It's complicated... divorce as someone with ASD

[ChristianHex]

I need advice, thanks in advance! My relationship of 20 years has ended, and I've just gotten to the point of getting over my social anxiety to where I can reach out. My wife has decided to leave me about 6 months ago, the divorce has been filed but is not final. I was diagnosed with high-functioning ASD about a year and a half ago. Before finding this forum all I could find was forums and sites discussing things from the NT's point of view which to me all seemed like ASD/aspie-bashing (get away, they are so selfish, childish, broken, shallow etc...) .

I'm so glad I found this place!

I'm sure I've not been easy to be in a relationship with especially long term. That being said I really believed we had a solid relationship. Our verbal communication was excellent and that was probably why we lasted so long. Looking back on it especially the past couple of years things had broken down, she had expressed that she just didn't communicate "verbally" to me this was obviously sudden as things had seemed so stable for so long. She met someone else while on a trip to Europe someone that she had "the most romantic day of her life" with. I'm still seeing my therapist that diagnosed me, I had started to see him for severe depression about two years ago. I haven't been in my opinion particularly selfish, I have generally maintained solid employment my adult life except when the economy has been particularly bad, after the last market crash I had a period of under-employment and she was unemployed, so she decided to go back to school and get her masters degree (albeit in a field that was unrelated to her undergraduate degree, confusing to me but it made sense to her, I learned to accept it eventually shouldn't that count for something). During this time I supported the both of us as I love her deeply she was my best friend. This was to me an expression of how much I loved, supported, and respected her decisions in life. I'm really struggling with feelings like I'm the one who drove her away with my introverted manner, especially when it came to physical expression. I have a hard time with "touch" cuddling for example didn't happen in our relationship, small things would bother me, creep me out or I would just not know how to touch her right i.e. "I'm not a cat you don't need to pet me!" I'm still coming to terms with my condition let alone all the other feelings that go along with a separation. My friends all tell me I'm a good person (reading elsewhere is just depressing) , that I'm loyal, that I was there for her etc... but my mind is obsessed with my flaws right now, my self esteem is really low as a result. There's a bunch of other stuff that I could go on about ... my flaws, my obesssions... I could take up pages, but that's for other forums. I'm just hoping that some people can give me advice either from a ASD/aspie view or a neurotypical point of view on how to manage this all. Sorry for the disjointed and random thoughts/sentences, I also have ADD so my mind races faster than I can type.

Thanks again! ChristianHex

 

[Slithytoves]

Welcome to AC, ChristianHex! I'm glad you found us, and very sorry you're going through a rough time.

What sort of advice are you actually looking for? What is it you're trying to "manage"? Are you wanting to get some perspective on what happened? What to do now/next?

It's a shame that you've discovered your ASD and made progress on your social anxiety too late to save your relationship. I really feel for you. It's almost like you should get a "do over", but sadly that's just not what happens.

Our verbal communication was excellent and that was probably why we lasted so long. Looking back on it especially the past couple of years things had broken down, she had expressed that she just didn't communicate "verbally" to me this was obviously sudden as things had seemed so stable for so long.

Are you saying she told you that not all of her communication was verbal, meaning that you missed a lot of nonverbal cues/clues along the way?

During this time I supported the both of us as I love her deeply she was my best friend. This was to me an expression of how much I loved, supported, and respected her decisions in life.

You may have read, or your therapist may have explained, that this is a common problem for Aspies/Auties, especially men. You're right, everything you did was an expression of love. But not every NT can understand that or accept that sort of affirmation as a substitute for more romantic demonstrations of feeling. It can leave us feeling pretty lousy when we're told we haven't loved enough, or "correctly", and we don't get credit for the things we've done because we do love very much.

She met someone else while on a trip to Europe someone that she had "the most romantic day of her life" with.

I'm really struggling with feelings like I'm the one who drove her away with my introverted manner, especially when it came to physical expression. I have a hard time with "touch" cuddling for example didn't happen in our relationship, small things would bother me, creep me out or I would just not know how to touch her right i.e. "I'm not a cat you don't need to pet me!"

I don't know if this was a problem in your relationship, but did she ever tell you explicitly what you should do? Did she react well, and with curiosity for understanding, when you didn't respond well to touch, etc.? It's easy to play "Blame the Aspie/Autie" when intimacy isn't working, but like anything else in a relationship, both partners have to contribute to finding solutions. Negative statements like, "Don't pet me like I'm a cat" can stop a person from doing something, but they do nothing to help us learn to do something instead that will be more pleasing. Spectrum people need clear instructions. Heck, so do a lot of NTs (neurotypical people). So you can't take all of the blame for things falling apart in the intimacy department. Even if she didn't know you were on the spectrum all along, she still has some responsibility for the quality of her communication about this stuff. You're not psychic.

I'm still coming to terms with my condition let alone all the other feelings that go along with a separation. My friends all tell me I'm a good person (reading elsewhere is just depressing) , that I'm loyal, that I was there for her etc... but my mind is obsessed with my flaws right now, my self esteem is really low as a result.

You can't help how you're wired, or that you didn't know you're on the spectrum until recently. Something a lot of adults go through when they discover their ASD is a review of their past relationships. When you look at your history through the lens of your autism for the first time, it's easy to feel like you were at fault for a lot of things that went wrong. But you can also look at it this way: How were you to know? Not having the benefit of that context, you were at a loss for understanding your behavior, and for finding ways to work with yourself in areas that may have needed improvement to make relationships succeed. You do have that now, so you will be better informed going forward. But you can also be gentle on yourself for your past because a vital piece of information was missing.

Out of curiosity, how did your partner handle finding out about your ASD? Did she show any interest in learning about it?

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful.

 

[Ste11aeres]

It sounds like what happened wasn't exactly a failure in your marriage, but had a lot to do with that other person she met.
I'm sure both you and her were imperfect, but it sounds like there was more good than bad in your marriage.

 

[royinpink]

I struggled with how to respond to this because although I am an aspie and relate to some of the things you describe, my father is also an aspie who went through three divorces. My mother was with him thirty years before finally divorcing him, and I supported her in that because I saw how miserable, insecure, and diminished she was as a person.

I didn't want to overly compare your situation to his or be unsympathetic to your pain. So I will say that I absolutely agree with everything Slithytoves has said. I do want to add a couple things, but please know that this is offered simply as help understanding the situation and that I do not blame you.

You ask how to manage it...I think the most important thing is that you accept yourself, flaws and all, and learn how to work with that rather than against it. You have not failed. You legitimately have trouble with things that others find easy (and vice versa). So learn about them, read from others on the spectrum, and come away from this with the self-understanding to never have to be in this position again.

to me this was obviously sudden as things had seemed so stable for so long.

It was sudden for you, but this was very likely a long time coming for her. She did, after all, stick it out for twenty years, presumably hoping it would work. Sadly, you were unable to recognize the signs of her unhappiness, and she was unable to express them to you differently. That is what it is.

My mother was shocked when my father thought the divorce was 'sudden', as she had been struggling with the situation for ten years, gone on antidepressants, gone to marriage counseling with him, had periods of separation, and it was still not working. In his mind, he had made the necessary changes and 'solved the problem', and all that remained was her dealing with 'her' issues. But her issues were a direct result of his need for control over their home and her life, his need for routine which he imposed on her, his criticism and lack of affection, his delegation of all executive functioning related tasks to her, etc. She simply was not getting her emotional needs met, and she was not free to have her own life. In many ways she was also his caretaker.

I don't mean to suggest your situation is the same. I only tell you as an example of how that seemingly sudden situation can occur.

I know that Tony Attwood has noted that aspie men tend more often (than aspie women) to pick a partner who is in many ways their opposite--more emotional, good at multitasking and managing life--and thus more easily fall into the trap of the woman being the caretaker whose emotional needs are not met. I don't know if this was true in your case, but I think it is easier when both partners are similar in personality, if not both on the spectrum.

I haven't been in my opinion particularly selfish, I have generally maintained solid employment my adult life

For most people, being selfish has to do with a lot more than material/financial things. Being selfish means putting your needs, your space, your preferences first, and not considering theirs and meeting them halfway. This can be a problem for aspies because we tend to be blind to what others are needing until it is spelled out. And NTs (especially women) strongly feel it is rude and demanding to spell out their own needs for you. They also expect that if you care about them, you will naturally consider them, so having to say what they want means that you don't really care. Frustrating, I know.

Being just a provider financially leaves loved ones with the feeling that their entire value to you can be reduced to a price tag, or even that you are paying them to be close to you. You need other ways to show people you care. I can say this from having experienced the 'provider' type of care.

Have you ever read The Journal of Best Practices? It might not be the best book to read while you are still in pain, but when you are ready to seek understanding or begin a new relationship, it has a lot of experience from the male perspective that I think might be helpful to you.

Please don't beat yourself up over what you could have done differently. You didn't know. She didn't know. What's done is done. Focus on the present, always.

 

[ChristianHex]

Welcome to AC, ChristianHex! I'm glad you found us, and very sorry you're going through a rough time.

What sort of advice are you actually looking for? What is it you're trying to "manage"? Are you wanting to get some perspective on what happened? What to do now/next?

A little of each, mostly how to manage the loss / grief. Also just support. My therapist is great but I only see him about once every 3 weeks we are trying to do every other but his calendar is always full.

Are you saying she told you that not all of her communication was verbal, meaning that you missed a lot of nonverbal cues/clues along the way?

I wish it was just "not all my communication is verbal" it was "I'm not a verbal communicator" she said she was sick of all the talking, it really hurt after 20 years of amazing conversations talking was the cornerstone of our relationship.

I don't know if this was a problem in your relationship, but did she ever tell you explicitly what you should do? Did she react well, and with curiosity for understanding, when you didn't respond well to touch, etc.?

No, never positive feedback it was always "no/don't/that's weird etc.", I would try and initiate these conversations, as due to my difficulty with touch I have "unusual/kink" needs and tried to help her understand for years. This was an endless source of frustration for me as she was extremely vanilla she loved sex and frequency up until she entered grad school was not an issue she ended up "taking care of herself" often. I really just wrote it off as she's busy with school. In retrospect I should have handled it with more directness.

Out of curiosity, how did your partner handle finding out about your ASD? Did she show any interest in learning about it?

Very positively and with alot of support, this just adds to my confusion about the separation. She had always read alot of Temple Granden. She did read and recommend a few books to me (The reason I Jump, for example)

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful.

Very much so, Thanks!

 

[Slithytoves]

A little of each, mostly how to manage the loss / grief. Also just support. My therapist is great but I only see him about once every 3 weeks we are trying to do every other but his calendar is always full.

That's a bummer about your therapist's availability. Good help is hard to book. Speaking of "book", if you want a recommendation for a good post-relationship grieving guide, try Susan Anderson's The Journey from Abandonment to Healing. I haven't read it myself, by my therapist has it in his office and says he finds it the best of its kind. It takes a very similar approach to the Kübler-Ross model for grieving a death, but I'm told it does a really good job tailoring for loss of a love.

I wish it was just "not all my communication is verbal" it was "I'm not a verbal communicator" she said she was sick of all the talking, it really hurt after 20 years of amazing conversations talking was the cornerstone of our relationship.

Well, relationships do take a lot of communication, especially when things start to get shaky. And of course we spectrum people need communication to be very explicit. If part of her frustration was that you two kept having the same conversations but never really got anywhere, that's a signal that couples' therapy was called for. Then again, some things just can't be talked out; not if two people really aren't on the same page on a subject, and don't see a path to getting there. I always wonder what the communication dynamics are when couples get nowhere new by discussing things. I'm not insinuating anything about you and your partner in particular. It's just something I think about. Other people's breakups always make me reflect on my own.

No, never positive feedback it was always "no/don't/that's weird etc.", I would try and initiate these conversations, as due to my difficulty with touch I have "unusual/kink" needs and tried to help her understand for years. This was an endless source of frustration for me as she was extremely vanilla she loved sex and frequency up until she entered grad school was not an issue she ended up "taking care of herself" often. I really just wrote it off as she's busy with school. In retrospect I should have handled it with more directness.

So much becomes clear in hindsight. I'm sorry that neither of you were able to find the right way to articulate your needs and compromise. At least the fault seems to have been mutual. I know that as the person who has been abandoned, it's especially easy to internalize blame. And as an autistic, it's easy to feel you're at fault for bad communication. But please do remember that this isn't all on you. It takes two to Tango, and all that.

Very positively and with alot of support, this just adds to my confusion about the separation. She had always read alot of Temple Granden. She did read and recommend a few books to me (The reason I Jump, for example)

I'm glad that at least she wasn't hostile towards your autism. That would have been a very tough environment for digesting your discovery.

About your confusion, a willingness to understand isn't the same as an ability to tolerate. We each have our own needs and our own threshold for struggling to get them met. She might have tried very hard in her own way but just couldn't reconcile things well enough to be content. That could have been you, in only slightly different circumstances. You were together for a long time, so you can be proud of yourself, and of her, for hanging in there for each other for so long. It sounds like you went through a lot together. But we do reach certain junctures in our lives when we naturally reassess things, and decide what we want to carry forward. As we age, we see everything from a progressively different angle. Sometimes something unexpected and external - like a day with a stranger in Europe - sparks a revelation, and a review. That could have been you, too, with some other poignant experience. It's just unfortunate that she reached a point where she could no longer see the two of you as viable for the future she wanted. Still, it's not entirely unreasonable for a person to do that. It's just easier when you're on the other end of the decision-making.

The instinct is to say, "But we were together for so long." If you think about it, though, people evolve on their own course, and grow apart and together in slow undulations all the while. It's actually pretty amazing when a couple can make it through twenty years of that fluctuation. So you did very well, really, by modern standards. The odds just finally caught up with you. It's no indictment of you as a person that they did.

 

[royinpink]

Fact is, she was the one who left and the flaw is within her, for not seeing or understanding exactly who you are.

While I agree that it's important that OP not blame himself, I would hesitate to blame his spouse, not knowing the full situation. Perhaps she just communicates differently and realized she needs someone who is on her wavelength. That doesn't mean she doesn't know what real love is. We don't know her perspective so I think it is very presumptuous to judge her. This may be one of those situations that is 'no one's fault'.

Yes, we all need someone who understands and loves us for who we are. But not everyone is the right person to do that for us. And we have to be able to give the other person understanding in return.

 

[royinpink]

That may be royinpink, she may communicate differently. I was in fact not judging her, I indicated that she has a flaw in not understanding that he loves her, and they are unable to work it out. Everyone has flaws that sometimes can be overcome or not. And very often the marriages that I have personally seen break up are as a result of neither party compromising or understanding one another. And really that's is often what marriage is about, compromise.

Thanks for clarifying what you mean. Perhaps I am very literal and pedantic, but when I read flaw, I think of it as something someone does not do right or a problem with them. Thus, actions that result from their flaws are their 'fault'. The reason is that although we all have flaws, they are generally not justifiable reasons for our actions but rather things we try to cope with or compensate for. If we act on our flaws, like someone with a temper verbally abusing someone else, they become blameworthy acts.

Suggesting someone has a flaw in not understanding or loving someone would mean one of two things to me:

1. We are expected to understand everyone in order to not be flawed. Perhaps you mean this, but in that case we can hardly expect everyone to be able to marry everyone else. Maybe it is a flaw in me that I am not compatible with everyone, but I think we all have that 'flaw' in common and choose our partners to 'compensate' for it rather than constantly working to bridge that gap in understanding. Marriage does require work, but there is a difference.
   
2. Inability to understand the person we marry is a flaw. This requires further support, e.g. the assumption that marriage is binding for life and people cannot change or realize new things about themselves while married, or cannot genuinely be a 'bad' match. I would disagree with this.

Again, perhaps I am being pedantic. But communication and understanding requires two people: the one giving the message and the one receiving it. Thus, when it breaks down, it is usually mutual.

 

[Karin]

I agree it is long time for a marriage to last. I find when relationships break up, it isn't about what is wrong with the other person. It's about at least one of the people not finding what they need any more. It happens to most of us. It doesn't mean anything was done wrong.

As for the surprise element, I will add that I have tried to divorce my aspie husband four times and he has equally surprised and chocked every single time. We now co-habit and that works for me. I will also say that being married to an aspie generally makes you a very strong person who has to rely on yourself for support. It is a great life lesson but if that was the case in this marriage I can see how the ex-wife could be swept away by another man who seemed to give her more open attention and support.

In my experience there is no answer to "what did I do wrong?" You didn't do anything wrong. You are who you are.

 

[On the Inside]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but welcome to the forum, this is a good, mature group of people, they have been very helpful to me.

It is a great life lesson but if that was the case in this marriage I can see how the ex-wife could be swept away by another man who seemed to give her more open attention and support.

That is what happened to me in my first marriage. We had been together 7 years, and I thought things were fine, though we did have a 6 month period of separation which she said was more about developing a stronger sense of self. Two years later and she had met someone who worked in the business next door to where she worked, who she had been meeting for lunch, just friends at first.

We split amicably, and I thought that I dealt with the divorce in a healthy way, saw a therapist, grieving process and all, but in hindsight I see that I was pretty naive and it wasn't until years later that I really got mad about the whole thing.

Now, even more years later, I have been diagnosed with HFA and can see how my behavior, my social and relationship issues contributed to her looking elsewhere for her emotional needs.

By the way, the thing with the other guy didn't last long, and I had lunch with her about 2 years ago, to get some perspective ( I had recently been diagnosed, I didn't tell her) She has been with a different partner for 10 years or so, and having difficulty. She intimated to me that she was sorry we split up, and admitted that she made a mistake. I have since then had to break off communication with her, she was starting to create drama and I didn't need that. So while it is hard now, look forward to what the future holds, we all change, and sometimes that change leads to people going their separate ways.

 

[ChristianHex]

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice especially the multiple perspective S,

 

[Gordy]

Dear ChristianHex,

My first marriage lasted 20 years, but we were separated for the last three of those.
After a gap of two years (five years since we split up) I married someone else.

My first marriage broke down mainly due to expectation issues. As a young couple with kids there is always a great expectation that you will "move up" to a bigger house, a bigger car or more extravagant holidays. I was fortunate in that I was able to turn a hobby into a business and I made a lot of money. But, working myself like that made me suicidal, and having a wife who did not communicate well and was not very sympathetic made things worse. Eventually I left and it nearly killed me - especially not seeing the kids.

Now, six or seven years later I am a much happier person, with someone who is learning to understand me. Life is not without its challenges, but I think that this end of life is easier for someone with Aspergers as the expectation is now that I should be winding down my career and looking towards retirement.

Dating again was a nightmare so I gave up - which was when I met my current wife.
So don't panic on these issues.
I know its easy to say, but things do gradually improve.
Oh, and two of my kids are grown up now. The other is nearly finished school and we see quite a bit of each other.

 

[LSDD08-12?]

Hey ChritianHex,

I'm sorry to hear about your divorce. Break-ups are horrible. Nothing I will say hasn't already been said but I just wanted to highlight how important it is that you don't blame yourself for what happened. I left a brilliant man (with HFA) and for many months I told myself it was because I needed more support from him. Now I see that it was just as much my inability to communicate what I needed to him.

 

[Beverly]

I have been through one divorce and three long term relationship failures, and once I was widowed but, that doesn't count in this thread.

At the time I blamed them more than myself but, hindsight and maturity have allowed me to see that the single biggest error was mine. I did not make it clear that I do not take hints, cannot read non verbal cues well at all and, that I take what is said to me very literally. Had I explained that to them, they could have made an effort to communicate more effectively with me. Whether they would have or not is debatable but, it was my error not to make that clear near the beginning of a relationship.

I did so with my current husband and, we have an amazing marriage. He knows to say what he needs to say directly and bluntly with me. I won't get upset when he is brutally honest. I understand that and, don't have to guess what he meant - he meant exactly what he said.

He does get a bit frustrated at my need to have him tell me step by step as I do something when I am trying to learn a new skill but, he does give me the instruction I need to a point. If I am too slow doing it, he get frustrated and does it himself. He is NT so, I can understand why he is frustrated with my preferred learning method.

Our standing joke is him telling me "She isn't worth a **** but, she can cook and sing." meaning my communication and learning skills are lousy, but I contribute things he adores to our marriage and, he is supportive of my music. I got insulted by it at first, then he explained it and, now I laugh because I know it's his way of saying he loves and appreciates me for who I am.

As confusing, difficult and painful as divorce is, it is not the end of the world and, not the end of your happiness. You can choose to be happy single or, find another relationship that will work better for you. NTs can understand us if we can explain what our shortcomings are and, how they need to help us avoid misunderstandings and missed signals. We are going to miss most non verbal cues, and we won't take hints but, if they are direct and say exactly what they mean, we can be wonderful partners in a relationship.