Learning to use a facade

[Beverly]

This is something DJ and I were discussing. he is an Aspie and, a performing musician as well so, though he's a lot younger than I am, he has had much of the guidance and training I have had.

We have had PR people and other handlers teach us how to socializes properly and effectively, giving us the ability to do so with confidence. In essence, we have learned to overcome our lack of social skills through learning. Socializing my not be natural for us, but we do so easily and, do not make any serious mistakes and, few small mistakes. We know how to cover or make a joke of small mistakes, we know what most metaphors mean and, can quickly figure out new ones we have not heard before. We can put on a façade and, appear to be NT in any social situation.

The question we were asking ourselves is why other Aspies at approximately the same level of cognition and functioning as us but, not a part of the entertainment or modeling industry rarely learn what we have learned and, if offering such education and training as well as providing opportunities for those Aspies to use the skills they learn would give many more of us the ability and confidence to socialize well? Also would other, non celebrity Aspies be interested in this type of education, training and, experience and, would they truly benefit from it as much as we have?

I, and I on behalf of DJ as well would like to hear your opinions. If the consensus is that it would help a good many of us, then DJ and I will use our connections and resources to begin the process of making such education, training and experience more widely available.

Do you think you would truly benefit from this?
How would it help you in day to day life?
Would it help you in your work environment or, help you get a job and, if so, how?
What areas specifically would you like the information presented to focus on.
Do you think that, if you had this education and guided experience, you would be able to use it, almost as second nature in time?
How do you think socializing more often would affect you, assuming you understood the cues and, could do it well?

 

[N64boy96]

It's not an identity problem but when I was little I had an imaginary friend named Cody. He was interesting, put his feet on tables, awesome with girls; basically everything I wasn't. When imaginary friends weren't cool anymore I adopted him as an alter ego. Though I couldn't mimic everything he did I did try so hard to be him. I did adopt him as a stage name with Griffin at the end of it

 

[Progster]

I think that courses for adults on the spectrum intructing them on how to handle various business situations would be very useful, not just for the entertainment business, but for business in general. Things like how to conduct oneself in interviews, or business lunches, social events, etc. It would give the person more confidence if they had been given such instruction. One also needs to address such issues as anxiety, and how to appear confident and be assertive.

Some of the more advanced EFL books I use to tutor students in the English language may be of use to Aspies too, as they contain scripts for both social and business situations and give such advice, and often focus on the subtleties of the language.

 

[Beverly]

I agree, dealing with high stress, high anxiety socializing on a professional level would help almost anyone, Aspies more than others because I think most do or would seriously struggle in those situation, as I once did.

It is never easy appearing confident, assertive, knowledgeable and polite when you also have to defend your rights, promote yourself and, negotiate any sort of arrangement or deal that affects your livelihood. That's high stress for anyone and, very much a part of any successful career. Even asking for a raise is stress inducing.

 

[N64boy96]

I just found out that if you're interesting people come to you and initiate conversation and then basically the balls in your court do what you will with it and what's more interesting than a guy with a guitar singing a song no ones ever heard cuz it's his own

 

[Beverly]

I just found out that if you're interesting people come to you and initiate conversation and then basically the balls in your court do what you will with it and what's more interesting than a guy with a guitar singing a song no ones ever heard cuz it's his own

Very true. in that scenario many on the spectrum would struggle with how to respond once someone initiated conversation with them. I know I used to wonder if the compliments were genuine or they were just fishing for a moment in the spotlight, or my attention just because I am female and they were male, etc... my mind would race with a thousand questions, trying to analyze every detail of the introduction they gave and, I would end up not responding at all before they walked away. my handlers taught me how to respond and, to initially accept what they said at face value and respond to that, even if my mind was still trying to decide their motivations, if it was true, just being polite, etc... I was also taught the correct phrases to use so that I didn't give too much information, unintentionally insult anyone or misstep in other ways.

 

[N64boy96]

I was that way now I'm just like go with it dude you're not going to merry them. Dude with a guitar did get one girl and got laid at 17 or he'd still be a virgin now which apparently isn't as good as it used to be

 

[clg114]

This is something DJ and I were discussing. he is an Aspie and, a performing musician as well so, though he's a lot younger than I am, he has had much of the guidance and training I have had.

We have had PR people and other handlers teach us how to socializes properly and effectively, giving us the ability to do so with confidence. In essence, we have learned to overcome our lack of social skills through learning. Socializing my not be natural for us, but we do so easily and, do not make any serious mistakes and, few small mistakes. We know how to cover or make a joke of small mistakes, we know what most metaphors mean and, can quickly figure out new ones we have not heard before. We can put on a façade and, appear to be NT in any social situation.

The question we were asking ourselves is why other Aspies at approximately the same level of cognition and functioning as us but, not a part of the entertainment or modeling industry rarely learn what we have learned and, if offering such education and training as well as providing opportunities for those Aspies to use the skills they learn would give many more of us the ability and confidence to socialize well? Also would other, non celebrity Aspies be interested in this type of education, training and, experience and, would they truly benefit from it as much as we have?

I, and I on behalf of DJ as well would like to hear your opinions. If the consensus is that it would help a good many of us, then DJ and I will use our connections and resources to begin the process of making such education, training and experience more widely available.

Do you think you would truly benefit from this?
How would it help you in day to day life?
Would it help you in your work environment or, help you get a job and, if so, how?
What areas specifically would you like the information presented to focus on.
Do you think that, if you had this education and guided experience, you would be able to use it, almost as second nature in time?
How do you think socializing more often would affect you, assuming you understood the cues and, could do it well?

I too have learned the NT ways and it only took me seventy years. Fifty years ago I would have loved training like that, what difference that would have made in my life! I think this is excellent idea for adult Aspies. I have long thought that Aspie kids should have the proper counseling at a young age. I believe that this would help children to better cope with weakness's and more importantly, take advantage of their considerable strengths.

 

[FreeDiver]

The OP forgot to bring up one very important thing. Social interaction is "two-way", "two-sided" thing. Both parties are emotionally reinforcing each other. It's a give and take game for "both" parties. That said. One of the biggest problems with doing the so-called "facade" thing, is that you can only do it for so long before it starts to break down, and the other party finds out. It like telling a lie. Eventually, it's gonna catch up with you. Plus, you don't have the emotional support that you "should" be getting from the other party. Eventually, this all give and no take will start to take an emotional toll on you.

As I was saying in another post. It's not about putting on a show. It's about connecting emotionally with each other. If I see a smile on another face. I know "knowledge wise." That that person must be happy. But it doesn't make me feel happy emotionally. This is one of the reason why I think that NT's fake smiles. It's because they know that when they smile. It's going to make others around them feel happy, emotionally. And smile back. Reinforcing the social bond.

One of the unfortunate realities of being an aspie, is that we cannot "emotionally" communicate with anyone and that's where the problem with socializing lies.

 

[Beverly]

Good point FreeDiver but, that does not mean we cannot learn the meaning and intention of emotional communication, especially non verbal cues to emotions. Just because we do not share the emotion over the event does not me we do not know what that emotion feels like. Understanding what the cues mean helps us know intellectually what the other person might be feeling, even though we do not share that feeling at the moment.

We can also learn what sorts of things, in general, tend to elicit various emotions, how to use inflection in our voice to convey the emotions we want others to feel, when to smile, what is generally considered funny, when it's okay to chuckle if someone falls and when that isn't okay, etc... With the right guidance and, opportunities to learn, with a guide that knows, we can learn to see the difference between someone faking an injury or accident to get a laugh and that person actually being hurt or making a mistake, for example.

DJ and I think that at least 50% of the general Aspie socializing difficulties are due to lack of available information and opportunities. He and I both had those teacher, were given that information and, ample opportunities to practice what we learned. Neither of us feel socially impaired at all now and, both of us routinely socialize with every race, class and gender of people, superiors, colleagues, friends, strangers, anyone you could imagine and, we are at ease doing it because we know what to expect and what is expected of us. It is and always will be draining, tiring for us but, it is not pushing us toward shutdowns, meltdowns, anxiety attacks and the like. If there is a way to give that gift to more Aspies, then we need to find it and, make it happen.

And yes, not getting stressed out and, not making a fool of yourself when socializing is a gift, understanding what is going on on all levels socially is a gift, even if it is because of learned information, memorizing and we do have to think it all out. With practice we learn to do it faster and faster until one day, it's almost second nature to do it right. We aren't stupid, we can learn and, maybe that's all a lot of us need is the chance to learn and practice what we learn as we learn it. Just maybe Asking for that raise, going to that job interview, that audition, giving that presentation, being the honoree at a banquet, earning that award and having to give a speech doesn't have to be so bad for so many of us.

 

[Naturalist]

I can appreciate this goal. I have a boss who helps me to recognise social cues, and it has been very informative. Plus, I used to study people a lot and mimicked their behavior; I obsessed over that, and learned to adapt my behavior based on the gestures and expressions others used. After 36 years, though, it's maybe less "learned behavior" and more "compulsion". For instance, adults were constantly telling me I needed to interact more. Now, I feel obligated to talk to others if they are present in the room, even if I would prefer to remain silent, and even if they don't feel compelled to interact. I learned well enough how to behave, that people are dismissive when I struggle, and tell me "what is wrong with you?" And when I reply, "stop making excuses. You manage well enough other times."

So it is a double-edged sword. I would like to make improvements, especially since I need to be able to improve my relationship with my husband and sell my talents and negotiate for better pay at work, but I also don't want to be told to "just deal" on the days I truly can't function. I want people to be able to accept, and maybe appreciate, that I'm not "normal" nor am I perfect. Even if I can be good at acting those roles for a short time, occasionally.

 

[Beverly]

Naturalist you are correct, it can be a double edged sword, especially if those closest to you do not know and understand. then even they will expect you to keep up the near flawless social behavior when you need to relax and just be yourself.

I know form personal experience that the more I socialize well and, even do so voluntarily, the more I am expected to do so but, that is where home and family or close friends come in, those people need to know and understand, and not expect the public socialite once you don't have to be that person. yes with learning the skills comes the need to learn how to inform others, whom to inform and, how to create your safe space with safe people.

We'd loose our true selves if we didn't have that, if we had to be the socializer all of the time.

 

[FreeDiver]

yes with learning the skills comes the need to learn how to inform others, whom to inform and, how to create your safe space with safe people.

How do you know when to trust someone to inform them of your limitations. I've done that in the past and have been burned badly for it.

We'd loose our true selves if we didn't have that, if we had to be the socializer all of the time.

NT's have both their cake and eat it too. What I mean is. They can socialize and be them selves at the same time. And that's my point about socializing. NT's enjoy socializing and enjoy the company of others. We as aspies are forced to make a choice, ether socialize and eventually burn out from overworking are mind, or be are selves and get bored from being isolated.

 

[Beverly]

FreeDiver A choice I know all too well but, social skills are mandatory if one wishes to succeed at all in this world.

I have discovered though that with practice and, time doing it, the burnout takes longer and longer to come and, I recover faster each time. I still need my down time and safe space but, it's nothing like it was for me when I was younger. I even host parties and socialize for pleasure on occasion now and, I actually like doing it.

Even if other never got to that point, being able to handle job interviews, break room socializing with co-workers, working as a part of a team, asking for a raise or selling yourself to get that promotion could help a lot of people do better in this world.

Understanding more of NT socializing also helps in relationships with NTs which is not uncommon for us.

We'd definitely have to teach personal energy management and, creating a safe place with safe people as well as social skills. I know it is incredibly hard for any Aspie, myself included, to find a balance that works but, it isn't impossible. I do it, I have been doing it for over 30 years and, I'm not totally fried out.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

A lot of this sounds like introversion.

http://introvertdear.com/2016/01/02/15-things-introverts-wish-you-understood-about-them/

What people are saying is similar to my parents. Except my parents are not autistic, they're just introverted. Neither of them go out to parties or social events or anything you're stereotyping NTs to do. They're introverted, meaning they find socialising draining. My mum describes the same draining feeling you are describing. But that doesn't make her autistic, there is a clear difference between me and her. While she may find acting (and yes NTs act and use facade) all day exhausting she is able to. While she may find office environments loud she is able to be in there.

And nobody has perfect social skills. Top political leaders and famous people are taught social skills. All of them. They are taught what body language to use, what words to say. But they're not autistic. Autism isn't social skills that aren't perfect. If it was everyone would be autistic.

Just because we do not share the emotion over the event does not me we do not know what that emotion feels like.

Well except 85% of us don't. Most of us have difficulty recognising our own emotions, let alone those of others. That's incredibly common with ASD so much that it's about the same percentage as sensory issues, which are now recognised as part of ASD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

 

[Naturalist]

A lot of this sounds like introversion.

http://introvertdear.com/2016/01/02/15-things-introverts-wish-you-understood-about-them/

What people are saying is similar to my parents. Except my parents are not autistic, they're just introverted. Neither of them go out to parties or social events or anything you're stereotyping NTs to do. They're introverted, meaning they find socialising draining. My mum describes the same draining feeling you are describing. But that doesn't make her autistic, there is a clear difference between me and her. While she may find acting (and yes NTs act and use facade) all day exhausting she is able to. While she may find office environments loud she is able to be in there.

And nobody has perfect social skills. Top political leaders and famous people are taught social skills. All of them. They are taught what body language to use, what words to say. But they're not autistic. Autism isn't social skills that aren't perfect. If it was everyone would be autistic.


Well except 85% of us don't. Most of us have difficulty recognising our own emotions, let alone those of others. That's incredibly common with ASD so much that it's about the same percentage as sensory issues, which are now recognised as part of ASD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

These are good things to consider. One of the reasons my boss has been able to teach me some social skills is, he's introverted but not autistic. So he deals with the same learned behavior and burnout that I do. The difference being, he can read others' moods better in social situations, can describe his own feelings in the moment, and his functioning isn't affected by sensory issues (except for hearing due to a physical condition). These three things really inhibit my own success acting socially. I once likened it to making a product on a factory assembly line, but being too slow. The raw materials are piling up on one side of me (input), and on the other side people are demanding the product (output), while I am in the middle struggling to put it all together to deliver to them.

Obviously, once some skills are practiced I would be able to supply the end product more quickly, and with greater quality. But three things will always hinder the process: my ability to gauge the emotions of others; my ability to identify my own emotions, and express them appropriately; and my ability to deal with other sensory issues, such as the lighting in the room, background noise, uncomfortable clothing, etc. These things can "throw a wrench in the gears," and the more psychological stress I have the more I am more affected by them, which causes added stress and even less functioning. So in addition to having friends who can act as "translators" (which I only have at work, and only from my boss who may retire soon), I need to find ways to regulate all these other difficulties, which can vary greatly from one situation to the next. Not always impossible, but as Unsure... pointed out, it's much more complex than just improving social skills.

 

[Beverly]

I'm not saying all of identify our own emotions well, but say I showed you a one minute video clip of a person's hands moving a certain way and, told you that if a person who is talking to you does that, they are nervous. You know what being nervous feels like, you might not know when you are nervous, but, you do know what I mean when I say someone is nervous. You'd know it if you had something specific you could visually see to tell you someone was nervous. You could memorize what visible signals mean the person doing those things is nervous and, then, you would know when somone speaking to you was nervous.

My brain doesn't always catch up with my heartfast enough either but, I still know what emotions feel like, even if I probably don't know it the instant I feel one myself. Still I have feelings, I do get there, just might not be so fast as NTs. Some thing are so close that I don't think distinguishing them matters all that much, like anticipation and excitement, feel the same to me.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

No I mean I literally have no idea what most things feel like. If you ask me how I'm feeling I'll genuinely have no idea. I know nervous because it's not an emotion, when I literally can't speak and I'm shaking then I can tell I'm nervous. But emotions I have no idea what they feel like, and then I'll not know what emotion I'm feeling because I don't know what emotions feel like. If that makes sense, probably not.