Learning to “read the room”

[Owliet]

Yeah, sometimes I think I can do this but obviously I’ve learnt the art of avoiding situations that are just not at the right time. Sometimes I get them wrong, and severely misjudge. It happened at work today, and I came in thinking to help by elevating and give reassurance in a different way but I should have just walked away in the first place. In short, I messed up today and need to consider developing strategies in approaching situations that may not be at the best of times.

 

[Alexej]

I find it quite hard to read a room, in the sense of knowing what is going on among a group of people between the lines.

 

[Binary_Bark]

This is something we on the spectrum have issues with.
Last year, I walked into a room, not really being able to read the room. Smiling, saying “Looks like someone died, what's going on”. Turned out, one in the group has just got the news that their mother has passed.

 

[LadyS]

Do you observe first before speaking up? I've realized now that sometimes comments are not always warranted and staying silent and quietly observing works well with me. I've also figured out which people appreciate more out-of-the-box thinking and which ones expect more canned responses. Though that can also be a painstaking process through trial and error.

 

[Luca]

I have a hard time with this too.
I have 3 modes when I walk into a room of people, and it’s not predictable which one you will get:

1.) Completely shut down

2.) Say something stupid

3.) Panic attack

 

[Magna]

Part of it for me is not "reading the room" well and the other part of it is not wanting to be there so my level of caring about it is less than it could be.

 

[Binary_Bark]

@crewlucaa_
60% = 1)
5% = 2)
35% = 3)

 

[Suzette]

This is something we on the spectrum have issues with.
Last year, I walked into a room, not really being able to read the room. Smiling, saying “Looks like someone died, what's going on”. Turned out, one in the group has just got the news that their mother has passed.

I would have said "I am sorry. I don't mean to seem insensative. It appears my intuition is working better than thought."

That would make everything worse. There is a reason I am not more popular!

 

[Luca]

I would have said "I am sorry. I don't mean to seem insensative. It appears my intuition is working better than thought."

That’s something I might say as a joke, which would be equally a disaster and still make everyone mad

 

[Magna]

Do you observe first before speaking up? I've realized now that sometimes comments are not always warranted and staying silent and quietly observing works well with me. I've also figured out which people appreciate more out-of-the-box thinking and which ones expect more canned responses. Though that can also be a painstaking process through trial and error.

I was raised from childhood with this same approach (ie talk very little and observe). My mother said countless times: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." That was "drilled" into me. Why did she say that? Partly to teach simple manners. But also because I had less of a "filter" than many other people. It's well known that many autistic people don't, can't, won't "filter" what they say.

Is it good that I generally keep my mouth shut? It does eliminate me saying things that can be misinterpreted as being rude, offensive or inappropriate. However, the thoughts/ideas/questions/comments are still absolutely there in my mind. Keeping my mouth shut is like suppressing a stim or a tic. It's at times very difficult and unpleasant for me. It's most definitely a form of masking.

Is it good that I generally keep my mouth shut? It's good for the others in the room I would guess. It's oftentimes bad to even horrible for me. I feel stifled, muzzled. In fact the more I think about it I actually hate it.

 

[LadyS]

I was raised from childhood with this same approach (ie talk very little and observe). My mother said countless times: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." That was "drilled" into me. Why did she say that? Partly to teach simple manners. But also because I had less of a "filter" than many other people. It's well known that many autistic people don't, can't, won't "filter" what they say.

Is it good that I generally keep my mouth shut? It does eliminate me saying things that can be misinterpreted as being rude, offensive or inappropriate. However, the thoughts/ideas/questions/comments are still absolutely there in my mind. Keeping my mouth shut is like suppressing a stim or a tic. It's at times very difficult and unpleasant for me. It's most definitely a form of masking.

Is it good that I generally keep my mouth shut? It's good for the others in the room I would guess. It's oftentimes bad to even horrible for me. I feel stifled, muzzled. In fact the more I think about it I actually hate it.

One thing I realized is that each decision to speak has a consequence attached: I can just blurt out whatever is on my mind at that moment because I can't keep it in but then I would have to live with the consequences of it which is usually regret. And then I'll go painstakingly over and over again in my head, even months later about how i should've kept my mouth shut.

Or I can hold it in, suffer a temporary pain and then let the conversation lead away from my original thoughts until they don't really matter any more. I've realized the latter pain is much more bearable, especially if it's about something trivial and unremarkable. Now if it's about a serious matter, and later on it is still bothers me that it has to be said, then I'll definitely say it (or at least try to, I'm still working on this). Those kinds of things stick. Some things are worth speaking up about and some can out slide. But that's just me.

 

[Alexej]

I was raised from childhood with this same approach (ie talk very little and observe).

This one reminds me of the aphorism, "It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

 

[Magna]

One thing I realized is that each decision to speak has a consequence attached: I can just blurt out whatever is on my mind at that moment because I can't keep it in but then I would have to live with the consequences of it which is usually regret. And then I'll go painstakingly over and over again in my head, even months later about how i should've kept my mouth shut.

Or I can hold it in, suffer a temporary pain and then let the conversation lead away from my original thoughts until they don't really matter any more. I've realized the latter pain is much more bearable, especially if it's about something trivial and unremarkable. Now if it's about a serious matter, and later on it is still bothers me that it has to be said, then I'll definitely say it. Those kinds of things stick. Some things are worth speaking up about and some can out slide. But that's just me.

There are definitely positives and negatives to both approaches (ie keeping quiet or saying what you want to say). I agree with you that the positive of keeping quiet is not offending. Negatives to keeping quiet also can include missing out on contributing to or even driving a meaningful, genuine and "real" conversation. What if, for example, the other person isn't actually offended by a direct question, bold statement or observation? It would never be known.

Other negatives? My internal narrative might go like this:

"I don't think like you/other people do. You can speak freely. I feel or have been trained that I can't. So when you all talk, I'll sit quietly. Is that my true nature? No. Would I like to communicate with you? Yes. I was trained that I would need to communicate by following "your" (NT, social conventions, etc) rules or not communicate at all. As such, that's how I've lived my entire life. Do I feel that I've missed out because of it? Yes. Ironically, my feelings are supposed to matter just as much as yours, but that's not how I was trained."

I actually admire most people who don't filter what they say. I'm even envious of them. The ones I don't admire are ones that are malicious and manipulative about it rather than being genuinely innocent.

Rather than being only temporarily uncomfortable by keeping quiet in the moment, I actually think it's a fundamentally damaging thing to a person.

How positive and healthy is the old adage: "Children should be seen and not heard."? Damaging.

 

[LadyS]

Negatives to keeping quiet also can include missing out on contributing to or even driving a meaningful, genuine and "real" conversation. What if, for example, the other person isn't actually offended by a direct question, bold statement or observation? It would never be known

I think I combine this with an earlier comment about knowing your audience. Will the person I speak up to readily and openly accept what I've said and allow me to contribute an out-of-the-box response or are they expecting something trite? This sometimes takes getting to know a person a little bit more (which may mean more quiet observation) before I'm confident to contribute something. Again trial and error can lead to the same conclusions though.

I can relate to the trained part however. I was also trained to hold my tongue, but more because of a patriarchal culture where it's frowned upon for women to speak their minds. And like you I envy those who just have the confidence to speak freely, but to an extent, as long as they're not malicious, vain, or grandstanding.

*edit .. it was this thread

 

[Owliet]

I was raised from childhood with this same approach (ie talk very little and observe). My mother said countless times: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." That was "drilled" into me. Why did she say that? Partly to teach simple manners. But also because I had less of a "filter" than many other people. It's well known that many autistic people don't, can't, won't "filter" what they say.

yes, I had this mantra driven into me too. I used to recite it like the rabbit from Bambi. It wasn’t just to teach manners but it was also to avoid any social mishaps. Like I experienced today or blurting out things that you think but shouldn’t say. Most people don’t get it and I had thought the best way to avoid oops movements were to stay away from it entirely but alas, not today. I apologized later, apparently it wasn’t a big deal but the reaction I got at the time said it was, so I feel extremely guilty and upset that I had messed up by doing this.

One thing I realized is that each decision to speak has a consequence attached: I can just blurt out whatever is on my mind at that moment because I can't keep it in but then I would have to live with the consequences of it which is usually regret. And then I'll go painstakingly over and over again in my head, even months later about how i should've kept my mouth shut.

Or I can hold it in, suffer a temporary pain and then let the conversation lead away from my original thoughts until they don't really matter any more. I've realized the latter pain is much more bearable, especially if it's about something trivial and unremarkable. Now if it's about a serious matter, and later on it is still bothers me that it has to be said, then I'll definitely say it. Those kinds of things stick. Some things are worth speaking up about and some can out slide. But that's just me.

I agree with this. Despite the training to not say anything, I do have my moments when I blurt stuff out. One time I asked a woman who was pregnant with her third child, who the father was as she had different men fathering her chilren. That did not go well, and despite trying to walk away from situations that other people either don’t get involved or handle it differently, I feel awful that I may have made it more difficult. I don’t mean to come across as callous, especially here. I thought I was helping in some form by going “don’t worry but here’s work anyway” at a time when there’s a medical emergency. I am an idiot. As for withholding blurting out, does it also make you feel anxious alongside the pressure to fight not blurting stuff out?

 

[Magna]

I don't want to dominate this thread, but I feel the need to add a few things to what I've said about being trained to be quiet rather than risk offending. The thoughts that I typically have and suppress are innocent or at least are not meant to be hurtful. In a room, say a meeting at work, thoughts that might come to mind for me that I suppress could include things like:

• "Do you dye your hair that color? Why?"
• "Why do you like going to Las Vegas for a vacation?"
• "Would a vacation be as enjoyable for you if alcohol wasn't involved? Is drinking a big part of why you go on your annual fishing trip?"
• "I have to say I don't like the smell of your perfume at all."
• "Could you talk quieter? You've got a really loud voice, laugh, etc."
• "What do you like about that TV show?"
• "No, I can't stand watching sports at all."
• "I think gambling is stupid. I feel that I work too hard for my money to risk gambling it away. Interestingly, I've found in my experience that it seems like many people who enjoy gambling are people who have government jobs. I've known too many to think it's a coincidence."
• "I haven't eaten fast food in years and I'm actually baffled that people who do regularly don't have more serious health problems."
• "From what I've read, Covid replicates more prevalently in adipose tissue (fat), so I think it's important to be as trim as possible for that reason among all the other well known reasons." (overweight person/people in the room).
• "I have to say these obligatory meetings with outside sales reps are among my least favorite thing to do in life. I absolutely hate those kinds of meetings and don't like meetings in general."
• "Not to be offensive or to embarrass you, but when you lean forward people can see your bra. I don't know if you knew that or not." Or to a man: "Not to embarrass you, but your fly is open and people can see your underwear."
• "I'm very particular about food preparation and I don't know how you prepared this food you brought in. That's the reason I'm not eating any of what you brought. I'd be interested in hearing about your methods and depending on your methods, I might change my mind and eat some of what you made...or not."

I could go on, but those are the kinds of things I filter. Should I? Are they horribly offensive? Should a person make any possibility of offending someone paramount in their life or should people learn how to express their negative reaction to certain things and/or "grow a thicker skin"?

 

[Owliet]

I don't want to dominate this thread, but I feel the need to add a few things to what I've said about being trained to be quiet rather than risk offending. The thoughts that I typically have and suppress are innocent or at least are not meant to be hurtful. In a room, say a meeting at work, thoughts that might come to mind for me that I suppress could include things like:

• "Do you dye your hair that color? Why?"
• "Why do you like going to Las Vegas for a vacation?"
• "Would a vacation be as enjoyable for you if alcohol wasn't involved? Is drinking a big part of why you go on your annual fishing trip?"
• "I have to say I don't like the smell of your perfume at all."
• "Could you talk quieter? You've got a really loud voice, laugh, etc."
• "What do you like about that TV show?"
• "No, I can't stand watching sports at all."
• "I think gambling is stupid. I feel that I work too hard for my money to risk gambling it away. Interestingly, I've found in my experience that it seems like many people who enjoy gambling are people who have government jobs. I've known too many to think it's a coincidence."
• "I haven't eaten fast food in years and I'm actually baffled that people who do regularly don't have more serious health problems."
• "From what I've read, Covid replicates more prevalently in adipose tissue (fat), so I think it's important to be as trim as possible for that reason among all the other." (overweight person/people in the room).
• "I have to say these obligatory meetings with outside sales reps are among my least favorite thing to do in life. I absolutely hate those kinds of meetings and don't like meetings in general."

I could go on, but those are the kinds of things I filter. Should I? Are they horribly offensive? Should a person make any possibility of offending someone paramount in their life or should people learn how to express their negative reaction to certain things and/or "grow a thicker skin"?

Please, post however you wish. You’re not dominating it at all. It’s helpful for me to see this as I’m currently going through my thoughts on how i could have done it differently, a lot of guilt and oh no I messed up, and mentally kicking myself on loop. Hence why I posted the thread. I feel extremely overwhelmed by it.

 

[LadyS]

As for withholding blurting out, does it also make you feel anxious alongside the pressure to fight not blurting stuff out?

In the beginning of my little experiment, most definitely! Thought my brain would explode. I'd start sweating and heart racing. But then over time I saw that I was getting better responses than before, people who used to ignore what I said started listening when i did speak up, etc. So doing that became easier over time because of the positive feedback. And then learning to let certain things that didn't affect me directly go. That helped too. But that was just me.

 

[Owliet]

That reminds me of something my mother said to me, "Hvis du ikke har noe positivt å si, så ikke si noe". And that means "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Our mothers gave us good advice I think.

Owliet, I have done the same mistake as you before. More than once. I tried to help or tried to do something and it did not work as I thought it would. It happens unfortunately but at least we learn something from it.

funny how that saying is universal,...

yeah, you’re right p. I’m just in the phase of I can’t believe I did that, and my usual loop of disappointment in myself obviously, I can’t turn back time and I learn from this now but I almost cried at work today because of it and the processing realization that it wasn’t a good time may not have been a good idea. I want so badly to do a good job, that anything that can be construed as not...makes me feellike how I am currently.. It’s so complex.

 

[LadyS]

Partially why I'm grateful for forums like this where we can all have a blurt fest together and then edit the crap out of our threads *sarcasm* (*maybe*).