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Misery

Levitator

Well-Known Member
Evolutionary psychology has helped me understand NT's a bit and why it's so difficult for us to find love and companionship in this world that is still primitive on so many levels, also why it's so painful for fragiles. I've learned to be very careful about sharing my truth with NT's. I think that simply learning gives life meaning when all else fails. Biographies, psychology, spiritually. I'm so glad that I managed to get old. After decades of depression I've finally got more tools to quickly lift myself up. I used to cry about the people who rejected and abandoned me. Now I realise they aren't my type anyway. I love wierd, humble, individualistic, easy going people. Feelings cannot kill you.
I used to agree with that last statement. But they can. You can have nothing left, and then how are you going to get up out of bed, or off the floor to take the next step? I wish my "feelings" would get it over with.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
As @Misery suggested, most people want to be around positivity. They want their spirits lifted.

There are too many things in our daily lives that are negative, it can really weigh you down with sadness, depression, anger, frustration, cynicism, etc. So, when we run across someone that expresses positivity, happiness, gratefulness, it is a huge dopamine hit and we want to be around that.

If you are seeking empathy or validation for your situation, whatever it is, most people will shy away from you. Nobody wants to be around a "negative Nancy" or a "Debbie downer". I know, it sounds horrible to say that, but if you've been an adult for any more than 5 minutes, you probably know this already.
I get that, but we're on a support forum, for God's sake. We're all Debbie Downers. Let's just forget we have autism and go back into the world and live it up with; positivity! I'm going to wander out into the world,like it's a broadway musical, and do some cartwheels and break into song and; guess what being weird louder is not making you less weird. I don't understand why people keep telling me to keep reality ot myself. Well, then quit the forum. Pretend like you're fine. You can do that, right? Be positive.
 

Neonatal RRT

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I get that, but we're on a support forum, for God's sake. We're all Debbie Downers. Let's just forget we have autism and go back into the world and live it up with; positivity! I'm going to wander out into the world,like it's a broadway musical, and do some cartwheels and break into song and; guess what being weird louder is not making you less weird. I don't understand why people keep telling me to keep reality ot myself. Well, then quit the forum. Pretend like you're fine. You can do that, right? Be positive.
We're all Debbie Downers? No. Just some. I don't outwardly express my feelings, even when I am happy, or sad. I have a fairly "neutral" demeanor. Despite my autism, and even if people know, and many people do, I don't bring them into my inner world. I am going to focus on them. My personality, thoughts, and actions, for the most part, are supportive, optimistic, and positive.

All I suggested was that if you are interacting with people within the context of a first social meeting or "date", most people are going to be attracted to someone who makes them feel good. If they are smiling and laughing and are engaged, then this is a good thing. However, turning the attention towards yourself and discussing things that make you feel bad, whatever it is, creates the opposite effect. Sure, they may be a good, polite listener, but chances are they would rather not go on a second date.
 
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Rodafina

Hopefully Human
Staff member
V.I.P Member
Pretend like you're fine.
I realize you don't like having positive perspectives hollered in your face, but I just wanted to point out that positivity is not at all about pretending you are fine. The most potent positivity is that which sees, hears, and feels the sorrow and despair so deeply and truly and yet still has space to notice and give due attention to the positives. Positive and negative do not cancel each other out, but often they do co-exist.

I'm not suggesting you can or should do this. Your perspective is valid and was formed by your experiences in life. This is not judgment on those who tend to be more positive or negative. Just an observation that positive does not mean no suffering. Positive does not mean no hurt. Positive does not mean no despair. A positive perspective offers balance to the terrible things humans can go through and adds more to the picture.

Again, please hear that I am not writing this to say "Cheer up, @Levitator! Look on the bright side!" Not at all. You have explained your lack of positivity and I accept that. I'm just writing this to say that positivity is not always pretend.
 

David C

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Having a crippling social disability, plus the depression, is one of the toughest hands to be dealt. My main goal has been to not suicide or go out on a death wish. I have cardiovascular disease as a result of my hard life, I'm 62 and sadly the best thing is how quickly time has passed. I'm not as suicidal as I was, no longer suffer from loneliness but am totally isolated. I still hold out hope that I will find a nice relationship, I've only had a few and they were nightmares. I really hope that life gets easier for you and that you find a nice partner.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
I realize you don't like having positive perspectives hollered in your face, but I just wanted to point out that positivity is not at all about pretending you are fine. The most potent positivity is that which sees, hears, and feels the sorrow and despair so deeply and truly and yet still has space to notice and give due attention to the positives. Positive and negative do not cancel each other out, but often they do co-exist.

I'm not suggesting you can or should do this. Your perspective is valid and was formed by your experiences in life. This is not judgment on those who tend to be more positive or negative. Just an observation that positive does not mean no suffering. Positive does not mean no hurt. Positive does not mean no despair. A positive perspective offers balance to the terrible things humans can go through and adds more to the picture.

Again, please hear that I am not writing this to say "Cheer up, @Levitator! Look on the bright side!" Not at all. You have explained your lack of positivity and I accept that. I'm just writing this to say that positivity is not always pretend.
I appreciate your authenticity in kindness, and that goes really far even if I don't understand what you're saying. I'm not satisfied with my life. I hate it. I don't know how to see it in a way that makes it bearable, much less enjoyable. But luckily, I'm not totally out of ideas yet.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
Having a crippling social disability, plus the depression, is one of the toughest hands to be dealt. My main goal has been to not suicide or go out on a death wish. I have cardiovascular disease as a result of my hard life, I'm 62 and sadly the best thing is how quickly time has passed. I'm not as suicidal as I was, no longer suffer from loneliness but am totally isolated. I still hold out hope that I will find a nice relationship, I've only had a few and they were nightmares. I really hope that life gets easier for you and that you find a nice partner.
I'm sorry to hear that. I've had a few really good ones, they were too short, and I wish they had lasted. It works both ways; they give you an incentive to reach for, but then you are always trying to climb back up to the same height, and when you can't do it, it feels Sisyphean.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
I probably shouldn't even reply to the toxic postivity/negativity responses, but it's one of my very late-in-coming revelations in life, among immediate frustrations. All of that stuff you see in fiction, on TV, and especially in the news about people showing empathy. It's idealized. Even the news is. That's why it's news. The community came together for a tornado victim on the 10 o'clock news. It wouldn't make the news if it were ordinary. That's what makes kindness news.

Incidentally, that has pertinence to autism, because we get seen as lacking empathy. Guess what! Hardly anybody has any empathy, but it's those who are different that are always judged worse. This is a highly generalizable lesson. Next time someone treats you like dirt, and they offer up a reason. Ask yourself if they are right, or if they are just judging you worse. It's almost always the latter, and truth or honesty are universally a needle in a haystack in this world.
 

Neonatal RRT

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
You're here to discuss what? Autism? Why? Because it's easy and fun to have it, and it doesn't pose any difficulties or complications, right? Don't be a downer now, and go contradicting me.
You're frustrated at me. Fair enough, but don't assume everyone here is like you. I am who I am. You are who you are. My point was to note that your date partner likely did not want to be subjected to your experience.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
You're frustrated at me. Fair enough, but don't assume everyone here is like you. I am who I am. You are who you are. My point was to note that your date partner likely did not want to be subjected to your experience.
Ok, fair enough, and all of those statements are true. They're not necessarily either empathetic or even helpful, but let's give you credit for being factually correct. That is an unfortunate trait of autism that I will confess to myself. There's a difference between facts and kindness, between knowledge and wisdom; additional examples left as an exercise to the reader.
 

tree

Blue/Green
Staff member
V.I.P Member
@Levitator

In Post #24, I was hoping you'd describe the objective details
of this recent date attempt. That would make it easier for
me to think about it.
 

marc_101

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
@Levitator What type of response to your original post would satisfy you? If there is no possible response, what would you like us to do? You have mentioned before that people ignore you, but here people are spending their time not ignoring you.

I thought about several responses, but none seemed ok. So maybe it's easier to ask you directly.
 

1ForAll

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Although I think you were both ok in "some way" for the date, from the little I know, both you and her seemed to make the wrong first impression to each other and it is obviously partially why things ended. I mean you were being you and maybe wanting some compassion or empathy or just to answer her questions perhaps or to explain your current situation or present or past health issues and struggles--and to be truthful there--whereas she was maybe caught off guard by you showing or talking of your problems so early on, thinking she deserved you putting your best foot forward and prioritizing her and wanting more positivity for at least that first date, not making excuses or not wanting you to share your problems or pain that quickly.. Coming to a date tired or not in the best mood does not seem like a recipe to have a pleasant and exciting conversation.

I just think for many, negativity or certain behavior issues shown seen early on from another is a warning sign to stay away, if not sooner then later, unless that other has strong empathy and desires to mainly support or assist which is really rare, as the other may assume you are very needy or self absorbed or things will get worse if on day one they are already wanting to share or will show problems, limitations or behavioral difficulties . Pushing too fast to be close by revealing or showing our troubles early on or to find out their views on romance and to expect much compassion shown back the first date is not the best approach, sorry, and yes your depression. Autism, or anxiety could be affecting your reasoning or thinking of the other first there, if not it is just a desire of you to not play games and be honest from the start. There is a fine line sometimes between being who we are but confoming to typical "basic" expected norms early in the relationship. If you cannot or will not mask or adapt to typical NT dating needs, you may not want to date those types, but ones who could understand more.

Attitude is everything to many. Yes there are tons of negative persons in relationships too, usually the negative with each other if that is what you want. Most dating will want more positive, functional and exciting others, so they may even play that deceiving relationship game where they say or show what the other wants to see or hear, or by focusing on the good or appropriate things to do or say while hiding the rest until later, after seeing rejection after rejection when they were mostly themselves.. And yes, talking of negatives is a turn off to most when dating. What do you offer the relationship, and what is the other interested in, as it is not just about you. What you revealed to us here focused on your health issues, so if she sensed that too, she rather not take those risks. I realize though you must have talked other more positive things though over that few hours.

Too often though on this forum I see people focused on what they want for a relationship, or not stating specifically what they want or being too unreasonable or selective there, and most importantly they are not focused on what they can give to a relationship. And they seem to push away those who gave them a chance by their attitude, rigid ways, distancing or negativity. Nobody here is owed a relationship. Yes, there are tons of people who won't give you chances, but it is partially because most of those others need something in return, and by changing at least slightly ones attitude and efforts that can make a difference to being alone or having others in our lives.

There is a reason why many with Autism have less relationship chances. I am not talking about those successful ones. Of course many people will often go for those with good jobs or money regardless of condition, even if that other is emotionally distant negative, has some deficit or seems selfish, depressed or self centered in ways. It is OK to have problems as we all do, and to share such from time to time too, but constant focus on ourselves, our problems or showing too many limitations or quirks zaps all of the energy out of others around them. Givers gave only so much time and effort to give. So, they will go to the ones who will appreciate their efforts or to the ones who they think will give up to 50% back.

I am doing fine in life. Yeah, I have had my share of health problems, past and recent, and I was alone for twenty years prior to marriage blaming everyone else, fearing or sulking, but my better attitude and efforts since helps me get past any difficulties and problems as I focus on what I can control or change, my efforts and attitude. Dwelling on the rest is wasted energy. Dwelling on other things once we learn from those experiences can get us support if we want that. But, if you want change, if those things that can be changed, or if you want not the status quo, it requires often more than that.

I personally would appreciate any and all advice and support given me regardless if I agreed, as they took the time to show care there in their ways,and as I can see good in all replies. Once we critique those people who were trying to show kindness and care, getting upset because they said or did something we were not expecting or did not want to see or hear, but then feeling entitled to express in any harsher way we desire, we are showing a desire to create separate rules for ourselves and others. If we want to be ourselves, let the others be themselves too. If we respect others' feelings though, they will be more apt to respect ours.

The answer is not for us here to tell you what you want to here, but to word things in our best way to how we feel about your situation. Each of us will have a unique perspective that you may or may not have considered before, and that may or may not benefit you but at least we are trying. It is more than reasonable for us to support or assist in the best ways we know how, not just in the manner the other feels is best, as we are allowing them to express mostly things we may or may not agree with too, without much critique there unless critiqued first.
 
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Masked Man

Well-Known Member
Okay I don't mean this to sound rude, but if your mental health is really that bad, maybe you're not in the right state of mind to date?

I mean... you're going to be hard-pressed to find anyone who wants to be someone's unpaid therapist. I know people have the blues - that's normal - but going on a date that you knew you were already not feeling up to and you spent the date complaining about it? That's setting yourself up for failure.

Have some self-awareness - if you know you're not up to it, use your words and say that. There's no harm in saying "look I'm really not up to this tonight, any chance we can reschedule?"

And yes I know that people should give you patience and grace - but you have to do the same in exchange by demonstrating at least some self-awareness and forethought and consideration for others.
 

Misery

Amalga Heart
V.I.P Member
I told you my health is a wreck, several times over. That's not a choice that I make.

I never said it was? My health aint exactly great either, you know.

When you say you're not interested in romance, that's all I need to hear. Neither of us connect with people.

No... that's all you WANT to hear, because it fits the "everything sucks" narrative of yours.

I can connect with people just fine (note that "connect" does not mean "instantly becomes a friend", that's not how anything works at all). I could give example after example after example of that. Dont assume that everyone is X or Y simply because they're on the spectrum, or something, or because you disagree with them on something. Just like how not everyone is a "Debbie downer".

Here's the thing about all of this: you can argue with people on here all you want, and that's fine. Argue with or ignore me if you want, that's fine. Ignore or disagree with others in your life who may be giving you advice of some sort, that's fine. Ignore all that isnt a direct repetition of and/or agreement with the words in your head.... that's fine. That's your choice. But the bit that ISNT your choice, the bit that never will be your choice, is how others respond to things they encounter. People who get pushed away by that cloud you keep with you? You dont get to decide on the fact that they react to such a cloud by avoiding you (or by avoiding anyone else who also has that cloud). No amount of people agreeing with every bloody thing you say, no amount of people repeating all of the "everything is so bad, I hate everything" that you tell yourself is going to change any of that.

But, as I also said, although you cannot change how people you encounter respond to things, you CAN give them something different to respond to. I aint saying you have to be all flowers and smiles and blah blah blah... that's not what I or anyone means by any of what we've said. That's not what "attitude" means at all. But one way or another, you either make a change, or nothing will change... THAT, I promise you.

I want to see you thrive, I want to see you in a position where you can feel better (whatever form that position may take, it's different for everyone really). That's what I want. Others here would like that as well, I bet. But only YOU can make that happen. Only YOU can take the steps that will allow the possibility to even exist.

and most importantly they are not focused on what they can give to a relationship.

This reminds me of something I heard on the ol' internet somewhere, a line I think is pretty relevant to all of this:

"Dont focus on finding the right person. Focus instead on BECOMING the right person for others to find."

Heck if I know who came up with that line, but it's a darned good one, I think.
 

Levitator

Well-Known Member
If you
I never said it was? My health aint exactly great either, you know.



No... that's all you WANT to hear, because it fits the "everything sucks" narrative of yours.

I can connect with people just fine (note that "connect" does not mean "instantly becomes a friend", that's not how anything works at all). I could give example after example after example of that. Dont assume that everyone is X or Y simply because they're on the spectrum, or something, or because you disagree with them on something. Just like how not everyone is a "Debbie downer".

Here's the thing about all of this: you can argue with people on here all you want, and that's fine. Argue with or ignore me if you want, that's fine. Ignore or disagree with others in your life who may be giving you advice of some sort, that's fine. Ignore all that isnt a direct repetition of and/or agreement with the words in your head.... that's fine. That's your choice. But the bit that ISNT your choice, the bit that never will be your choice, is how others respond to things they encounter. People who get pushed away by that cloud you keep with you? You dont get to decide on the fact that they react to such a cloud by avoiding you (or by avoiding anyone else who also has that cloud). No amount of people agreeing with every bloody thing you say, no amount of people repeating all of the "everything is so bad, I hate everything" that you tell yourself is going to change any of that.

But, as I also said, although you cannot change how people you encounter respond to things, you CAN give them something different to respond to. I aint saying you have to be all flowers and smiles and blah blah blah... that's not what I or anyone means by any of what we've said. That's not what "attitude" means at all. But one way or another, you either make a change, or nothing will change... THAT, I promise you.

I want to see you thrive, I want to see you in a position where you can feel better (whatever form that position may take, it's different for everyone really). That's what I want. Others here would like that as well, I bet. But only YOU can make that happen. Only YOU can take the steps that will allow the possibility to even exist.



This reminds me of something I heard on the ol' internet somewhere, a line I think is pretty relevant to all of this:

"Dont focus on finding the right person. Focus instead on BECOMING the right person for others to find."

Heck if I know who came up with that line, but it's a darned good one, I think.
If you don't believe in romance, then do me a favor and don't comment, much less criticize me for my struggle with it. It's just going to upset both of us. Wait until there's a thread on engines or computers. We might both enjoy that, and you might learn to care about people via such a crutch.
 

Metalhead

Video game and movie addict.
V.I.P Member
If you

If you don't believe in romance, then do me a favor and don't comment, much less criticize me for my struggle with it. It's just going to upset both of us. Wait until there's a thread on engines or computers. We might both enjoy that, and you might learn to care about people via such a crutch.
Dude, I was just like you when I was drowning in beer and bourbon.

People here give a damn about you, but you insist on pushing them away. That’s your prerogative but you are only screwing yourself over here. Why do you hate yourself that much?
 

Misery

Amalga Heart
V.I.P Member
If you

If you don't believe in romance, then do me a favor and don't comment, much less criticize me for my struggle with it. It's just going to upset both of us. Wait until there's a thread on engines or computers. We might both enjoy that, and you might learn to care about people via such a crutch.

I never said "I dont believe in romance". I dont have interest in a romantic relationship FOR MYSELF. That doesnt mean I dont believe in the concept. What part of "dont assume things about others" didnt make sense up there? (also seriously I've literally been approached romantically BY OTHERS, which should say something to you here. It's just that I personally do not seek out that specific type of relationship. I sure will seek out other types, though, like friendship).

But it's easier for you to focus on what you perceive to be MY problem, and use that as an excuse to not even hear what's being said, rather than focus on any issue that might be yours, isnt it?

Also I never criticized you for your struggle with... any of this. That's... not what I meant. I'm pretty sure that's not what ANYONE here meant. Everyone wants the best for you, whether you can accept that fact or not.

By the way, the way you're acting right here, right now, is a PERFECT example of what I was saying earlier. That bit about people not wanting to hang around what I describe as "someone carrying a dark cloud".

Do you think others would want to hang around someone who is doing what you are doing right now, acting the way you're acting right now?

Speaking of which, my patience is getting a bit frayed, so I'm out, for now.
 

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