Married + late ASD1 diagnosis = problems

[Grondhammar]

First, thank you for creating and keeping up this space. This forum has quickly become a retreat where I feel like I can read about others who experience the world the same way I do, and be supported/accepted. Thanks everyone.

@Coxhere's thread (What is love?) really triggered a lot of thought. I have typed and retyped below, but wiped it all out several times. I just can't talk about this easily, not yet at least.

Instead I will ask: if you are someone who has entered a "love" relationship without knowing you're autistic, and discovered it later:

1) did you experience labelling/negative namecalling/accusation because of your symptoms? i.e. did the expectation you're NT lead to negativity?

2) how did you resolve this? (if at all)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. This is a really painful part of my diagnosis -- feeling shame for having hidden under my (unconsciously-created) mask, but having done the best I could the whole time. And it's never been enough.

 

[Aspychata]

I stumbled into a very nice friendship with a person, who l couldn't quite understand. So l started reading about autism, and later surmised we were both there. Nothing was resolved, l remember l kept asking them if we were the same, but l didn't understand the context l was asking in. We just felt very similar but in a good way. I could just be myself in front of them, and l felt like l understood them, with zero judgment.

 

[Tired]

Not sure I fully understand your situation. You are in a relationship which you started by masking, and later you stopped masking and now you aren't accepted for who you are? If that won't get resolved, then I'm not sure why are you in that marriage.
Relationship is a thing which both people need to cherish and nourish. If only one person does or no one at all - what is the point?

 

[Aspychata]

But you have a very valid question, alot of us don't discover this until the relationship has been in place for some time. In my case, the person didn't divulge this info. No shame, no blame, it's just learning to navigate the waters. We can attract others on the spectrum.

 

[Grondhammar]

Thanks to both of you for your thoughts & experience.

@Tired, you make a very, very good point, and I agree. I'm just wondering if there are ideas on how to resolve it, or at least understand what others have done in this situation. I'm asking here because self-help relationship books and blogs have little to do with the reality of an un-masked autistic.

@Aspychata, Your own experience gives me a little glimmer of hope. I think that's the best I could want; to get to a point of understanding where it's not about expectations, but instead re-imagining what a relationship is given new parameters.

...just noticed what an alexithymic way that was to say that

 

[Tired]

I do not understand why is it important that you are autistic. Like... you are still human with your likes and dislikes, and both NTs and NDs just want to be loved and understood without the need to be someone they are not.
If your SO bullies you because you are autistic and not what they expected (what you presented to them while masking), then I don't see much of a point to try to save that relationship...but let's see.

Normally people talk about problems, communication is the key of any relationship, friendly or romantic one.
Did you explain to your SO that that masking was not something you planned, but something you did without knowing and that you regret it? Did you tell them that you are pained by the way they now behave towards you?
From their side they feel betrayed because they basically married another person and you are a liar and a cheat by behaving one way and now in another way. By that I understand their frustration. What I don't understand is why they themselves just started attacking you and are still married to you, if it is all that bad? And why couldn't they sit down with you and just talk about how both of you are feeling, and what can you and they do to save the relationship.

I am a divorced person myself, so I know what it is to live with a person, who slowly became not what he was once, and who did not want to talk about it or change anything for me to feel better in a relationship.

 

[Jumpinbare]

While I had no clue I was autistic, I knew I was weird, and with efficient Aspie logic I made sure to "put my worst foot forward" and disclose all my known weirdnesses right at the beginning of our relationship. That way, she had the opportunity to run off screaming before either of us had anything vested in the relationship.

Still, yes there was frustration on both our parts for years. I really was trying as hard as I could, but it was never enough. Then, unbeknownst to me at the time, she became familiar with autism through one of her CE (continuing education) courses. (She was a nurse and had to maintain a minimum number of CEs to keep her license current, but she did extra CEs for fun.)

She started changing her interactions with me, thinking I fit perfectly into an autism profile. Things became much better between us. Eventually she shared her conclusion that I was autistic, which at first I summarily dismissed (actually for years).

 

[Grondhammar]

I do not understand why is it important that you are autistic. Like... you are still human with your likes and dislikes, and both NTs and NDs just want to be loved and understood without the need to be someone they are not.
If your SO bullies you because you are autistic and not what they expected (what you presented to them while masking), then I don't see much of a point to try to save that relationship...but let's see.

Normally people talk about problems, communication is the key of any relationship, friendly or romantic one.
Did you explain to your SO that that masking was not something you planned, but something you did without knowing and that you regret it? Did you tell them that you are pained by the way they now behave towards you?
From their side they feel betrayed because they basically married another person and you are a liar and a cheat by behaving one way and now in another way. By that I understand their frustration. What I don't understand is why they themselves just started attacking you and are still married to you, if it is all that bad? And why couldn't they sit down with you and just talk about how both of you are feeling, and what can you and they do to save the relationship.

I am a divorced person myself, so I know what it is to live with a person, who slowly became not what he was once, and who did not want to talk about it or change anything for me to feel better in a relationship.

Thank you @Tired, I think that's exactly what I needed to hear.

I read your post earlier this morning and thought about it. Your thought that it doesn't matter whether I'm autistic or not, same problem for NT folks, helped me realise that I'm leaning on the diagnosis way too much. To me it helps explain everything, but my SO is looking at this from the outside. I feel so totally inept/incapable at bridging that gap, but yes, communication (the real kind, not just blah-blah-blah) is vital.

 

[Grondhammar]

While I had no clue I was autistic, I knew I was weird, and with efficient Aspie logic I made sure to "put my worst foot forward" and disclose all my known weirdnesses right at the beginning of our relationship. That way, she had the opportunity to run off screaming before either of us had anything vested in the relationship.

Still, yes there was frustration on both our parts for years. I really was trying as hard as I could, but it was never enough. Then, unbeknownst to me at the time, she became familiar with autism through one of her CE (continuing education) courses. (She was a nurse and had to maintain a minimum number of CEs to keep her license current, but she did extra CEs for fun.)

She started changing her interactions with me, thinking I fit perfectly into an autism profile. Things became much better between us. Eventually she shared her conclusion that I was autistic, which at first I summarily dismissed (actually for years).

That's a brilliant way to go about this (your "worst foot forward" approach). If I were doing it all over again, I'd absolutely adopt that! I think I'll adopt it anyway, even if it's a little later than you.

And how wonderful that those CE credits became something so useful. I'm not sure how to navigate this since it's information being brought in by me, but that gives me something to consider. Thank you.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I understand. I did not know that I was autistic until I was diagnosed in 2019.

As a teen and young adult I was shy, socially anxious, and withdrawn socially. Because of my intelligence people thought that this was a choice. The people close to me wondered why I was not dating or involved with relationships. I was accused of being gay.

Finally at 25 I was having successes; in research (published), in pursuing my interests (even if alone) and began enjoying who I was and was gaining personal agency. My social and emotional maturity was improving and I was confident enough to be vulnerable with people I liked. Soon after, at 28, I met my future spouse and she and I have been committed since. She has referred to me as her aspie guy. There was no negativity between us as we have been supportive of each other. After we met and were lovers we had a LDR for a time. Living 300 miles apart we made the effort to visit each other on weekends and even planned long-weekend trips. That, more than anything convinced me that we would work to support each other and we were married a year to the day we met, 46 years ago.

Then, as we aged and her libido waned, navigating that let thoughts of my earlier sexual isolation and loneliness start to trigger me to inhabit the mind of that wounded young man. My anger was impacting the relationship with my spouse so I sought help. When I did, I was diagnosed as ASD-1. It was a lot of work and introspection understanding the ways I wounded myself using Cognitive Processing Therapy, but now I am on an even keel.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Instead I will ask: if you are someone who has entered a "love" relationship without knowing you're autistic, and discovered it later:

1) did you experience labelling/negative namecalling/accusation because of your symptoms? i.e. did the expectation you're NT lead to negativity?

Yes! I can write a book on my innumerable experiences with this.

2) how did you resolve this? (if at all)

There are people in your inner circle, professionally and personally, you can be open with...that are intellectually curious...that can have some form of empathy and sympathy for our autistic experience. There are other people who you thought you could trust...and later found out that you can't...leaving you feeling rejected...but exposing their true nature so you can eliminate them from your life. There are people you definitely do not want to be open with...are in your life, but more or less a consequence of your environment that you'd rather avoid.

Personally, I am in a professional position of being a veteran of some 40 years within an organization of, overall, a group of intelligent, open-minded people. I am an educator, a team leader, and mentor. I have a reputation as a high performer. I have some degree of influence and power...without actually having authority. So, I am open about my autism with my co-workers...and for the most part, nothing has changed. However, why I am open is the fact that I am so sick and tired of decades of false impressions, mischaracterizations, and a false "moral diagnosis" from people around me...it is important for me to let them know I am not like them...and as such view me with another perspective and context.

It has helped, in terms of certain, repeatable comments on my annual peer reviews at work have subsided.

It has resulted in me no longer having contact with my parents and siblings. People I should be able to trust, but couldn't.

My wife and children do understand my autism...but on the other hand, they are quick to not allow it to be an "excuse" for certain behaviors. I receive no grace in that regard.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. This is a really painful part of my diagnosis -- feeling shame for having hidden under my (unconsciously-created) mask, but having done the best I could the whole time. And it's never been enough.

I was incredibly vindicated and happy for my diagnosis...for I was feeling shame for some of the people that I had hurt, for people that I so easily dropped from my life in an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" way, for all the money I spent on special interests when that money could have been spent more wisely for my wife and children. Now...I understand why I was and am who I am. Everyone has thought...hindsight being 20/20...that if given the opportunity to live certain events in their lives again, that things would be different. We all have those regrets. I know for some, pulling our consciousness out of the past...that rumination...is quite difficult. However, what has helped me is to understand the meaning of "water under the bridge" and be accountable for it. The past happened...it is what it is...I was responsible and accountable...the consequences are real...and now eyes forward. It is incredibly difficult driving the roads of life while our eyes are focused upon the rearview mirror. So, pull one's head out of our azz and look around. What do we want our lives to be in 5, 10, 20 years? There are things we have zero control over, but we are intelligent, adaptable creatures. Keep our eyes far out in front of us and plan for what is about to come.

 

[Grondhammar]

Yes! I can write a book on my innumerable experiences with this.

There are people in your inner circle, professionally and personally, you can be open with...that are intellectually curious...that can have some form of empathy and sympathy for our autistic experience. There are other people who you thought you could trust...and later found out that you can't...leaving you feeling rejected...but exposing their true nature so you can eliminate them from your life. There are people you definitely do not want to be open with...are in your life, but more or less a consequence of your environment that you'd rather avoid.

Personally, I am in a professional position of being a veteran of some 40 years within an organization of, overall, a group of intelligent, open-minded people. I am an educator, a team leader, and mentor. I have a reputation as a high performer. I have some degree of influence and power...without actually having authority. So, I am open about my autism with my co-workers...and for the most part, nothing has changed. However, why I am open is the fact that I am so sick and tired of decades of false impressions, mischaracterizations, and a false "moral diagnosis" from people around me...it is important for me to let them know I am not like them...and as such view me with another perspective and context.

It has helped, in terms of certain, repeatable comments on my annual peer reviews at work have subsided.

It has resulted in me no longer having contact with my parents and siblings. People I should be able to trust, but couldn't.

My wife and children do understand my autism...but on the other hand, they are quick to not allow it to be an "excuse" for certain behaviors. I receive no grace in that regard.

I was incredibly vindicated and happy for my diagnosis...for I was feeling shame for some of the people that I had hurt, for people that I so easily dropped from my life in an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" way, for all the money I spent on special interests when that money could have been spent more wisely for my wife and children. Now...I understand why I was and am who I am. Everyone has thought...hindsight being 20/20...that if given the opportunity to live certain events in their lives again, that things would be different. We all have those regrets. I know for some, pulling our consciousness out of the past...that rumination...is quite difficult. However, what has helped me is to understand the meaning of "water under the bridge" and be accountable for it. The past happened...it is what it is...I was responsible and accountable...the consequences are real...and now eyes forward. It is incredibly difficult driving the roads of life while our eyes are focused upon the rearview mirror. So, pull one's head out of our azz and look around. What do we want our lives to be in 5, 10, 20 years? There are things we have zero control over, but we are intelligent, adaptable creatures. Keep our eyes far out in front of us and plan for what is about to come.

This is a wonderful read, all of it.

The three groups you talked about sound very familiar, as does the false "moral diagnosis" from others. That one in particular I'm intimately familiar with.

I do wonder how you've done it - that is, let people know you're different from them. I've watched a few autistics on YouTube speaking about how to bring it up, and they tend to focus on characteristics (i.e. "I'm listening, but it might take me a little longer to process what you're saying" rather than "I'm autistic, give me a little extra time"). I guess whatever approach depends on the audience.

And I like that you tackled this head-on instead of hoping it'd resolve itself (and especially appreciated your last statements about looking at the future). I don't get stuck in the past much, but I do get stuck in the present a lot. It's easy for me to feel exhausted and overwhelmed currently, and feel like the future isn't somewhere I want to go. I'd like to change that.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I do wonder how you've done it - that is, let people know you're different from them. I've watched a few autistics on YouTube speaking about how to bring it up, and they tend to focus on characteristics (i.e. "I'm listening, but it might take me a little longer to process what you're saying" rather than "I'm autistic, give me a little extra time"). I guess whatever approach depends on the audience.

Rule #1: Do not take yourself too seriously when you have your "autistic moments". Learn to laugh at yourself in front of others...it really removes the awkwardness. I am nearly 60 and I will sometimes refer to myself as "the autistic kid" at certain moments...just for laughs.

The alternative being, you retreat in embarrassment and people talk behind your back. It puts you in a subordinate position.

That's not me. Get out in front of it with humor. It's about positioning the situation in such a manner that they can't make fun of you, bully you, hold things against you...it just sucks the wind out of the sails of those who just might have the intent to undermine you. It lets them know, you are in control...not them. It puts you in a dominant position.

 

[Aspychata]

Humor has also been my go-to. I also see the absurdity of so many situations involving me, and not me. It doesn't matter if you are NT or ND, life is filled with irony, and stupidity many times over, so l don't feel a need to disclose my personal makeup to others. I don't really feel shame, because l believe it's a useless emotion. I had someone tell me my status in life would only lower their status in the eyes of those around them. I looked at the very high value people around me, and decided l am lucky with who l know, and decided their insecurities aren't going to hold me back, their life is very much shame based, and probably pushed them to achieve where they stand today,and there isn't anything wrong with that, but don't push your shame base fears on me, as l don't live my life that way. So l refuse to feel less then just because l may be ASD.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Humor has also been my go-to. I also see the absurdity of so many situations involving me, and not me. It doesn't matter if you are NT or ND, life is filled with irony, and stupidity many times over, so l don't feel a need to disclose my personal makeup to others. I don't really feel shame, because l believe it's a useless emotion. I had someone tell me my status in life would only lower their status in the eyes of those around them. I looked at the very high value people around me, and decided l am lucky with who l know, and decided their insecurities aren't going to hold me back, their life is very much shame based, and probably pushed them to achieve where they stand today,and there isn't anything wrong with that, but don't push your shame base fears on me, as l don't live my life that way. So l refuse to feel less then just because l may be ASD.

True, that. Growing up I had little shame and then puberty hit and all the social involvement that it created. That is when I began to feel ashamed of myself because I could see that I was different but could not articulate that difference. Slowly I developed my own agency, which was lacking as a shy, inexperienced guy. Happily I had parents who trained me be to be independent and success at this helped me fight my way to sufficient emotional and social maturity.

 

[stevens]

Instead I will ask: if you are someone who has entered a "love" relationship without knowing you're autistic, and discovered it later:

1) did you experience labelling/negative namecalling/accusation because of your symptoms? i.e. did the expectation you're NT lead to negativity?

2) how did you resolve this? (if at all)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. This is a really painful part of my diagnosis -- feeling shame for having hidden under my (unconsciously-created) mask, but having done the best I could the whole time. And it's never been enough.

I've been married for many years (decades). I've known I was "weird" since I was around 13 years old. At that time, autism and, especially, "Aspergers Syndrome" was not a thing.

Perhaps there was an expectation of normality (NT type "normality") in the relationship from time to time. Generally though, the place where this happened was everywhere else. I discovered the existence of Aspergers Syndrome about the time it started to be more frequently diagnosed in the US, in the 1990's. It didn't take me long to figure out that autism was likely the source of my weirdness, which by that time was a feature that I knew wasn't likely to change. It would be 30 more years until I got actually diagnosed, but the word "Aspergers" was often heard at our house long before that finally happened.

How did I resolve it? I didn't. I was lucky the find a relationship that didn't implode. Where being weird was at least partly not a bug but a feature. There are many, many other relationships in my life that didn't work out. I talk with none of my relatives these days. I think my weirdness as a kid was enough for them, and has been for the past 50 years. And then there was the work world, which would be too involved to write about here. By the way, when I write "weird" what I mean is having responses or reactions that typical people find "inappropriate" sometimes.

What I'd suggest is try some in-person counseling with an autism-aware therapist, if you can with the other person. It could always be that the other person is not willing to adjust expectations to align with what is possible, and not possible. I'm sorry. We're not that often in a position to overcome our social disabilities--you may need different kinds of people.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

even on Reddit and other forums or just comments i see on social media elsewhere, it just naturally comes with the territory, that is, guys, men, on the autism spectrum have a high rate of reaching later 20s or just 30 plus and older without ever having been in a relationship before or are still virgins, it just comes with the territory.

Even this new study was posted:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2418257122

 

[the_tortoise]

1) did you experience labelling/negative namecalling/accusation because of your symptoms? i.e. did the expectation you're NT lead to negativity?

I have not had many such relationships -- only 4. But in 2 of those relationships, absolutely yes. (The other two relationships were with other ND people and these problems did not exist.)

Although, it was also the opinion of family and friends that one of these 2 people with whom autistic differences seemed to create issues, their opinion was that she was abusive to me, so....my experience may not really apply with her.

The two biggest issues I am certain were at least worsened by my autistic traits in the relationship with the person that in retrospect I think may have been abusive were communication and my need for downtime and alone time.

The only autism thing that caused problems in the other relationship was communication. I was actually not sure if we were even in a relationship at times...and once when I thought he had ended it, he apparently had not, and my moving on is what actually ended it...finally there was sort-of communication...and he was hurt, and I could not forgive myself for years....

Eventually I did forgive myself, because I had very explicitly asked during uncertain times before moving on:

Were still dating?
And if so, were we monogamous? Open/casual/polyamorous? Friend with benefits??? What were the expectations? I made it very clear I needed to talk, that I didnt understand...But literal silence was the only response....or abruptly changing the subject....

Apparently we were monogamous, and still a couple... when I thought we were nothing anymore based on his behaviour towards me and other people he found attractive, plus non-communication I eventually thought I was supposed to take as rejection....was very confusing and I felt bad for a long time....

2) how did you resolve this? (if at all)

Didn't resolve it...but we were fundamentally incompatible people, in retrospect. And I think they maybe had their own issues that made us even more incompatible...

 

[the_tortoise]

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. This is a really painful part of my diagnosis -- feeling shame for having hidden under my (unconsciously-created) mask, but having done the best I could the whole time. And it's never been enough.

I think that is (or should be, to some degree at least) a forgiveable thing...about masking.

A lot of autistic people grow up with (actually many live entire lives with) the idea that we are nothing, worthless, as we are...

That to be loved we need to hide the things about ourselves that other do not like...

Or that to be good people, or good partners, we have to hide or suppress these things...

And not knowing that the hiding and suppression isnt normal, let alone that it is not sustainable...

It is a bit like making a promise you cannot keep -- but at the time you make it, you do not know that, and fully intend to keep it and are confident you can. In your mind and heart you truly believe (or have convinced yourself...of have been convinced despite whatever doubts you may secretly have) that you absolutely can and will keep it. You do not mean to break the promise...it is out of your hands. Not all broken promises are broken as a choice.

Masking or trying to do the things you think you have to, or mimicking/echoing (as I did) without knowing there is deeper or completely different (to whatever you thought) meaning to what you copy, it is not the same as a lie...it is not fraud; It is trying to participate and connect.

I had similar feelings, although in deep friendships, even though I did not do a lot of conscious masking (very very little) when I first started to realize the IMMENSE differences between myself and literally everyone around me...one of the most painful things, biggest fears, was:

What if, if I ever even succeed at showing these people whom I cherish, all the differences they cannot see (I never did succeed...but I tried my best) what if they hate the real me?

Worse, what if they feel decieved? What if they think I have lied to them on purpose, rather than having never understood before how different I am, and being completely unable to even tell anyone?

The guilt and shame destroyed me, and contributed to the end of those beautiful relationships because I sort of just ran away, when life took me thousands of miles away physically...I truly did not know what it meant to "keep in touch" what I was and was not allowed or expected to share, how often to connect (I was so lost and had had so many people hate me and think I hated them because of not enough contact or too much...and without proximity I had no nonverbal cues to tell anything about if I was doing something wrong or right) and my life was just more and more awful when I had to go live with my abusive father...,and I had been taught my entire life that nobody wants to hear the bad, and that I was worthless if not happy and if consumed with pain....

Please don't feel bad. It is not your fault that society tells us our true selves are wrong, teaches us from childhood we should try to be anything but who we really are. It is not our fault when we do not understand our own differences, and so cannot show them to or talk about them with anyone. It is not our fault when we are forced to conform and convinced that is what literally everyone will always want.

It is not the same as fraudulently manipulating someone.

 

[Grondhammar]

Thanks for this @the_tortoise. I read through it yesterday and my brain was grinding on it today, slowly as usual.

I recognise a lot of what you expressed. The part about communication certainly sounded familiar. Since my diagnosis I've met a few autists IRL, and many here, and there's not the roadblocks and the backflips and emotional hoops to jump through. It's so freeing! I'm just astonished by how simple communication is in an autist <-> autist setting. I really appreciate your description of that time. It confirms some things I've been pondering on.

And, the end of anything you could call friendship came pretty early for me. I had acquaintances in high school and college, but no one I could really call a friend. Even though I had no idea about autism and was really good at masking, and people thought of me as "likeable", I still must have given off a vibe that my most recent therapist termed "something a little off about you" (which, we finally determined, was long-masked autism). All that time, I just figured I wasn't an interesting enough person to have friends.

Anyway, thanks for your encouragement. I'm working out of the feeling-bad phase. It's really helpful to hear your story, and others, and recognise that there's pain but also at least clarity (if not joy) that can come from being real.