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Should Aspies be Incarcerated?

The individual broke the law so they . . .

  • Should be treated different because they’re on the spectrum.

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • Should be sentenced without regard to their condition, as guilt was proven and they knew better.

    Votes: 23 59.0%

  • Should be sentenced, but sent to a special facility.

    Votes: 12 30.8%

  • Really don’t matter to me, as I do not care about this sort of thing.

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Rich Allen said:
If they do the crime, they should do the time, whether they're Aspie, NT or an Elephant.

Being on the spectrum should NOT become a "Get out of Jail free" card, like I said, for ANYBODY, if you do the crime, you should do the time IMHO.

Obviously there are some cases where Jail time would do more harm than good, but those are isolated.

Also, if they sent an Aspie to an NT Prison, that person may end up getting bullied by their NT Peers, it's an unavoidable factual fact of life.
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So if my brothers who are on the very lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum with no concept of value or money were taught to commit a crime such as theft or perhaps to carry narcotics, they would have absolutely no understanding that it was wrong because they'd automatically trust the person telling them to do it, in fact they'd even do it for nothing and hand over what-ever was stolen or the narcotics without question, but according to your reply they've done the crime and should do the time? Even someone on the higher functioning end of the spectrum can be especially naive and can be tricked into committing crimes when they don't realise it, often they can be very decent people who just want to do anything to please, on other occasions they can be bullied to commit crime and if caught they're too afraid to report the real criminal to the police because they've been warned what will happen to them if they do.

There has to be exceptions and the police, then if absolutely necessary the criminal justice system must thoroughly investigate to ensure that the autistic person understood they were committing a criminal offence and that there wasn't any 3rd party involved who was pulling the strings. While there are real criminals who will use the autistic card wrongfully in order to be treated leniently, there are also genuine cases where the autistic person should be treated leniently and in some cases not punished at all, in fact in some situations they're not criminals, but victims of abuse and it's totally wrong that they're having to go through the immense stress and anxiety of being arrested and perhaps even being forced to attend court, because in many ways the state is then unfairly abusing them much further.
 
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Why steal in the first place? If you have to steal autism isn't going to save you. What are you going to claim? That being a thief is your special interest?
 
@pjcnet , the tricky part is what should the police do if your brothers tried to bite them? My ASD3 daughter has already bit her teachers on multiple occasions. I would rather that they use minimalist physical [shall we say "discouragement"] than lethal force.
 
Crossbreed said:
@pjcnet , the tricky part is what should the police do if your brothers tried to bite them? My ASD3 daughter has already bit her teachers on multiple occasions. I would rather that they use minimalist physical [shall we say "discouragement"] than lethal force.
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My brother David bites himself, mainly his finger, he growls loudly and has been occasionally known to hit his head during a meltdown, but he never hurts anyone else and my brother Daniel just falls on the floor screaming and whining loudly like he's under attack, but if a person on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum did bite the police which as obviously very possible, the police should be allowed to use reasonable force to protect themselves by restraining if absolutely necessary, but a taser, pepper spray or harsh force definitely wouldn't be appropriate and unless they were seriously hurting themselves it would usually be best to just step back and allow them some space to calm down and then try to contact a guardian, hopefully the person will have emergency contact details on them when they've calmed down if there's no guardian nearby. Some police do however need more training in dealing with special needs situations however and I'd sincerely hope they'd understand that they weren't truly dangerous because officially biting them would still be a type of criminal assault, if they didn't and the person was arrested, then that's where the system could really fail, but it shouldn't take them long to realise that they have special needs after that. If this did happen such an autistic person shouldn't really be punished any more than if a person having an epileptic seizure bit them because in both situations it's not really their fault.

It's a difficult one with teachers because obviously no teacher deserves to be hurt in class by a child, but assuming it's a special school, they should be trained to deal with situations like this in order to minimise the risk of this happening and they should also understand. Unfortunately if a child does keep trying to bite teachers in class then only a special school is really suitable. It is possible to improve the situation over time with the right support, but it's not likely to happen overnight and it's not usually the child's fault. That said there was an occasion when one of my brothers was sent home even from a special school because of having meltdowns many years ago, this is obviously ridiculous because that's one of the reasons why many autistic children are at a special school and they have to go somewhere, anyway my parents fought it successfully. This was back in the 1980s and I hope things have improved these days.
 
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pjcnet said:
If this did happen such an autistic person shouldn't really be punished any more than if a person having an epileptic seizure bit them because in both situations it's not really their fault.
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I'm not thinking of punishment after-the-fact, but rather, repelling an attack in-the-moment. At that moment, an officer only sees an adult attacking them and can't tell the difference between an infantile autie or a willful NT.
 
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Judge said:
Some disturbing articles reflecting estimates of those incarcerated on the spectrum presently behind bars- in both Britain and the United States:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ctrum_disorders_in_an_incarcerated_population

Britain's criminal justice system doesn't know what to do about autism
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Firstly we have to be very careful of statistics because they can be manipulated very cleverly to "prove" what the person or organisation wants them to. For instance, did the statistics and assessments take into account that many prisoners would want to be diagnosed with ASD? I think not and some prisoners may believe that they'll get more sympathy during their stay if they're diagnosed with ASD, while some may be remanded or even convicted with future court appearances where an ASD diagnosis could help them be treated more leniently or perhaps they could be treated more leniently at a parole hearing or afterwards by the probation service, in fact some harden criminals may even be thinking that they could be treated more leniently if they got caught committing future crimes after they're released. A lot more people understand autism better these days and it's very possible that some prisoners could act in order to be diagnosed, I definitely believe it's possible because I knew someone who isn't autistic who is now officially diagnosed and this is very worrying generally.

That said it is still feasible that there is a somewhat higher percentage of autistic people who have been arrested and/or convicted of certain crimes:
  • One controversial crime I saw mentioned is sexual offences, many people here may not like what I'm about to say, but in my opinion this is unfortunately feasible because a higher proportion of autistic people struggle to find sexual partners. Being alone without a sexual partner can put untold strain on some people and a very small proportion may be willing to commit crime to fulfill their desires. Also I have read that a higher proportion of autistic people have more unusual sexual desires, which if true could also feasibly increase this statistic further because less partners are likely to allow such desires willingly. Autistic people on the higher end of the autistic spectrum who have committed sexual offences should still be punished the same however, I am a single man and of course I am sexually attracted to women who I see most days because I'm a human being, but I most certainly would never try to rape any of them because I know it's totally wrong in so many ways and it would be extremely unfair on the victim to say the very least. The only time there could be leniency would be in a situation where body language could have been misunderstood with minor sexual offences, E.g. an autistic person grabbed a women in a sexually inappropriate way because he thought she gave him the signal to say it was okay and the shocked women then made a complaint against him to the police, but if he still continued after the women cried out "no" then there should be no leniency. It is possible for someone on the lower functioning end of the spectrum to commit a minor sexual offence which may or may not be influenced by sexual desire, but in this situation they shouldn't be punished if they have absolutely no understanding that it's wrong. Even though the vast majority of autistic people would still never ever contemplate committing a sexual offence this statistic is still the most worrying of all because of the greater risk of stigma and unfair prejudice from other people.
  • There are certain crimes where an autistic person could be wrapped up in a special interest that they're particularly good at, one particular crime is computer hacking for instance, in this situation however the autistic person should still be punished if they knew what they was doing was illegal and I suspect most autistic hackers would, but choose to do it anyway.
  • The general vulnerability of autistic people could definitely push up these statistics and in some situations this is unfair. For instance there are some grey area crimes that an autistic person may not realise are illegal and in some they could even be influenced or even encouraged by a 3rd party, in that situation it would be fair to be lenient or in some situations not punish them at all, but these situations could still increase these statistics. Autistic people are often more vulnerable to be influenced and taken advantage of by 3rd parties in the first place which makes it more common for them to commit crime when with the wrong people, in some situations the autistic person may realise they're committing a criminal offence, but will do it anyway to please who they may think are their "friends", in this situation the autistic person should still be punished, but in my opinion with some leniency. In other situations the autistic person may not realise they're committing a crime at all, E.g. they may truly believe someone they barely know that they really are delivering a harmless package that they're told never to open, an autistic person shouldn't be punished for being naive in a situation like this, but in some situations they probably will end up wrongfully convicted while the real criminal remains free. A 3rd party may even threaten a vulnerable autistic person to commit a crime, in this situation they're really the victim, but some are most likely still wrongfully convicted.
  • Meltdowns can also increase the statistics where an autistic person could commit a violent act, some of these can be avoided if people understood autism better and if the autistic person is arrested and perhaps then charged, they should be treated with leniency. The majority of autistic people however will not hurt anyone even during a meltdown, especially if they're simply left alone even though they may appear aggressive. Unfortunately some autistic meltdowns are in my opinion wrongfully "controlled" by prescription drugs which in my opinion can cause adverse long term effects.
  • Many people on the higher functioning end of the autistic spectrum have additive personalities which also increases the risk of them becoming addicted to drugs including narcotics, being vulnerable and often naive can also increase these chances. Many autistic people also suffer from anxiety and/or depression which even further increases the chances of them self medicating. Just because they're autistic doesn't stop a drug addict from committing crime to feed their habit which will increase these crime statistics. Like any drug addict there can be room for some leniency, especially if they show a willingness to get better because it is a type of illness, but they still need to punished because even if you're addicted to say heroin, it's still not okay to for instance then burgle someone's house and there has to be reasonable deterrent to help prevent people from committing crime even if they are addicted to drugs.
Prison life should be a punishment, but for many autistic people it's a worse punishment which in some ways is unfair, also even if they've committed a crime they still deserve to be kept safe from physical harm. It's a very difficult situation to address and it's good that it's been identified, although I doubt enough will be done, especially with the lack of resources and overpopulated prisons.

The 2nd link is worrying and I agree that more should be done to ensure that autistic people are treated fairly by the police and the criminal justice system in the UK and in other countries. At least it's been identified, but whether enough will be done is debatable, I suspect not.
 
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When choosing to commit crimes, you run the risk of forfeiting your rights and having little to no control over your life. You are not entitled to, nor can you reasonably expect consideration of your condition. If you are not an individual who would do well in prison, best not to risk it by breaking the law.
 
I agree that you should pay the piper for your misdeeds, however the prison systems I have done some studying on are NOT places for rehabilitation... I watch a lot of prison documentaries and think that someone with a neurological disorder should be sent to a place that actually has a chance to rehabilitate them, rather than further entrenching them in crime, gangs and the thug lifestyle. This goes for people with psychiatric conditions too in my opinion. The problem is that there isn't really any such system that I am aware of.

Prisons in general just send people into a further downward spiral, and kind of like prohibitions, only exacerbate the original issues.
 
Major Tom said:
I agree that you should pay the piper for your misdeeds, however the prison systems I have done some studying on are NOT places for rehabilitation... I watch a lot of prison documentaries and think that someone with a neurological disorder should be sent to a place that actually has a chance to rehabilitate them, rather than further entrenching them in crime, gangs and the thug lifestyle. This goes for people with psychiatric conditions too in my opinion. The problem is that there isn't really any such system that I am aware of.

Prisons in general just send people into a further downward spiral, and kind of like prohibitions, only exacerbate the original issues.
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I dont necessarily disagree. You use the word "should" a lot. It does not appear in my post. If I were to go out today and commit a crime, for which I would eventually be tried and convicted, "is" would determine my fate, not "should".
 
Crossbreed said:
That a poor Theory of Mind blinded you to basic personal boundaries. Adopting the Golden Rule helps with that.

Even the guy who stole subway trains (on a different thread) had a poor Theory of Mind.
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If it was the golden rule involved I would want myself incarcerated. I would be ashamed of myself, take my punishment and learn from it. I am not being cruel or heartless. I just know it is tough out there, and sometimes one bump in the road is enough to stop you from plunging off the cliff.
 
It is one of those situations where I'd feel bad for the person and want the best for them. If the person is detached from reality, put up to the task by someone else or a similiar instance then defending the person with autism is completely justified.
(Lol detached fork reality)
 
pjcnet said:
So if my brothers who are on the very lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum with no concept of value or money were taught to commit a crime such as theft or perhaps to carry narcotics, they would have absolutely no understanding that it was wrong because they'd automatically trust the person telling them to do it, in fact they'd even do it for nothing and hand over what-ever was stolen or the narcotics without question, but according to your reply they've done the crime and should do the time? Even someone on the higher functioning end of the spectrum can be especially naive and can be tricked into committing crimes when they don't realise it, often they can be very decent people who just want to do anything to please, on other occasions they can be bullied to commit crime and if caught they're too afraid to report the real criminal to the police because they've been warned what will happen to them if they do.

There has to be exceptions and the police, then if absolutely necessary the criminal justice system must thoroughly investigate to ensure that the autistic person understood they were committing a criminal offence and that there wasn't any 3rd party involved who was pulling the strings. While there are real criminals who will use the autistic card wrongfully in order to be treated leniently, there are also genuine cases where the autistic person should be treated leniently and in some cases not punished at all, in fact in some situations they're not criminals, but victims of abuse and it's totally wrong that they're having to go through the immense stress and anxiety of being arrested and perhaps even being forced to attend court, because in many ways the state is then unfairly abusing them much further.
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Well that's different innit? Their circumstances would be taken into consideration by the Judge passing sentence, and they'd possibly be sent to a "Special" facility for rehabilitation.
 
One could argue that aspies are naturally detached from society and susceptable to bad influences that neurotypicals can differenciate from. A facility should be carefully considered first if it is an option if the judge deems so. It is sad that this idea could easily be exploited.
 
nowwhat said:
I dont necessarily disagree. You use the word "should" a lot. It does not appear in my post. If I were to go out today and commit a crime, for which I would eventually be tried and convicted, "is" would determine my fate, not "should".
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Saying should twice is a lot??? And you asked for my opinion, hence using the word...
 
Major Tom said:
The problem is that there isn't really any such system that I am aware of.
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Such systems mostly exist in traditional societies, or as theories and pilot projects.

The most promising I am aware of is restorative justice, woven into alternative sentencing programs that already exist.
 
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