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Schadenfreude
- Thread starter Metalhead
- Start date
Kayla55
Well-Known Member
Cassandra65
When one teaches, two learn
How do you know what's a lie? What happened to freedom of speech? Which opinions do you believe are arrestable offenses?
So-called sovereign citizens are not arrested for their speech. They are arrested because they break the law which they think they should be immune to.
The most ridiculous cases of that lot are the ones who’ll say they don’t recognize the law but when they are getting arrested for committing a crime, they’ll start shouting that they’ll sue whoever is arresting them. It goes to show how ignorant they are and how fragile their egos are.
Exactly.
Not to mention that in some instances such presentations later mentioned that the persons arrested for such violations also were driving on suspended licenses, apart from the reasons for which they were stopped in the first place. Yet another serious violation of the law.
Though it does also bring up another basic consideration of law. That the more you say to a law enforcement officer, the more likely they will use it to establish a case against a suspect. That "free speech" amounts to a double-edged sword when stopped by the police.
That your best bet is to invoke your Fifth Amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination and say nothing more. Knowing that invoking your Constitutional rights alone cannot be used against you.
The same can be said if you politely say, "I do not consent to any search of my vehicle". Effectively invoking your Fourth Amendment rights as well. Critical considerations citizens have that work more in their favor given recent Supreme Court decisions.
It also helps to understand how most any police officer is trained to assess both "reasonable suspicion" as well as "probable cause" as to whether you are arrested or simply let go.
"Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard that allows police to stop and briefly detain an individual if they have specific, articulable facts suggesting that the person may be involved in criminal activity. This standard is lower than probable cause and is based on the totality of circumstances surrounding the situation."
In essence any notion that you can sidestep all of this as a "sovereign citizen" is nonsense. To understand how much law enforcement is relying on the public's ignorance to exploit them when they can properly interpret a suspect's responses to go beyond reasonable suspicion.
Watching such presentations may well amount to Schadenfreude, however they may also educate their audience sufficiently to avoid such public humiliation as well.
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arithmetic
Active Member
It still looks like a joke to me; I can hardly believe that people (a neurologist I know!) take it seriously.
Wooh!
No joke. Stupidity on steroids.
"The sovereign citizen movement is a loose group of anti-government activists, conspiracy theorists, vexatious litigants, tax protesters and financial scammers found mainly in English-speaking common law countries—the United States, Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and New Zealand. Sovereign citizens have a pseudolegal belief system based on misinterpretations of common law, and claim not to be subject to any government statutes unless they consent to them. The movement appeared in the U.S. in the early 1970s and has since expanded to other countries; the similar freeman on the land movement emerged during the 2000s in Canada before spreading to other Commonwealth countries."
Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia
Might make for a lively discussion of who is more likely to run into extremely disturbed people?
Mental health professionals or police officers?
Cassandra65
When one teaches, two learn
What laws are people breaking? I'm in Aus, I don't know these 'sovereign people', but I do believe in the freedoms and rights laid down in the Magna Carta
Sadly, police officers.
We have a famous "Aboriginal Sovereign Citizen" here in Australia.No joke. Stupidity on steroids.
"The sovereign citizen movement is a loose group of anti-government activists, conspiracy theorists, vexatious litigants, tax protesters and financial scammers found mainly in English-speaking common law countries—the United States, Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and New Zealand. Sovereign citizens have a pseudolegal belief system based on misinterpretations of common law, and claim not to be subject to any government statutes unless they consent to them. The movement appeared in the U.S. in the early 1970s and has since expanded to other countries; the similar freeman on the land movement emerged during the 2000s in Canada before spreading to other Commonwealth countries."
Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia
I can't recall his name, however.
Perhaps he isn't as famous as I thought.
Perhaps he isn't as famous as I thought.
See @Judge's post #31 above. They break any law they want to break. They think they are above the law.
OK, I just watched what is probably one of the most embarrassing reasons for a guy to get arrested. His credit card got turned down for payment at a strip club after he had several lap dances. He had no other way of paying right then and there, so the cops took him away.
Our right of free speech isn't particularly relevant in this situation, but rather our Fifth Amendment pertaining to self-incrimination and our Fourth Amendment, pertaining to search and seizure.
Even more complicated can be the issue of our Second Amendment rights. Whether or not one legally possesses a firearm on their person or within their vehicle. Where so many seemingly innocent questions on the part of law enforcement can develop into more serious charges, fines and even possible imprisonment.
Issues revolving around concealed carry are legally fluid at the moment, given the Supreme Court has made some dramatic decisions that have certain state governments seem bent on circumventing or simply not complying. Making it potentially precarious to practice concealed carry or store a firearm anywhere within your vehicle. Even for the most law-abiding citizens.
Sovereign citizens however, apparently seem ignorant of such actual rights of American citizens, deviating into the folklore of a doctrine that doesn't exist, as opposed to being aware of the first ten amendments of our Constitution, better known as the Bill of Rights.
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