Messiah

[Wolfsage]

I respect the views you have as best I can. But, I do worry. Knowing what I know. I would be remiss in not speaking of it. There is a danger Jesus speaks of in the Bible. A trap the world is falling into again. As it has done for centuries. None of what is going on now with human behavior and ideals is new.
All of this has happened before again and again.

I have tested the Bible with science and math as best I can. Every word I tested held true.

 

[SimonSays]

I respect the views you have as best I can.

Thank you

But, I do worry. Knowing what I know.

I worry, knowing what you know.

None of what is going on now with human behavior and ideals is new.

Agreed

All of this has happened before again and again.

And will keep doing so until we become who we truly are.

Every word I tested held true.

But did you test all the words?

What about...“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die".

or

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".

Did you find these to be true?

 

[Wolfsage]

But did you test all the words?

What about...“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die".

or

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".

Did you find these to be true?

Do you understand the context? Why these words were written?
These things were and are considered wrong and evil in the eyes of God. This was punishment for the acts listed. But, also meant to deter others from preforming these acts. Which lead away from him. To vile and evil ends. A path full of hatred, lies, murder, and death and worse after.
Every sin is weighed the same in his eyes. There isn't one greater then the other. All to death.
But, to be sure there is a lot more wrapped in answer to this. I can only say that it is in the Bible. Written and told. But, people will find that out soon enough.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Probably better answered by a Christian. I only mention it to explain the role of Judas. Not really important to the thread,

Messiah=Saviour is that right?
The only way I think Jesus was a saviour is from the wisdom he learnt from people he considered wiser, which he tried to impart.

 

[Gift2humanity]

As it is stated. Jesus Christ died for our sins. Then rose from the dead three days later. As he said he would. It was spoken in the prophecys of the old testament. This was done to save us from our sins. It was the only way.

I don't believe anyone can "rise from the dead" not even Jesus, I believe our body stops working and our soul reincarnates. Can't say off the top of my head but there are references to reincarnation in the bible, also the early Christians believed in it before it was taken out.

 

[Gift2humanity]

No, it isn't symbolic. And we are "not" God. Read the book of Job . We have the potential to be the "sons" of God.
The gospel speaks the truth. The Bible is truth. A second coming will occur.
As for corruption. I'm well aware of what mankind can do. So I tested and learned what I could. It's words stood up to every test. "Test" the words yourself. Read it fully. But, learn it's truth in life.

The entire cosmos is made of electromagnetic energy which vibrates at many different frequencies. This is help me get all of the different things plants, animals, humans, water, fire, things that are made, everything.
Physics is involved.
Emotion as a word is made up of energy in motion.
Good people with positive emotions vibrate at a high electrical magnetic frequency.
Badly behaved people with negative emotions vibrate at a lower electrical magnetic frequency..
This is good and evil. Ignorance is the root of all evil.
It is a paradox, God is everyone everything the one-ness, infinity and at the same time he is each individual atom in our body, he is each of us.
Science, physics helps me get my head around this.
We are children of God, yes, but we are also God, He is that great.

The book of Job is a very long book, I am self diagnosed ADHD only Aspie is official and it just won't go in, but the message of it, according to google is why do evil people get good things and good people suffer.
It is karma from previous lives.

Our souls are eternal, and while our bodies die, our souls, provided we have not died an untimely death, murder, suicide (including not looking after our bodies properly and dying of illness, accident) we reincarnate into another life. Those who die un-natural deaths enter ghost-hood, which is why derelict mental hospitals, prisons etc are often haunted.
The hauntings are where the deceased person spent most of their energy.
Somone who has not lived right, become too attached to material things, not let go of grief, can also enter ghosthood.
Many of us can sense ghosts, some of us have seen them, especially children, as their minds are not polluted by mundane, secular, day-to-day stuff.
Getting back to good and evil, our words, deeds and even our thoughts, determine what karmic debt we will have to pay in subsequent lives.
If we kill, in a subsequent incarntion we will be killed, this goes for any evil act.
Deepak Chopra said karma is an excellent account keeper.

Nature is all about balance, and of course, nature is God too.
In the West we are taught to misinterpret the real meaning of the bible, not to mention that it has been altered and changed to suit whoever was "in control" at the time.
We have different religions because of control, the pope controls the Catholic Church.
This is one of the richest organisations in the world and is very corrupt. I was born a Catholic.
That is not to say there is no truth in the bible, it is all allegory, alludes to truths, but we have to have "eyes to see" as Jesus said and "Ears to hear"
Donald Trump may seem rich and have everything he wants, but he has karmic debt, he came into the world with Karmic debt, he had an abusive upbringing, and responded to his abuse by adopting a narcissistic attitude, so he has failed to pay back his karmic debt. That is to say, he is not happy deep down, he may appear fortunate but he is deeply unhappy which can be seen in the rages he has, the insecurity about his physical appearance etc.
I hope that clarifies things.
PS with regards to the Second Coming, I think I mentioned this earlier, Christ is not coming back, Jesus meant by the second coming, that we are to engage in right action, thought and deed, treat our bodies as temples and we will gain Christ Consciousness, just like the Eastern seers and sages, that Jesus had the humility to consult for his own wisdom. That Christ Consciousness is the second coming and it is there for those who are on the right path.

 

[Gift2humanity]

What else could we be? Unless you think God is somehow separate from his own creation?
This IS God. There is nothing that is not God. God is all that is. All is One.

We may not be AWARE we are God, because we are ignorant of God. We are a facet, so that through us God experiences himself as if he were not God, as we make our way to him. But we are still God. And by connecting to 'christ-consciousness/holy spirit' we know it.

Just words. What do they mean if not what I've been talking about?

Just believing/interpreting words in a book doesn't make it true. We can only know ourselves through experience.

This is the one-ness I was trying to convey in my previous posts.
God is creation, I did some art today, albeit not great art, but even that is creation and therefore God.
Destruction is turning away from God, negative speech, deed, thought, destroying of property, etc etc.
It's like an electrical charge, like attracts like, positive = good, negative = bad. I had three electricians in our family and never understood the + and - signs on plugs, they are electricity, energy of which everything is made of, which is consciousness which in turn is God.

I think Bill hicks said: “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”

Putting drugs aside, as LSD is man made and tries to do what plant medicine does and has messed up a lot of people, A young man with heightened consciousness realised all matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself. No death, life is a dream, we are God's dream.

 

[Gift2humanity]

He is and he isn't. The answer is complicated. But, "we" are not God. The book of Job makes that clear.

Yet, that is part of having faith. God and Jesus both followed the words laid down in scripture to the letter.
Experience counts for some of it. But, mostly it's faith. A second coming will occur as it is written.
If you find this hard to believe. Consider. Atomic weapons were mythical a hundred years ago. Someone had faith in the Science and kept working to make it a reality. In short they had faith in something that didn't exist and science hadn't proven.
This internet didn't exist twenty five years ago. Someone believed it was possible. Until it was proven by Science. Fiction became reality because someone believed it could.

The book of Job is long and complex, and no one knows if it has been changed, but it basically says that God=good Evil=turning away from God, but All is God, even Satan.

That is not to say God is evil, it is to say he is omniscient, and we as individual units of that God. As the oneness he has permitted us to have free will and make individual choices.

It is up to us as individuals whether we choose good or evil, whether we choose knowledge or ignorance, we have this free will but we have no free will over the consequences of the choices we make.

I have faith in God, it's myself I need to have faith in, I am still learning and because I have little faith in myself, it could be said that I need to find a way to have more faith in God as I am an atom in his "body" even though God does not have his own body like man. This is an analogy.

See what I wrote earlier about the second coming.

Devices that can record smell do not yet exist, however, in time, I fancy, somehow, I don't know how, but they will, just as the Galileans could not conceive of the internet, we in the 21st century cannot conceive of "Smell recording devices" so we can send smells to people as well as pictures and words (written and spoken media) that we do today via internet.

 

[Gift2humanity]

That's where we differ.

I can grasp the concept although paradoxical that we are God, and at the same time He is a supreme being (I think) because it's thinking positive, and by that I don't mean unrealistically optimistic, (I'm going to win the lottery). Acceptance can be positive, a Vietnam Veteran loses his legs, and gets prosthetic, he can deny this, go into a depression and wither psychically and eventually physically, or he can accept it and live a fulfilled life. The latter choice is God to me.

 

[Gift2humanity]

God followed the words laid down in scripture? That doesn't make sense.

That is true. If you believe completely, it will feel real for you.

How do you know? Because it is written? It is also written...“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die". Do you think this ought to happen?

What about..."If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death". Will you put these people to death? After all, you must believe it is right to as every word is true.

Or maybe you don't believe these particular things. Which means you can pick and choose the bits you follow and those you decide not to. Right?

Hmmm...

Not that I took much interest in mass as a catholic kid as it was boring, but I believed in God. I probably would have believed automatically that both he and Jesus followed the Bible, without realising that it wasn't even written then.

Catholics are against homosexuality as it's un-natural in that it doesn't produce babies.
I know it is stigmatised, but somewhere I mentioned so long as there is love and respect (which is part of love) what is wrong with it?

 

[Gift2humanity]

I respect the views you have as best I can. But, I do worry. Knowing what I know. I would be remiss in not speaking of it. There is a danger Jesus speaks of in the Bible. A trap the world is falling into again. As it has done for centuries. None of what is going on now with human behavior and ideals is new.
All of this has happened before again and again.

I have tested the Bible with science and math as best I can. Every word I tested held true.

We are in a dark cycle of time, the Kali Yuga as the Hindus call it.
Evil is reigning, however this dark age has thousands of years.
There are four yugas, these yogas make mathematical sense, time wise.
Here is a quote from Brittanica.com
Yuga | Hinduism
"Yuga, in Hindu cosmology, an age of humankind. Each yuga is progressively shorter than the preceding one, corresponding to a decline in the moral and physical state of humanity. Four such yugas (called Krita, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali, after the throws of an Indian game of dice) make up the mahayuga(“great yuga”), and 2,000 mahayugas make up the basic cosmic cycle, the kalpa. The first yuga (Krita) was an age of perfection lasting 1,728,000 years. The fourth and most-degenerate yuga (Kali) is the present age, which began in 3102 BCE and will last 432,000 years. At the close of the Kali yuga, the world will be destroyed, to be re-created after a period of quiescence as the cycle resumes again. In Hindu astronomy, a yuga is a unit of time consisting of five solar years."
The Hindus are one of the few religions that accept all other faiths, they believed Jesus walked the earth, I believe Jesus took counsel from them to pass onto his disciples to spread the word.
Civilisations have risen and fallen, due to greed, lust, desires etc.
Each Yuga is half that of it's predecessor, or double if you start with the shortest. That is no accident or co-incidence.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Do you understand the context? Why these words were written?
These things were and are considered wrong and evil in the eyes of God. This was punishment for the acts listed. But, also meant to deter others from preforming these acts. Which lead away from him. To vile and evil ends. A path full of hatred, lies, murder, and death and worse after.
Every sin is weighed the same in his eyes. There isn't one greater then the other. All to death.
But, to be sure there is a lot more wrapped in answer to this. I can only say that it is in the Bible. Written and told. But, people will find that out soon enough.

Homosexuality is not wrong or evil. Man decided it was, man stigmatised it for egoic reasons.
It is different and man in general does not like differences. He likes conformity, and sameness.
Homosexuality was considered a mental illness not so long ago.
It doesn't produce babies, it doesn't add more lives and unwanted children to this already over-populated world.
You could say that some heterosexual relationships are motivated by evil, those people who have kids to prostitute out, to make money, to sell, to traffic.
Narcissistic parents who have children to leach off, to create dependent, docile, compliant slaves, with no regard for the lives of their offspring when they die.
So long as there is love and respect in a homosexual relationship, I do not see a problem.

 

[Wolfsage]

I don't believe anyone can "rise from the dead"

This part is where me and many people disagree. I do not for a moment doubt Jesus rise from the dead. It was spoken of in prophesy before it happened. God and Jesus both stayed true to what is written in the Bible. He rose three days later after the crucifixion. As was foretold.

I find it hard to believe people don't believe that part. Given the many amazing things that have happened.
I don't believe in reincarnation. I think everything created is original. Individuals.

 

[Wolfsage]

Homosexuality is not wrong or evil. Man decided it was, man stigmatised it for egoic reasons.
It is different and man in general does not like differences. He likes conformity, and sameness.
Homosexuality was considered a mental illness not so long ago.
It doesn't produce babies, it doesn't add more lives and unwanted children to this already over-populated world.
You could say that some heterosexual relationships are motivated by evil, those people who have kids to prostitute out, to make money, to sell, to traffic.
Narcissistic parents who have children to leach off, to create dependent, docile, compliant slaves, with no regard for the lives of their offspring when they die.
So long as there is love and respect in a homosexual relationship, I do not see a problem.

I'll put it this way. It's a trap. One that has been spring on people for thousands of years. A lie set up by Satan to hurt God threw his people which he dearly loves. "If you never admit it's a sin how can you be forgiven for it." And in asking forgiveness for it be saved from Hell. But, people believe this part of the Bible can be disregarded. Because it is an inconvenient truth.
In short man manipulating the Bible once more to his own ends.
Apologies for being blunt. I know God's thoughts on the matter threw Bible study. And don't disregard that scripture so easily. It's a warning. From a God that loves you.
Again apologies for being blunt.

 

[Wolfsage]

even Satan.

Yeah. God and Satan are two very distinct beings. God did create Satan then called Lucifer. Until Satan turned against him.
I suspect it is because angels were given free will before us. This are their "good" angels and bad angels "demons".

 

[SimonSays]

These things were and are considered wrong and evil in the eyes of God. This was punishment for the acts listed. But, also meant to deter others from preforming these acts. Which lead away from him.

Only in the eyes of those who do not see. People are born the way they are. We are ALL God's children.
Shall we put to death all those God has made different?
Be careful, maybe they will come for you next.

Unfortunately you are not saying anything different to many of your club's 'true believers'.
Those same believers have been responsible for persecuting and killing for centuries in God's name.
God is LOVE.
Where is yours for those who are different?
Let go of thinking like this. You can do it.
Your Westboro Baptist church does enough hating for all of you.

 

[Gift2humanity]

This part is where me and many people disagree. I do not for a moment doubt Jesus rise from the dead. It was spoken of in prophesy before it happened. God and Jesus both stayed true to what is written in the Bible. He rose three days later after the crucifixion. As was foretold.

I find it hard to believe people don't believe that part. Given the many amazing things that have happened.
I don't believe in reincarnation. I think everything created is original. Individuals.

All I can so is state my beliefs, and It's ok if no one agrees with them.
I feel I am sort of repeating myself. I feel, rightly or wrongly, the resurrection is in the bible to show us how we can redeem ourselves.
Easter, resurrection day, falls on the first Sunday after the full moon following the spring equinox, a time when the hours of daylight are equal, and then become greater than the dark hours.
Spring is new growth and new beginnings.
I cannot force you to believe in reincarnation, and I don't want to keep banging on about it's reason as I have already

 

[Gift2humanity]

I'll put it this way. It's a trap. One that has been spring on people for thousands of years. A lie set up by Satan to hurt God threw his people which he dearly loves. "If you never admit it's a sin how can you be forgiven for it." And in asking forgiveness for it be saved from Hell. But, people believe this part of the Bible can be disregarded. Because it is an inconvenient truth.
In short man manipulating the Bible once more to his own ends.
Apologies for being blunt. I know God's thoughts on the matter threw Bible study. And don't disregard that scripture so easily. It's a warning. From a God that loves you.
Again apologies for being blunt.

Homosexuality is a trap?
I am astonished, it, like it's heterosexual counterpart can be good or evil, depending on the partners. It can be love. Gay marriages and adopted children are fine by me, so long as both parents bring them up right. We cannot help it if we are attracted to members of the same sex, so long as we respect those same-sex people and treat them with love.
You can be as blunt as you like, I am blunt, it's a public forum and we are not being abusive.
So much has been done to the bible, rightly or wrongly, I am unsure whether the verse regarding homosexuality has been put in for unsavoury reasons.
Apart from abusive homosexual relationships, bearing in mind abuse can happen in hererosexual relationships, I cannot see any problem in a loving homosexual relationship at all.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Yeah. God and Satan are two very distinct beings. God did create Satan then called Lucifer. Until Satan turned against him.
I suspect it is because angels were given free will before us. This are their "good" angels and bad angels "demons".

You see, to me, while God is Good, as he is omniscient, he encompasses everything, he is "it".
"It" includes demons, Satan, as well as angels. Think of good and evil, we need evil to define good. If evil was taken away, then we would have Good and better, there would still be a dichotomy, we cannot get rid of opposites.
Better would feel better than just mere good.
If we took away the colour black, we would still have grey which is darker than white.
If we took away white, we would still have grey which is lighter than white.
I speak in metaphor a lot, it's the best way I can get my point across, nothing like a good analogy. This is not to say that God does bad, it is to say that Demons are part of him, and they, as individual entities choose bad, or fall into traps where they think bad is good.

 

[SimonSays]

Only in the eyes of those who do not see. People are born the way they are. We are ALL God's children.
Shall we put to death all those God has made different?
Be careful, maybe they will come for you next.

Unfortunately you are not saying anything different to many of your club's 'true believers'.
Those same believers have been responsible for persecuting and killing for centuries in God's name.
God is LOVE.
Where is yours for those who are different?
Let go of thinking like this. You can do it.
Your Westboro Baptist church does enough hating for all of you.

@Wolfsage

I know you disagree with what I said. You know you aren't wrong. You know I'm not right. We are somehow too far apart. You are certain and you must be, otherwise it would not be faith.

Faith means without doubt, right? Everything accepted, without question.

This was my issue with my own faith. Being brought up to accept it without question even though I couldn't help having them. I expected the rabbi's to have wonderful answers to satisfy a curious child, then help wrap me up in the bubble of faith that proved we had it all figure out. But they didn't, and some didn't even want to try.

We were taught to fear outsiders, the goy, the non-jews. Making sure the school gates remained locked so we'd feel safe.

We were told we were the chosen ones, God's chosen people, and it was implied that in being chosen we were special and that made us better, when in fact what it meant to be 'chosen' was we were being held to a higher standard, not better than anyone.

I wasn't able to live inside the safety of my faith's bubble, the safety of any faith's bubble, and I understood, much later on, how reassuring that would be. Maybe I would've liked to have felt that sense of community, of belonging, the familiarity of having made Judaism everything to me. And of course I would have felt the truth of it, because it is a real thing, just as your faith is.

To just accept things when I didn't feel them wasn't possible. To me, it was just another example of masking. Being a believer, rather than someone whom God was calling to make his own path.

We cannot step into each other's shoes, for we would have to have lived in them to know what it is like.

It isn't hard to pick apart those things in the bible that seem like they should not be there. And there is a good chance that some things were removed or altered, different versions came out, different interpretations in translation.

So those quotes I refer to, that turn many away in today's more accepting societies, could be removed without affecting the core truth. That if the church was to publicly and unequivocally accept ALL God's children as valid in whatever way that feel they must be, it would make it so much easier for people to find their faith in that book once again. Wouldn't that be a good thing.