NT asking coparent for help

[Chard]

Hi- after dating someone who is autistic, I realized that my ex-husband likely is as well.

We try and get along decently because of kids, and end up spending holidays together. Which involves doing tasks together- and me asking him to help.

When I was first with him, I was uber independent and rarely asked for help.

When I did, it was almost always rebuffed.

Now I’m good at asking for help, and I have noticed the same thing.

There is an automatic default mode of objection to it that is startling to me now that asking help is in my vocabulary. Most people help as a default. He does not.

It seems to me that his default is to continue going on the path he was on, whether or not it would be a big thing to vary, and whether or not he has realized that this was his plans, and input that work needs to be done that really needs to come from him won’t change this - because habit is stronger.

Prime example— when my son was an infant, I would settle him to sleep. He would not go to sleep in the light. At my mom’s house, there was some kind of situation where I was settling him in semi-darkness and he would wake and rewake for almost an hour because of the light.

I asked my ex if he would, tomorrow, turn the light off.

He basically refused and started brainstorming ways the light could be off without him changing his routine- lobbying hard to go out and spend an hour or two of our vacation and $40 or so buying a timer— so he did not have to shut a door or turn off a light.

It was so normal with us I didn’t notice, until my mom got exhasperated we were taking 40 minutes of her time and emotional energy space hashing out this complex solution to a simple action (turn off the light as I asked for.)

The ratio of simple asks to actual adjustment is about 8 to 1.

He recognized he did this once, and stopped, for the length of a shared vacation, and it was lovely. Easy on both of us.

But I think generally, his internal defense of his pre-imagined routine is too strong to actually adjust.

He can help contribute to family life by doing dishes, because it is what he does. But should I ask him to take a plate that I’m about to drop, or handle a task that would give me allergies or change his routine for the benefit of the kids— no go. Most times, someone else’s suffering is just not enough stimulus to cause the “help” thing to kick in.

Ironically, he sees himself as helpful. And he can be. But he can also shove me out of the way as I’m cleaning a table, because that was the piece of help *he* had planned to do. He needs extreme handholding to do things outside dishes, too, so if I ask him to help lay the table, each action will be accompanied by a question, most of which can be answered by looking, like “does this drawer have napkins in it”? And then it gets ridiculous on both sides- I’m looking ridiculous by refusing HIM help — but as a friend puts it, he’s offloading thinking on to me, and there’s a limit to my patience with that.

I ask him to do the things he can do without input, and he’s started to sometimes do that without me asking for that, so it is easier than it was.

Any help in understanding him- or navigating this in a way that’s good for both of us?

 

[Tom]

Really good description. Might help a few Aspies understand their behavior more if they could read it.

As far as your Ex... I find knowing things in advance sometimes can help. Even if I am noncommittal at first, my head in time will adjust and add the thing to the 'schedule'.

 

[Pats]

When I used to work, I would tell people often to let me know if they need me to help them with something because I would not just notice they need help. A few times that back fired and I ended up doing most their job along with my own. But, thing is, I know things are not always obvious to me.
At home, it feels different. I would feel irked when asked to help someone with something - usually because of my own embarrassment for not picking up on the need or not having started doing it myself before being asked. Always depends on what I'm doing and circumstances, too. When someone asks me to do something and they knew yesterday that they would need me to do it - it really aggravates me that they didn't mention it before. Or if it's something they should have thought of and already done. I wonder why they didn't plan ahead, Like why didn't they change the other babies diaper BEFORE starting to feed this one. Or why didn't they move the table over before they had their hands full?
I don't plan out every minute of my day, but I have an idea what I'm going to be doing and it upsets me when that course is altered in any way.
I do try to comply - but inside I'm kind of seething.
Oh, let me add - the reason I get so frustrated when someone else has poor planning at doing tasks is not fair to the other person, I know. I pre-plan everything to where I never need to ask for help, so it's hard for me to understand NOT doing that.

 

[the_tortoise]

so if I ask him to help lay the table, each action will be accompanied by a question, most of which can be answered by looking, like “does this drawer have napkins in it”? And then it gets ridiculous on both sides- I’m looking ridiculous by refusing HIM help —but as a friend puts it, he’s offloading thinking on to me, and there’s a limit to my patience with that.

I don't know why this example is a big deal. It seems normal and polite to me, if he doesn't live in your house, to ask you where things are instead of just rummaging around for things. If he's asking how you want him to lay out the napkins or which napkins to use, this also strikes me as potentially just him trying to be respectful of how you want things done.

Another thing to keep in mind is that autistic people tend to be very detail oriented (I, at least, am very detail oriented). He may just need a lot of specific, concrete information to understand what you want. Also (while this is not your problem to fix, but his problem to fix: ) he may have a lot of anxiety over not doing things properly, if he has been frequently told off by others for just doing things the way he would do them because his way tends to be different to the norm.

Another thought is he may have information processing (sequencing/organizational) difficulties and quite literally needs that kind of help (as opposed to just wanting it, but not needing it) or else he will get stuck and be unable to finish the task. I don't know, since I'm not him -- it's just a thought.

Maybe try to find ways for him to "offload thinking" in a way that doesn't burden you -- like get him to write the contents of drawers on the front of them. Or to write a list of all the steps involved in a task so he can refer to it as he goes instead -- then he could use the list as a prompt, instead of relying on you to prompt him.

Maybe instead of asking him to "lay out the napkins", for example, ask him to "go find the napkins and put them on the table". This makes it clear that part of the task is to look for whatever he needs on his own (sets out more steps of the task so he doesn't get tripped up over not knowing where the napkins are; makes it clear he is free to rummage through the drawers -- has your permission, doesn't need to ask you; makes it clear that you don't intend to help him find things).

Please don't hold it against him if he doesn't see when you need help -- if he wants to help and is willing when asked, that may be the best he can do.

 

[Chard]

I definately see the need to give warning, and can do that as much as possible. I guess from a NT perspective, it’s more work because if you don’t, there’s a chance that the other will help on their own, which feels good, and then both you and they have to remember, and you in effect, have to ask twice— and deal with grumbling, renegotiating. And my ex - and boyfriend— often didn’t remember anyways. So my default is to ask at the time.

But I can see how the asked earlier thing might help, and will try and be fine with doing that.

The asking for napkins isn’t such a big thing in itself. It’s that I’m trying to cook and have too many things; I think I have outsourced a set of decisions and actions, my ex has taken napkins from that drawer before tons of times and really knows where they are — I can label something and he will still ask— and honestly, it appears he really just does not want to do the effort of silently doing a task with no support.

I default to asking him to skip something he thinks he can’t do or check himself, and he is able to do it, so it really does feel like offloading thinking.

He wants to be able to check in with me at every step. Which would be okay if I wasn’r also focused on keeping six other balls in the air in cooking... The reason I ask for help is always because I am overwhelmed and actually need someone to take on something without me supervising.

I usually give him the last task needed because I can do 6 in the time it takes him to do one.

I’m not really holding it against him- I get that he can’t see need- but trying to work out how not to be frustrated and fair to him and treat him well- while treating my needs as important too.

It feels odd to refuse to give details he needs— but I also know he CAN do it if I’m not around, and he’ll feel good about it if he can learn to just do it.

I assume he has executive function problems- so do I; his just happen to be stronger, and he doesn’t seem to own or work on them.

 

[Chard]

I like the ask and find idea. I think I need to see if I can ask so doing without asking questions is implied.

Maybe, “could you take over being in charge of x?”

 

[Tom]

Multitasking is not usually an Aspie or for that matter typical male strength. Coordinating with someone who is multitasking can be just as difficult/intimidating. If the issue is his checking in with you for each step I would settle for that and his helping at all. There is no victory only small to moderate modifying and compromise.

 

[Chard]

I’m also laughing, because with the baby example— I realized, well, I always know the part around the end of cooking when you try and get everything hot together at once is difficult— why the heck DIDN’T I anticipate that?

Think I may make setting the table for the next meal part of clearing it with my kids and I (and x when he is here) and see why happens..

 

[Chard]

I have my own issues and get non-verbal or unable to use the right words when overwhelmed— I think this is an important part of why things don’t work. It is easier to do myself than to have to verbally communicate when stressed/multitasking— so that is my default— but sometimes I just cannot do it all on my own.

 

[Chard]

So asking me to verbally talk things through for him when I struggle with stringing words together right is a recipe for disaster.

 

[TempeFan]

So asking me to verbally talk things through for him when I struggle with stringing words together right is a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for asking about this. I can definitely identify with your situation. Thanks @Tom and @Tortoise for the male insight. This seems to be as much of a Men are from Mars Women are from Venus thing as it is an Aspy family dynamic. Women have been forced into the workforce to make ends meet but men helping inside the home is still a foreign planet concept in most households. Men are responsible for a 40 hour week paycheck and outdoor yardwork like mowing and grilling and toting the trash to the curb, but women are responsible 24/7 for everything else.

My husband has a genius IQ and is very competent at researching and accomplishing complicated tasks when it's something he is interested in. He is very willing to be helpful and can do so much so well. However, it is mind boggling why he doesn't do important stuff he knows needs to be done or pick up the slack on little stuff when he's just sitting there seeing I am overwhelmed with doing the big stuff alone. He explains it as "You do it better." or "I don't want to bother you by asking when you are busy." even though I can't do 'it' at all and he knows he is bothering me by asking , as well as by not helping. We would discuss division of labor ahead of time and make lists. Even though he got to pick the small handful of items he volunteered to do and I was stuck with all the rest, he would still procrastinate by moving his list aside and never looking at it until I reminded him and then he would only do maybe a step or two and leave it unfinished for years or until I was able to do it by myself or until we suffered the consequences for it not getting done.

When the diagnoses came down, it was clear I would have to accept the fact that changing this was impossible. On the one hand, I thoroughly enjoy doing everything together WITH someone, as opposed to having decisions made FOR me without my consent or any one bothering to consult or consider me. On the other hand, I'm still not that fond of having to be solely responsible for making and carrying out all decisions for all on my own without their input, in order to have any type of life at all. We have managed to shift some time saving tasks to the husband side of the daily chore schedule to leave me some time to handle the unexpected adversities we are plagued with on a daily basis. We also simplified our life as much as possible by limiting our contact with the cold cruel world as much as possible.

Perhaps another good solution to holiday stress would be to delegate those extra tasks to him via the kids or other friend or family. Have them interactively supervise and think out the steps with him, while you do what you've got to do.