questions on teacher and student relationship

[harrietjansson]

My understanding is this: many people with an ASD diagnosis have difficulties with organizing and self-monitoring. This is true but I am actually not sure if this is true for everyone.
My understanding is that it is very important for teachers to be aware of this and that teachers often don't help us enough with organizing and self-monitoring (and reflection).

My questions are:
Would this be an issue that is specific to ASD (and perhaps ADHD) or do even neurotypical need more help with this from teachers?
How can one get more help with this? Do we need another way of getting feedback?
I have heard that instant feedback is important for us but also that we need more time to reflect upon one's experience with a teacher (more difficult to do in a group setting I suppose).
I find that most teachers don't really meet the student where she or he is. Sometimes this can even be because of the student not allowing the teacher to do so (so true in my case).
What do you say who studied with teachers and suceeded in learning what you tried to learn?

What has worked for you? Why did you succed and actually became good at the thing you studied? I am only looking for practical answers and not any ranting.

 

[Aspychata]

l remember in college feeling overwhelmed with feelings of can l complete this project. So now looking back, l wish l had understood it was anxiety and had l known this - l would have monitered myself more closely instead of running away with anxiety. For organization, l procrastinated with anxiety and fear of upcoming due dates. Now the schools are a lot more hands on and almost overstep the line in guiding students and helping them organize. Truly think if you ask for help, you will receive due to the panademic, schools are struggling to keep students enrolled because the job market is no longer robust.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

My understanding is this: many people with an ASD diagnosis have difficulties with organizing and self-monitoring. This is true but I am actually not sure if this is true for everyone.
My understanding is that it is very important for teachers to be aware of this and that teachers often don't help us enough with organizing and self-monitoring (and reflection).

My questions are:
Would this be an issue that is specific to ASD (and perhaps ADHD) or do even neurotypical need more help with this from teachers?
How can one get more help with this? Do we need another way of getting feedback?
I have heard that instant feedback is important for us but also that we need more time to reflect upon one's experience with a teacher (more difficult to do in a group setting I suppose).
I find that most teachers don't really meet the student where she or he is. Sometimes this can even be because of the student not allowing the teacher to do so (so true in my case).
What do you say who studied with teachers and suceeded in learning what you tried to learn?

What has worked for you? Why did you succed and actually became good at the thing you studied? I am only looking for practical answers and not any ranting.

I will attempt these questions from the perspective of one with Asperger's and as an instructor, myself.

1. I have only had a few students that I have known to be "on the spectrum", but yes, most of my so-called "neurotypical" students are often in need of organizing and self-monitoring. It is a constant,...sometimes there are different issues and my students with autism,...but it seems, most need help. What I have found helpful, as of late, is on the first day of class, during introductions, I tell them that I have "a mild form of autism called Asperger's Condition" and that it is not as uncommon as one may think, and that perhaps one of you in this class may also have this condition. As such, I do understand that how we think and do things may seem odd to others, but it works just fine. If any student is in "the same boat" as myself, we can talk privately and sort things out.

2. Instant feedback is helpful. My students get their dose of Aspie honesty whether they want it or not. I am not a "I will talk to them later" kind of instructor. I will use some humor and a relaxed attitude,...but also say it in a way to let them know I am serious, as well.

3. As far as introducing new material for my students,...I get right to the first principles,...the simplest concepts,...then build upon them. Too many instructors try to "show off" what they know by throwing too much information at students at the beginning,...and you can see students "shut down",...yawning, minds wandering,...might as well stop right there,...you're done, and no sense in trudging along because you've lost the audience. As a student myself, back in the day, I had a lot of frustration with these professors,...a lot of knowledge,...didn't know how to teach. Whereas, I tend to get to the basics of how to do something, then let the questions and supporting information follow.

4. As an instructor, you cannot say, "Do you have any questions?",....9x out of 10,...there won't be because they don't know enough about the material to even know what to ask. What I have learned is to randomly picking students and asking them basic questions about the material,...then you get a sense of what kind of instructor you are. If they don't have the answers,...you didn't do much teaching. In this case, I tend to see it as MY fault.

 

[harrietjansson]

I will attempt these questions from the perspective of one with Asperger's and as an instructor, myself.

2. Instant feedback is helpful. My students get their dose of Aspie honesty whether they want it or not. I am not a "I will talk to them later" kind of instructor. I will use some humor and a relaxed attitude,...but also say it in a way to let them know I am serious, as well.

3. As far as introducing new material for my students,...I get right to the first principles,...the simplest concepts,...then build upon them. Too many instructors try to "show off" what they know by throwing too much information at students at the beginning,...and you can see students "shut down",...yawning, minds wandering,...might as well stop right there,...you're done, and no sense in trudging along because you've lost the audience. As a student myself, back in the day, I had a lot of frustration with these professors,...a lot of knowledge,...didn't know how to teach. Whereas, I tend to get to the basics of how to do something, then let the questions and supporting information follow.

4. As an instructor, you cannot say, "Do you have any questions?",....9x out of 10,...there won't be because they don't know enough about the material to even know what to ask. What I have learned is to randomly picking students and asking them basic questions about the material,...then you get a sense of what kind of instructor you are. If they don't have the answers,...you didn't do much teaching. In this case, I tend to see it as MY fault.

Questions:
In 2 you said that many teachers "will talk to them later". What does that refer to?
In 3 you said that many professors don't know how to teach. My understanding is that even parents sometimes can teach their children. I mean, if parents sometimes can teach their children then why is it that many professors suck at it?
3. I remember when I was trying to work in a grocery store. They told me to ask when I did not understand something. First of all, how was I to understand whether I needed help or not? Secondly, sometimes when I actually did ask they acted as if I shouldn't have asked anything at all. I stopped asking question but was told that I did things the wrong way. What can you say about this?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Questions:
In 2 you said that many teachers "will talk to them later". What does that refer to?
In 3 you said that many professors don't know how to teach. My understanding is that even parents sometimes can teach their children. I mean, if parents sometimes can teach their children then why is it that many professors suck at it?
3. I remember when I was trying to work in a grocery store. They told me to ask when I did not understand something. First of all, how was I to understand whether I needed help or not? Secondly, sometimes when I actually did ask they acted as if I shouldn't have asked anything at all. I stopped asking question but was told that I did things the wrong way. What can you say about this?

1. Many teachers will be under some pressure to get through their curriculum within a certain timeline. Often this is with the mindset that they must get through a significant amount of material,...as much as they can. Personally, I do not feel this is the proper way to do things,...but I digress here. What often happens under these situations is that the instructors put themselves under a significant amount of workload, and with that, less time for productive, meaningful, office hours for students,...and this carries over into the classroom time where they would rather not pause the flow of information to deal with student questions and other issues,..."Come talk to me after class."

2. Having knowledge is one thing,...being able to teach it is quite another. Everyone has a way of learning that works best for them,...some combination of verbal, visual, and hands-on,...and what percentage of each will vary from person to person. Being able to recognize these variables is important. Many professors do not have teaching degrees,...they have doctorates. Often the best teachers are found at the primary schools, high schools, and community college level. Once you get into the university level, it can be "hit and miss" with instructors. At major universities, some doctorate-level instructors are there primarily to do their own research, do not have actual teaching degrees,...but are obligated to do some teaching. In other words, it's something they have to do as part of their contract, but they would rather not do it, and frankly, may not be qualified to teach even though they may have a vast knowledge of the material. Personally, I am of the mindset that one should be able to explain very complex things to a child and have them understand,...if not, then you probably don't know the material as well as you thought you did, or two, you don't know how to teach. When my children were 8-12 years old, I would have them review my university-level lectures,...if they understood the material,...I knew I was ready to teach it to my adult students.

Parents, as instructors, can be "hit and miss" as well. One can make the case that a parent knows their child and how best they learn. On the other hand, this does not make the parent a good instructor. Sometimes these two, independent factors can come together and home schooling can be productive, even accelerated,...sometimes these two factors do not intersect and the home schooled child falls behind in several metrics.

3. What you describe here is a common scenario,...especially within the workplace. New employee orientations and training can be under some degree of timeline pressure, as workplace training is "non productive" time and costs the employer money,...and two,...again, knowing the material and being able to teach it effectively are two different things. The most common mistake that nearly everyone does as an instructor,..."Do you have any questions." It sounds like a responsible, well-meaning gesture,...but in practice,...the student or new employee might not fully grasp the material yet to know what to ask, so the typical response is "No" or they remain silent. The end result is that the material is not learned. As an instructor or employee preceptor, you have to start firing follow-up questions right away, to gauge whether or not the student or new employee understands,...sort that out before plowing ahead and trying to cram more information into their brains. 5-10 minutes of instruction, 5-10 minutes of questions,...back and forth,...perhaps re-explaining the material in different ways (verbal, visual, hands-on, etc.) confirming that the new information was incorporated,...then move ahead. This technique is not often taught,...the more common thing is to monologue, pushing through a significant amount of material,...and then say,..."Any questions?",...a technique fraught with failure. Personally, I have to remind myself of the mantra, "Assume nothing was taught.",...confirm your teaching with immediate questions and feedback,...not some test a week or two in the future,...or worse, a workplace incident where someone gets hurt and/or it costs the company money.

 

[harrietjansson]

What you describe here is a common scenario,...especially within the workplace. New employee orientations and training can be under some degree of timeline pressure, as workplace training is "non productive" time and costs the employer money,...and two,...again, knowing the material and being able to teach it effectively are two different things.

I've also experienced this when taking a dance course. One of the teachers told me that we had to learn many dances in a short amount of time. And my thought was: "perhaps that was only course for people who already had a lot of previous experience dancing?".
I thought it was a beginner's course as they called it that. How much previous experience and skills do you need for a beginner's course?

Parents, as instructors, can be "hit and miss" as well. One can make the case that a parent knows their child and how best they learn. On the other hand, this does not make the parent a good instructor. Sometimes these two, independent factors can come together and home schooling can be productive, even accelerated,...sometimes these two factors do not intersect and the home schooled child falls behind in several metrics.

many people learn a first language. They even become good at it. My view is that people learn when they are allowed to focus on the fundamentals. Kids don't have the best learning strategies but they are allowed to focus on the fundamentals. Sure many have problems with language and need professional help later in life but at least they learned a language.
Why don't we use this method when learning music or dancing? I guess some parents help the kids learn dance or music like they learned their first language. My parents never really used this method. Neither did any of my music teachers do. Taking singing lessons never really helped me become better and listening and hearing the notes. They never focused on the fundamentals of singing and using the voice. It's like singing or dancing is something that one should just be able to do without any training. At a singing lessons most of the teacher hide behind the piano and just asked me to sing and breath. Just singing doesn't help me at all. What we need is to learn how to feel and hear what we sing. I think that many teachers give to students too complex tasks.
Why would this be?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

1. How much previous experience and skills do you need for a beginner's course?
2. My view is that people learn when they are allowed to focus on the fundamentals.
3. I think that many teachers give to students too complex tasks.
Why would this be?

1. It depends upon what is considered a beginner's course. Is the course specifically designed for someone who has never had exposure to the material? Is the course designed for someone who is a novice, without any formal training? Both of these could be considered "beginners" courses. The difference between the two may be significant. With some university entrance exams we try to tease this information out so that we can place students in the appropriate level courses,...Math 100 vs Math 150,...both would be considered "entry-level" mathematics courses,...but Math 150 may be a higher level algebra/trigonometry course, and Math 100 might be a pre-algebra course. Your example of singing, playing an instrument, dance, acting, art, etc...this is very hard to objectively measure on a test,...and as such, what one considers "beginner" can get a bit nebulous. I think it is helpful, when reading course descriptions, to obtain this sort of information. Is this course designed as an introduction,...or is this for someone with some level of experience? Again, it can be a bit confusing,...so, I always would consider discussing it with a counselor or the instructor prior to taking the course.

2. Very true. Get down to the simplest concept first,...then build upon that.

3. This gets back to our prior discussion about being a good teacher, understanding your student, and providing a good course description,...allowing the student to sign up for the appropriate course for them. As far as complexity of tasks,...if there is an assumption upon the instructor that the student should know the basics and then simply take off from there,...this can be difficult for the student. If you took Math 100 in the Fall of 2020, but then take Math 150 in the Spring of 2022,...that time gap may be enough that you've forgotten much of the Math 100 material. However, that instructor for Math 150 is just going to design that course as if you already know all the Math 100 material,...and not review it. You are going to struggle a bit and have to take extra time to review on your own.