Picking job references

[ShaylaTheRoo]

So on Monday, I have an interview with an Apple recruiter for a telecommute IT support position. I'm super excited, as I really like Apple products, and have been trying to study up on iOS app development, not to mention I've really wanted to get a telecommute job that is location independent (my husband graduates his Forensics program in May, and we'll likely have to relocate for his job). The pay is less than I'm making now (by a cringe-worthy amount), but I can ditch having my own car if I'm working from home full time.

They sent me this nice email to help me prepare for the interview, including instructions telling me to complete this new portion of the online application. Part of this new portion of the application is asking for professional references. I always feel weird about this, because I'm never sure who to use. I know my current (pseudo former - according to HR he's my manager still, but that's only until some paperwork gets finalized and he's officially in a different group) manager likes me and thinks I do good work, so he's a definite one to include. But, I need two more.

For a second reference, I'd been thinking I'd use a local business owner I've done volunteer work for/with - I basically managed to coordinate an entire huge charity event for the Child's Play organization to be held in his store, with about a month's notice before the event (needed to coincide with a Magic tournament). I also was a one-woman Alzheimer's research bake sale, planning a menu and baking somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 cupcakes - all made from scratch the day before the bake sale, including handmade frosting. Basically, I move mountains to do volunteer work at this man's store, and I know he'd hire me in a heartbeat if he could afford it, ha ha.

My third reference is a hard one to figure out. I'd like to use a former coworker (he's since gotten a different job), since we worked closely together and I know he'd say good things.

I worry about the second and third references, though, since they weren't my actual managers or anything, just a guy that I do volunteer work for and a coworker. I'd use more managers, but my past two are very iffy cases. I don't have contact info for one (she got a new and amazing job right after I left, before I could get her personal contact info). I'd use someone else at the company, but I left because I'd been being bullied by the other employees, including my boss's boss. You can see the predicament, as I really just want to pretend I never worked there, even though I did some good work.

The other has been demoted and won't be with the company anymore as of May 1st, so I don't think I'd really like to have a new employer contacting him because of all this drama. It might not reflect particularly well on me, or he might not be in the best of mentalities to be saying nice things about his former employees.

During college I worked as a teacher's assistant and am in contact with a few students still - do you think one of them might be more relevant?

Basically, TL;DR, I'm having some trouble picking who to use as my references on a job application. Anyone have some advice on this? I have a few days to finish the application, but I'd like to stop worrying about it before I start studying the other interview materials Apple sent.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

Hi, ShaylaTheRoo.

I'm seeing this late, hope some thoughts can still help. You may have already thought of these.

Professional reference doesn't have to be all management, or even from all different places.

Have you called the former coworker to ask how he feels? And do you trust his (her?) professionalism? I've known a number of people whose dislike of their employer is in a different "bucket" than how they feel about the work of a specific person. That skill is common to almost every manager at any level I've ever met.

--A4H

 

[Tia Maria]

".... my current (pseudo former - according to HR he's my manager still, but that's only until some paperwork gets finalized and he's officially in a different group) manager likes me and thinks I do good work, so he's a definite one to include. But, I need two more.

For a second reference, I'd been thinking I'd use a local business owner I've done volunteer work for/with - I basically managed to coordinate an entire huge charity event for the Child's Play organization to be held in his store, with about a month's notice before the event (needed to coincide with a Magic tournament). I also was a one-woman Alzheimer's research bake sale, planning a menu and baking somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 cupcakes - all made from scratch the day before the bake sale, including handmade frosting. Basically, I move mountains to do volunteer work at this man's store, and I know he'd hire me in a heartbeat if he could afford it, ha ha.

My third reference is a hard one to figure out. I'd like to use a former coworker (he's since gotten a different job), since we worked closely together and I know he'd say good things.

I worry about the second and third references, though, since they weren't my actual managers or anything, just a guy that I do volunteer work for and a coworker. I'd use more managers, but my past two are very iffy cases. I don't have contact info for one (she got a new and amazing job right after I left, before I could get her personal contact info). I'd use someone else at the company, but I left because I'd been being bullied by the other employees, including my boss's boss. You can see the predicament, as I really just want to pretend I never worked there, even though I did some good work.

The other has been demoted and won't be with the company anymore as of May 1st, so I don't think I'd really like to have a new employer contacting him because of all this drama. It might not reflect particularly well on me, or he might not be in the best of mentalities to be saying nice things about his former employees.

During college I worked as a teacher's assistant and am in contact with a few students still - do you think one of them might be more relevant?

ShaylaTheRoo, you may have submitted your references already. If so, don't worry or second guess your choices. I'm sure whoever you included will be fine. For future reference, here's my recommendation for a similar job:

I'm sure you know this already, but touch base with each of your references PRIOR to providing their name as a reference. Let them know you'd like to use them as a professional reference & ask them if that would be okay. Assuming they say yes, you're also providing them with a 'heads up' to expect the call. If you have successfully used a person as a reference previously & can't get in touch with them in time, go ahead & include their name but send them an email or leave a voice mail letting them know you provided their name as a reference & are hoping that is okay. (FYI that all this is just professional courtesy.)

You don't need all managers or senior level references, but you do need at least one.

#1 Your current/former manager - PERFECT, assuming it's okay that this person who works at your current employer won't mind that you are looking for a job elsewhere. Include the term "in confidence" with their name to remind the recruiter to be discreet when they contact this person (or anyone at your current place of employment).

#2 Your former co-worker who currently works at a different company & would definitely have good things to say about you - PERFECT.

# 3 A local business owner for whom you've done volunteer charity work. - He's fine to use, OR

You could call (versus email in this situation) your former manager at a prior job (the one who was demoted & leaving as of May 1) & see how he responds to your request to provide you with a job reference. If he is very negative & down, I would not submit his name but he will never know one way or the other (I.e.; whether you actually used him as a reference or not) because not every interview may proceed to the reference checking stage. If you do speak with him you can also take the opportunity to ask him how he is doing & offer him any support or assistance he may need from you after May 1. He will probably appreciate that very much.

* I would not ever use the students unless you were specifically applying for a teaching or training type position.

For follow up AFTER this interview: IF you feel confident that the other former manager - the woman who went on to an even better job - would also provide you with a good reference but you just lost contact with her, do some research to track down her contact information at her new employer. If you think it's appropriate, send her a brief email with your contact information just to say hello & keep in touch. Then she'll be back in your Rolodex for the next time you need a professional reference.

That's my input, but again, if you have already submitted references & they happen to differ from above, I would NOT worry about it at all & just focus on preparing for your interview.

GOOD LUCK.

PS - Don't forget to send your references a short thank-you email AFTER your interview; & of course send everyone you meet with at Apple a thank-you email within a day or two following the interview. (I'd send the Apple thank-you's out first, & then the thanks to your references.) Remember to ask each person at Apple for their business card as you're leaving. If you forget, you can always call an admin at the company afterwards & get any email addresses, correct name spellings & job titles that you need.

You probably knew all this already, but sometimes a reminder is helpful when a person under stress.