Sartre once said: "Humans are radically free." Humans are condemned to forever seek meaning in their lives, as they are not given any, much like most of the universe.
Now you may take that as "right then, time to commit suicide; no bloody way I'm taking all this for any longer, we'll all be dead anyway," or cause chaos like the Joker does in The Dark Night as many nihilists think to do, but many optimistic nihilists (like myself) just go "oh well", let's have fun while it lasts."
Ask the bible & god why it caused the Grenfell tragedy & that little babys death whilst waiting for treatment in America.
 
Note:

The topic of this thread is the concept of BIOLOGICAL immortality,
that is to say, whether it is physically possible for life forms to exist
indefinitely.

Remarks about religious ideas of any type are best left out of this thread.

This is the 'Computers, Science & Technology' area.
Members who wish to discuss religious topics are invited to do so
here>
Politics & Religion
 
One issue is also that the brain has a biological capacity for memory, and unless we come up with a way of installing more, we are going to be "living in the past" whether we want to or not.

Homes for dementia patients do well when they set up the living quarters in a way patients who can't manage new memories can handle. Music from their younger years, environment cues to help them get to common areas, and tricks to keep them from danger areas (placing a black mat in front of the elevator can be interpreted by these brain as a "hole" and keeps them safely away) are all ways of accommodating an elderly person with mental deterioration, but to do this forever seems counterproductive.
 
One issue is also that the brain has a biological capacity for memory, and unless we come up with a way of installing more, we are going to be "living in the past" whether we want to or not.

Homes for dementia patients do well when they set up the living quarters in a way patients who can't manage new memories can handle. Music from their younger years, environment cues to help them get to common areas, and tricks to keep them from danger areas (placing a black mat in front of the elevator can be interpreted by these brain as a "hole" and keeps them safely away) are all ways of accommodating an elderly person with mental deterioration, but to do this forever seems counterproductive.
Well, if I remember correctly one of the methods in the video below involved injecting stem cells into the brains of mice, which rejuvenated the older neurons (this came with a 10% lifespan increase). Now, I'm not sure how this translates in humans, but the fact that it worked in the first place is promising.
Something the video doesn't address is bionics. We have replacement limbs, and there was even a cyborg who could "hear" color (he was colorblind). Now for that last thing to have worked it needs to somehow interface with the brain, something that we'll likely get better at as our understanding of neuroscience increases. Perhaps then we can slowly transition our brains and bodies to mechanical substitutes. This isn't the only possible option, but I think it may be possible.

The Video:
 
Note:

The topic of this thread is the concept of BIOLOGICAL immortality,
that is to say, whether it is physically possible for life forms to exist
indefinitely.

Remarks about religious ideas of any type are best left out of this thread.

This is the 'Computers, Science & Technology' area.
Members who wish to discuss religious topics are invited to do so
here>
Politics & Religion
My apologies, I was only trying to be courteous in replying and entertaining every post.
 
Under that logic then one would also assume that you're against medicine, as that's also "science interfering," but regardless, while you may prefer to go without any sort of rejuvenation I think that many others would prefer to use it, and I simply hope you wouldn't be against giving people the option to choose. Because regardless of your beliefs or my beliefs, we have little say over the lives of other people.
And about "To everything there is a season; and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap," I believe that what many people might say in counter to that statement is "what about the random suffering that happens for no reason?", but I won't delve into philosophy here (unless you want to).
About "being older for many allows for much pleasure in the simple things of life that most younger ones have not have garnered the patience for," I also don't think you'd be able to take pleasure in simple things when you're in pain because your body has deteriorated so much even when you've lived a perfectly healthy lifestyle (because it will happen eventually).
It seems to me, Accelerator, that you are equating old age with suffering and death. Newsflash: Doesn't always occur! My dad is 93 years young and could probably out hike most people; his doc tells him he has a heart of a 60-year-old. Yes, he is slowing down but uses the "downtime" exercising his incredible mind with reading, Scrabble and other activities that stimulate his brain. I am 61 years old and life has never been better; my kids are grown (and doing well), I have a grandson and plenty of time to do what I enjoy. I have never been at a better place in life, and believe me, I've been down some pretty dark roads. As for not wanting people to not have the advantage of this fountain of youth that has yet to be found; of course not, I would take advantage myself for the physical benefits---I'm not totally nuts! But I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime and if it happens in yours most likely it will be only for the rich and powerful who will be living on the moon for the earth will no longer be as it once was if things continue going the way they are going now.
As for "the random suffering that happens for no reason" I, of course, cannot answer but can only say maybe there is a reason. Yes, I grapple with that one too and it seems so unfair and brutal that suffering exists that could be irradicated if only society would put it's priorities straight, id est, stop wars and use all that money and man/woman power to help those in need! But realistically that is not going to happen.
 

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