Jealousy leading to cold and innapropriate behavior

[fullmind]

My aspie is jealous.....I don't think absurdly so, but it can bet him bogged down.
Recently a friend was in town to do the chaplain service for my mother's funeral. I had a relationship with this man almost twenty years ago for a short time. Our intimate relationship did not continue past two years, but a strong friendship did.
My boyfriend, with whom I have talked about this with, came to the memorial service and proceeded to act aloof, cold, unresponsive, and downright rude to me the whole time. It would have been the first time I introduced him to my family, but he made himself scarce and I hardly saw him at all. Every time I sought him out, he would tell me he felt uncomfortable because of the past relationship I had with my friend, the chaplain. I asked him if it was exasperated by the gathering (lots of people, stimuli, etc.). He said no....it was the discomfort as a result of my relationship from 20 years ago. He couldn't be there for me in support when I was grieving, even sitting with me when I was so exhausted from the service.

The first problem is the jealousy. This I can understand, at least in an abstract sense. I think it is irrational, as any relationship from 20 years ago is not even on my spectrum. Plus, I never ever behave in a way that is not trustworthy. But I have been jealous before so at least I can relate to the emotion.

But the second problem, is the totally inappropriate and downright embarrassing behavior at a very important moment when naturally I would want him to be there for me and not in his own head, bristling with discomfort every time I approach him.

Herein lies the main problem: Whenever I call him on what I perceive as inappropriate behavior, he pulls the aspie card. He says that I "don't understand" and "he can't help it". He was downright rude and cold to me at the service and it really hurt my feelings. It was embarrassing in front of my family, and I am concerned that I may not even be able to depend on him to be supportive in the future.

 

[Misanthrope]

he sounds like an ass hole, 100%
people sometimes think the AS exempts someone from being an ass, but it doesn't
not everyone with AS is a good person, being jealous for a relationship from 20 years back... is insane.
I'd get rid of him, things like this just get worse, the more room you give him to use the aspie card

 

[Judge]

Herein lies the main problem: Whenever I call him on what I perceive as inappropriate behavior, he pulls the aspie card. He says that I "don't understand" and "he can't help it". He was downright rude and cold to me at the service and it really hurt my feelings. It was embarrassing in front of my family, and I am concerned that I may not even be able to depend on him to be supportive in the future.

I'd think a good relationship between an Aspie and a Neurotypical would mean the Aspie takes polite queues from the NT and adjusts accordingly. There are mistakes I make with Neurotypicals that I'll never really understand. However I can rationalize it enough to know I have to adapt enough not to make the same mistake over and over. I just wish I had that "special someone" there who cared enough for me to provide such queues out of love and not contempt. But my response is based on my degree of autism. Manifesting love and empathy don't come easy to me, but they are things I work at, and am willing to do so.

Those further along the autistic spectrum I can't honestly speak for. I've only learned of my own autism recently....and at my age it's just too late to go around blaming everything I say or do on my neurological situation. I just have to cope...not cop-out.

Yeah, maybe the guy is just being an ass. He can still take queues, whether his heart is there or not. And if he says otherwise, maybe that's your queue to find someone else.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Many Aspies are less likely to experience jealousy. Some of us, from what I've heard, have difficulty even understanding jealousy (myself included. I can be jealous when someone's in a relationship with someone else, but can't understand being jealous if the person is actually in a relationship with me)
If he had been overwhelmed from all the people, that could have been because of his AS, but if it was jealousy, that was more of his personal thing.
Another weird thing is...if he was jealous, wouldn't his natural response have been to stay with you every moment? Isn't that the more jealous thing to do? In order to "guard" you from the other guy?
However, it could be that it wasn't really jealousy. It could be that he was having trouble processing/interpreting his feelings, and really was having trouble dealing with/knowing how to respond to your grief, but interpreted his discomfort as jealousy.
That's speculation, since I don't know him. You know him better and can better evaluate whether that is possible.
But whatever the real reason, whether jealousy or discomfort, it does give one pause.
If it is jealousy, you have to ask yourself "Am I okay with someone who is so possessive?"
If it was actually secretly discomfort at your grief, you will definitely have to ask yourself "Am I okay with someone who's instinct will be to withdraw when things get tough?"
It's something you'll need to really think about.:unsure:

 

[Sparticus]

Men have feelings too.

 

[Ste11aeres]

It is also possible that he doesn't really realize how important it is/was to you to have him physically with you when you are grieving. How does he act when he is grieving? Does he want you with him? Or does he go off by himself to be alone? If the latter, it could be that he tends to think grieving people want to be given space, that they want to be left alone.
Again, this is speculation since I don't know him.

 

[fullmind]

Misanthrope, you stated my fears exactly. What the hell is jealousy doing at a funeral anyway? I so appreciate your feedback. Are you an aspie? If so, thank you for being honest.
I must add, that when my partner tells me about how asperger manifests itself for him, there are many ways in which I can relate it to something I have experienced in the past....so I am sympathetic. Even the stimuli/sound/people overload that may have been present for him at the funeral. But then again, there are symptoms he describes that are a mystery for me so I keep an open mind. But sometimes, like this example, I have to wonder how the hell it relates to Asperger...and if so....gee, no wonder he has had a difficult time all his life. But he has mentioned that during times of stress, sometimes he does not know how to act and cannot speak. Isn't withdrawing an aspie tendency?
I ask because Ste11aeres tells me i should ask myself: ""Am I okay with someone who's instinct will be to withdraw when things get tough?"
Hmmm.....your responses make me think. I tell you what.........I'm going to give you his phone number and YOU call him and 'call' him on his aspie card.

How does he act when he is grieving? Does he want you with him? Or does he go off by himself to be alone? If the latter, it could be that he tends to think grieving people want to be given space, that they want to be left alone.
Again, this is speculation since I don't know him.

Actually, I have not known him yet when he has been grieving.

 

[Judge]

If it was actually secretly discomfort at your grief, you will definitely have to ask yourself "Am I okay with someone who's instinct will be to withdraw when things get tough?"
It's something you'll need to really think about.:unsure:

That's very insightful in MY case. That "OMG" kind of insight.

Things got very tough for me one day, and I kept it to myself. I withdrew one Christmas day largely out of grief for my father, who died only days before Christmas. In my heart, it made every Christmas nearly unbearable. So it made each and every Christmas very difficult just to get through, "faking it" all the way.

That withdrawal and inability to "fake it" on that particular day cost me a relationship. Maybe the most precious I ever had. But it was still my own fault. At least your post gives me greater insight about what really happened on that day. Thank you so much.

Do I personally handle grief well? OMG...NO. Not mine....or anyone elses. How it may look to others, I'm not sure.

I can only wonder if fullmind's b/f has had such a loss he may not be willing to discuss. Just wondering...

 

[Peace]

First "Fullmind", let me say that I am an Aspie.
I have learned that it is impossible to understand the feelings, or the depth of feelings that another experiences. What you described does sound like it fits into the world of being an Aspie, however this does not excuse any behavior, only possibly explain it.
For me, if I may, I would be more focused on how he works together as a partner. Even in times of failure, does he try? Is there an effort to work on things to find a comfortable compromise? Is there any effort to understand your feelings?
These are things, not of an Aspie, but of one who does not display the necessary skills to take part in a healthy relationship. Just because we have Aspergers does not mean we cannot work to share and grow in a relationship with others. It typically just means that it is much more difficult for us.
There is a difference between Aspie traits, and personality traits.

 

[fullmind]

First "Fullmind", let me say that I am an Aspie.
I have learned that it is impossible to understand the feelings, or the depth of feelings that another experiences. What you described does sound like it fits into the world of being an Aspie, however this does not excuse any behavior, only possibly explain it.
For me, if I may, I would be more focused on how he works together as a partner. Even in times of failure, does he try? Is there an effort to work on things to find a comfortable compromise? Is there any effort to understand your feelings?
These are things, not of an Aspie, but of one who does not display the necessary skills to take part in a healthy relationship. Just because we have Aspergers does not mean we cannot work to share and grow in a relationship with others. It typically just means that it is much more difficult for us.
There is a difference between Aspie traits, and personality traits.

Peace, yes he does try. Often I don't notice, because the efforts while big on his part, are not noticed by me until afterward. It is not easy for him. At the same time, I am not going to blindly assume all of his 'moments' are Asperger-related. But I do believe that non-related personality difficulties are further accentuated by Aspergers.

The funeral weekend for example: B/f showed up to do a test-run on the memorial slide show (risking the stereotype, he of course he handles all of the computer/tech stuff) and the aloofness begun with myself and my clergy friend whom he had never met before. He acted like some kind of consultant coming in and 'getting a job done'. i have been with this man for a year now, mind you. My very kind friend said to me afterward, "Does he always act like that?" Concerned!
Anyway, to make my point....my b/f stayed up very late that night perfecting the slide show, and then got up early the next morning to make home-made bran muffins and home-made slaw to bring with him. So he does try. Doing those things were how he could show his desire to be present without being able to do it emotionally I suppose. And I can see that. That was nice.
But I tell you what, a shoulder to lean on during my mom's funeral WAY outweighs some bran muffins.

Here is an honest fear.and let me know if I am being an insensitive asshole: Am I looking at a life of having to be the strong person here and always making excuses for my aspie because he just can't handle that which is outside of his comfort zone? I am a very trustworthy person and also very independent. I don't want to have to be afraid that whenever I am not attached to him at the hip, that he is going to withdraw and become uncommunicative. I an totally good with the every day kind of ritual things and carrying the conversation in a social setting, and the super-focused interests, etc. I really enjoy him the way he is in those ways. But if I cannot depend on him emotionally, that would be a pretty lonely place to be.

 

[Judge]

I don't want to have to be afraid that whenever I am not attached to him at the hip, that he is going to withdraw and become uncommunicative. I an totally good with the every day kind of ritual things and carrying the conversation in a social setting, and the super-focused interests, etc. I really enjoy him the way he is in those ways. But if I cannot depend on him emotionally, that would be a pretty lonely place to be.

I have some of the same fears but about myself- if that makes any sense.

However I also realize that I cannot uniformly alter my behavior at any and every situation. Some things are simply out of my hands no matter how badly I want them to be in my control. At that point I can only "default" to this:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

If this is the best he can do, the question then becomes, is this the best you can do?

 

[manca]

I think it's not just jealousy going on.

Let me tell you how I feel on gatherings like that.
My sister who is with me all my life and I know her better than anybody had a birthday party for her 40 years. There were about 50 people invited, most of them I knew. However what confused me completely is that my sister was behaving differently. See, she was a host and she behaved like that. Differently than I'm used too. It was like there was another person, someone I don't know. I got really scared, confused, I didn't know what I'm doing here, how am I supposed to behave. Add noise, too many people and it was just too much. I can't really understand what I'm feeling at the time. I kind of zone out, that's my brain slows down or shuts completely. It's like you are in a movie, you see, hear, but don't understand what's going on and you don't figure that you are supposed to play along. Feelings shut down, I don't feel anything, or better my brain doesn't process feelings in a way that I'd be able to recognize them.

When I zone out you would describe me as cold, aloof, unresponsive. It's not my choice.

I don't always understand what caused it, usually there are multiple things that were stressing me out. I try to pinpoint them out, so I could do something about it the next time, but I'm not always successful in it. Sometimes I think it's the x that had the most influence and weeks later I figure out it was actually y.

So, if it was me going to that funeral that's how I think I'd feel.
Firstly it's not my choice to go. I have to, at the certain time I didn't pick. Therefore, I'm not prepared for it. You can't call funeral a pleasant thing, and I definitely need a lot of time to encourage myself to go to things like that.
Then I'll be anxious, because I don't know exactly where, when, who, how, etc.
Then you will be acting differently than I'm used to. That will make me feel like I don't know you. It will be like you're a stranger. That will confuse me, scare me, make me sad. Like I'm not part of your life.
I will try to figure out what my part in it is. Comforting people, obviously. But how? How exactly do I make things better if I hug someone? It won't bring the dead back. It won't stop people from grieving. So why exactly should I do that? When? How long? What should I say? What if I only make things worse?
Add your ex (who for sure must be better at making you feel better than I am) and the feeling I don't know you...
I am jealous, possessive person :unsure: So that will stress me out. I won't know how to act about it though.
The noise and people will bring another portion of stress, but that's been part of my life for so long I won't be paying much attention to it, however it will slow me down and add some more unrecognizable emotions.

Once you mix all this feelings, it all becomes a mess and I don't know how to process it.

I think he was trying hard ("my b/f stayed up very late that night perfecting the slide show, and then got up early the next morning to make home-made bran muffins and home-made slaw to bring with him"), but didn't really know how to go about it. He did things he thought are actually needed and can make a difference. When shoulder to lean on, myself, I don't understand in what way it helps.

Here is an honest fear.and let me know if I am being an insensitive asshole: Am I looking at a life of having to be the strong person here and always making excuses for my aspie because he just can't handle that which is outside of his comfort zone? I am a very trustworthy person and also very independent. I don't want to have to be afraid that whenever I am not attached to him at the hip, that he is going to withdraw and become uncommunicative. I an totally good with the every day kind of ritual things and carrying the conversation in a social setting, and the super-focused interests, etc. I really enjoy him the way he is in those ways. But if I cannot depend on him emotionally, that would be a pretty lonely place to be.

I know I will never be good at making people feel better, supporting them. It just makes me very confused and I don't know what to do. It makes me want to run away and I actually will avoid this situations by every mean. So when I stay and try it's actually a big effort in it already. Then I mess it up, make it worse, like he did, and the next time I will be feeling even worse.
You know him, we don't. You know how you feel about him, we don't. We can't tell you if he's being plain rude, going the easy way or if he's trying his best. I can only tell you how I'd feel about it and actually going there with you is a big trouble for me already. There is always an excuse I can make if I don't want to do something.

Just two pennies from me

 

[fullmind]

If this is the best he can do, the question then becomes, is this the best you can do?[/QUOTE]

Good question, Judge. I will think on that. I guess all relationships have struggles and the struggles I have a strong tangible reaction to the 'cold shoulder' which is what it feels like when he withdraws. It feels like rejection and I just want to get away from it. My reaction is purely emotional, not logical. SO...his withdrawal (while really wanting me to reach out) mixed with my feeling abandoned as a result, could be a recipe for disaster.

What about this: I really am open to being understanding and truly collaborating with him and finding a way to make it work. However, while I want to understand him and his Asperger, I also believe that he must do the same for me. I don't know if I will ever react to withdrawal the way he wants me to. Maybe I will. Maybe it will only be sometimes, depending on the circumstances. I don't know. But that may be one thing that he will just have to learn to deal with the same way that I learn to deal with his 'quirks'. Relationships are a two-way street and both have to make adjustments and compromises.

 

[Sparticus]

The quote below is the best thing I read on this thread. If my female friend wants me to change, I'm going to listen to her and then change. Oh sure in every relationship there are up and downs & miscommunications. But she's not the possesive type. She's a good woman and what she says holds weight with me. Of course I have a voice and an opinion. But if it's really important to her, I'm going to put her advice very high up on my list of things to do. I might be a rebel but I'm not dumb. There's a saying about when you are backpacking, thirsty and have to look for water.

"A good woman is as valuable as water."



Relationships are a two-way street and both have to make adjustments and compromises.[/QUOTE]

 

[Ste11aeres]

Peace, yes he does try. Often I don't notice, because the efforts while big on his part, are not noticed by me until afterward. It is not easy for him. At the same time, I am not going to blindly assume all of his 'moments' are Asperger-related. But I do believe that non-related personality difficulties are further accentuated by Aspergers.

The funeral weekend for example: B/f showed up to do a test-run on the memorial slide show (risking the stereotype, he of course he handles all of the computer/tech stuff) and the aloofness begun with myself and my clergy friend whom he had never met before. He acted like some kind of consultant coming in and 'getting a job done'. i have been with this man for a year now, mind you. My very kind friend said to me afterward, "Does he always act like that?" Concerned!
Anyway, to make my point....my b/f stayed up very late that night perfecting the slide show, and then got up early the next morning to make home-made bran muffins and home-made slaw to bring with him. So he does try. Doing those things were how he could show his desire to be present without being able to do it emotionally I suppose. And I can see that. That was nice.
But I tell you what, a shoulder to lean on during my mom's funeral WAY outweighs some bran muffins.

Here is an honest fear.and let me know if I am being an insensitive asshole: Am I looking at a life of having to be the strong person here and always making excuses for my aspie because he just can't handle that which is outside of his comfort zone? I am a very trustworthy person and also very independent. I don't want to have to be afraid that whenever I am not attached to him at the hip, that he is going to withdraw and become uncommunicative. I an totally good with the every day kind of ritual things and carrying the conversation in a social setting, and the super-focused interests, etc. I really enjoy him the way he is in those ways. But if I cannot depend on him emotionally, that would be a pretty lonely place to be.

It sounds like he is well intentioned and does care about you. However, that is not the full question.
If you were married, I would say yes, please learn to accept him. As it is, there is not such a strict obligation to be with him, so there is more room to start thinking about htings.
Sometimes the problem is not caused by malice, but is simply caused by personality differences, If two people have very different personalities, than it is hard for them to understand each other. On the other hand, if one loves someone, one can learn to appreciate them, and can start to see things from their point of view.
People do change for each other, yes, but one should never never never dependd on another person changing. None of us should pin all our hopes on "the other person making compromises and adjustments too." None of us should depend on that happening, because we can;t control another person. Yeah, it's great if the other person compromises too, but, regardless of who the other person is, there's no knowing for sure whether they will. One should be in a relaitonship with the attitude 'If this is the best it ever is...well, this is actually pretty good, and I'm grateful for it.

It is good that you are trying to understand him.

So, sometimes it comes down to a choice. "Do I want to love this person enough to adjust to his different way of showing affection, to accept those parts of his behavior that would normally make me feel rejected...Is the intellectual knowledge that deep down he truly cares about me enough?
Or do I need to be with people who express affection in the way that I am already comfortable with? In a way more suited to my personality?
It sounds like a situation where it really is your choice.
If the answer is the first one...to learn to accept his style, then great.
If the final answer becomes that it is too hard to accept, then it is better to realize it now than years down the road with marriage and children involved.

I hope the above was not too dramatic. Obviously, this is your relationship, so only you know how you feel about him.
You're not being an asshole.

 

[Judge]

If this is the best he can do, the question then becomes, is this the best you can do?

Good question, Judge. I will think on that. I guess all relationships have struggles and the struggles I have a strong tangible reaction to the 'cold shoulder' which is what it feels like when he withdraws. It feels like rejection and I just want to get away from it. My reaction is purely emotional, not logical. SO...his withdrawal (while really wanting me to reach out) mixed with my feeling abandoned as a result, could be a recipe for disaster.

What about this: I really am open to being understanding and truly collaborating with him and finding a way to make it work. However, while I want to understand him and his Asperger, I also believe that he must do the same for me. I don't know if I will ever react to withdrawal the way he wants me to. Maybe I will. Maybe it will only be sometimes, depending on the circumstances. I don't know. But that may be one thing that he will just have to learn to deal with the same way that I learn to deal with his 'quirks'. Relationships are a two-way street and both have to make adjustments and compromises.

Absolutely. He has to pull his weight in the relationship as well, and not exclusively on his own terms.

Whatever decision you make I think will be a good and honest one, given that you are armed with information my NT girlfriend never had in a similar situation.