Issue with CBT counselling

[Skids]

Hello everyone and thanks for reading this. Hopefully i will get some responses to allow me to work things out.

I am having CBT sessions which is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and although i don't understand it totally i am receptive to the theory and protocols that underpin it.

One aspect is basically experimenting with things to try and prove or disprove an assumption.

For example i've been having a tough few years, my kid is at school in the day and my partner is at work and i am unable to work mainly due to having a few health conditions other than the autism.

As a result of this i've spent lots of time pretty isolated and have become lost and have no direction or motivation to anything other than the necessities of daily life.

So the therapist suggested that i start applying to volunteer at places or look for groups to join as she thinks it will help me to move forward. I stated that i had no idea what i was interested in (outside my extremely narrow interests of football and horse racing) and if i was to volunteer somewhere not linked to my interests then i'd be bored, unstimulated, surrounded by people with little common interest and thus it would set me back further.

She reminded me of the CBT theory and asked how would i know if i would be bored, unstimulated and surrounded by people with little common interest if i didn't try.

She said that i couldn't predict how i would feel about a given situation when i've not put myself in that situation before. She said i might even like it.

I explained to her that i have HFA and that i 100% for sure know before even doing it that if i was to volunteer in a charity shop for example, or at a local foodbank, or a local tourist attraction or indeed anywhere else that isn't football or horse racing related then i would be bored, unstimulated and surrounded by people with little common interest.

She wasn't able to grasp the fact that i am absolutely not interested in anything else and nothing else can motivate me or get me excited like football or horse racing. Not interested to the point of not even wanting to give it a go because i've had many jobs before that haven't lasted because i'd either been distressingly bored out of my mind to the point that it was making me ill or because most of my co-workers were generally interested in mainstream topics of chat like pop music (not obscure metal), like holidays to Majorca (not trekking in the Arctic), tv programmes about celebrities (not documentaries about atoms), like which pubs they got drunk in at the weekend (not about a great theatre production they'd been to see) and like who they fancied all the time.

I can chit chat and small talk with the best of them but when you yearn for someone to come along who wants to chat about something actually interesting for a change and that someone doesn't arrive then it soon becomes bleak.

I'm have a dichotomy because i absolutely know my own mind and how my autism works and affects me and this is what the therapist absolutely cannot know, yet she seems convinced that she knows best. I want to give this CBT a real go but i am reluctant to go off volunteering somewhere where i know it will be unfulfilling and self defeating and i don't want to tell her i don't trust the theory on this particular aspect of CBT for autistic people.

The only thing i CAN do is apply to volunteer at football clubs or horse racing tracks but these are few and far between in my local area and even then i am not aware of those sorts of places even having volunteers. My field of interest is restricted and it will look to the therapist that i'm making excuses or not trying but the fact is i only want to be around these areas and around people who spend lots of their time and life talking about or being involved in these areas.

I do have other interests but nothing else i would consider myself specialist at or that inspires, excites and motivates me.

Have any of you gone out there and done things you were convinced you thought would be dull or uninteresting and been wrong?

Do i just continue to spend more and more time at home in the absence of any suitable volunteering / work opportunity in my area of interest and put up with it or do i give things a try and hope that i find just the one thing that bucks the trend?

Thanks for reading anyway.

 

[Progster]

It's up to you what you do... but don't be too quick to reject the idea of volunteer work - do some research and see what's around first. Volunteer work isn't just charity shops, it could include animal shelters or some kind of local community or environmental project, or helping disabled or disadvantaged people, etc. You might not be able to find work that is directly related to your interests, but if you look for work that is intellectually stimulating, or doesn't require too much contact with people, it might be suitable. The one time I did organised volunteer work, it was helping to clean up a beach, it's not something I'd like to do day in, day out, but I could go off to my own corner and got some satisfaction out of the fact that my stretch of the beach was clear of plastic and garbage and I didn't regret volunteering for it.

Another approach would be to try to find something that is in some way associated with your special interest, for example, you mention horse racing: this involves horses. Perhaps you could ask around at a local stables if they need any help/volunteers - it might not be exactly what you are interested in, but it is in some way related and the people there are more likely to be interested in or knowledgeable about horse racing than, for example, a charity shop.

 

[Gracey]

Hello everyone and thanks for reading this. Hopefully i will get some responses to allow me to work things out.

I am having CBT sessions which is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and although i don't understand it totally i am receptive to the theory and protocols that underpin it.

One aspect is basically experimenting with things to try and prove or disprove an assumption.

For example i've been having a tough few years, my kid is at school in the day and my partner is at work and i am unable to work mainly due to having a few health conditions other than the autism.

As a result of this i've spent lots of time pretty isolated and have become lost and have no direction or motivation to anything other than the necessities of daily life.

So the therapist suggested that i start applying to volunteer at places or look for groups to join as she thinks it will help me to move forward. I stated that i had no idea what i was interested in (outside my extremely narrow interests of football and horse racing) and if i was to volunteer somewhere not linked to my interests then i'd be bored, unstimulated, surrounded by people with little common interest and thus it would set me back further.

She reminded me of the CBT theory and asked how would i know if i would be bored, unstimulated and surrounded by people with little common interest if i didn't try.

She said that i couldn't predict how i would feel about a given situation when i've not put myself in that situation before. She said i might even like it.

I explained to her that i have HFA and that i 100% for sure know before even doing it that if i was to volunteer in a charity shop for example, or at a local foodbank, or a local tourist attraction or indeed anywhere else that isn't football or horse racing related then i would be bored, unstimulated and surrounded by people with little common interest.

She wasn't able to grasp the fact that i am absolutely not interested in anything else and nothing else can motivate me or get me excited like football or horse racing. Not interested to the point of not even wanting to give it a go because i've had many jobs before that haven't lasted because i'd either been distressingly bored out of my mind to the point that it was making me ill or because most of my co-workers were generally interested in mainstream topics of chat like pop music (not obscure metal), like holidays to Majorca (not trekking in the Arctic), tv programmes about celebrities (not documentaries about atoms), like which pubs they got drunk in at the weekend (not about a great theatre production they'd been to see) and like who they fancied all the time.

I can chit chat and small talk with the best of them but when you yearn for someone to come along who wants to chat about something actually interesting for a change and that someone doesn't arrive then it soon becomes bleak.

I'm have a dichotomy because i absolutely know my own mind and how my autism works and affects me and this is what the therapist absolutely cannot know, yet she seems convinced that she knows best. I want to give this CBT a real go but i am reluctant to go off volunteering somewhere where i know it will be unfulfilling and self defeating and i don't want to tell her i don't trust the theory on this particular aspect of CBT for autistic people.

The only thing i CAN do is apply to volunteer at football clubs or horse racing tracks but these are few and far between in my local area and even then i am not aware of those sorts of places even having volunteers. My field of interest is restricted and it will look to the therapist that i'm making excuses or not trying but the fact is i only want to be around these areas and around people who spend lots of their time and life talking about or being involved in these areas.

I do have other interests but nothing else i would consider myself specialist at or that inspires, excites and motivates me.

Have any of you gone out there and done things you were convinced you thought would be dull or uninteresting and been wrong?

Do i just continue to spend more and more time at home in the absence of any suitable volunteering / work opportunity in my area of interest and put up with it or do i give things a try and hope that i find just the one thing that bucks the trend?

Thanks for reading anyway.

I have gone out there and undertaken mind numbing, socially draining work due to needing the income to help keep the roof over the family’s head.

At the time I didn’t have the luxury of choice.

Was I wrong? (In my guess of how it would turn out)

No. Not really.
At the time I didn’t understand why either.

I think you’re therapist is challenging your rigid beliefs.

If you go out there volunteering ‘knowing’ that you’ll find the work dull and uninteresting then you’ll only look for examples of the dull and uninteresting to confirm your own opinion.

You won’t be open to or notice all of the other stuff that goes on perhaps?

All of the other stuff that the therapist is convinced happens in a social group.

Perhaps the therapist is wondering whether or not your isolation at home is doing you any good?

 

[Oldlady]

I have also found that diet and exercise can help a lot with mood. Even when you're not interested in eating a particular way or working out ... you should do it because it really helps to lift your mood and put you in a position to deal with the world.

 

[Progster]

Another thing I should add is that CBT wasn't designed with autistic people in mind and doesn't work for everybody.

 

[Tom]

Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But it seems to me you can't see beyond you're own perspective and may be falling into the trap of self-fulfilling prophecy. If you really mean it that you want things to change you have to try something.

 

[Ginseng]

I agree with the commenters. In college I put off English literature classes as long as possible. I knew I would hate it. English always bored me. But when I finally was forced to take it I almost changed my major. I loved it to my surprise. A good teacher can make all the difference.
Besides our special interest change over the years. My psychiatrist suggested I volunteer for some thing too. I thought that was a dumb idea. I don’t have the energy to do the things I need to do now, why volunteer for something I don’t need to do. Maybe when I get the energy to do what I need I will volunteer for what I don’t need. It is difficult to get us to do things we don’t think make sense, but perhaps it would help us to not be so stuck and rigid. I try hard not to be rigid but when I am depressed I am pretty rigid. Is depression what you are dealing with? You don’t have to answer but she probably wants you to make some changes that will get you out of your rut.

I would contemplate this throughly and look for something,possibly short term, where you might find some intelligent conversation. Have you considered a hospital setting, perhaps working with psychiatric patients? You may need a little training first . Or just any work in a hospital? Hopefully they offer some intelligent conversation.

 

[Ginseng]

Has CBT worked for others in here? My therapist was trying it on me. We didn’t get past her explaining it to me before she got angry with me. So I am truly worse off than before I started. I seem to be a therapist nightmare. And then they leave me to live it out.

 

[Skids]

Thanks for your replies thus far. This site is full of helpful people who more often than not understand and your balanced views always give me an opportunity to take a step back and rethink things so thanks again.

Ginseng, you make an interesting point about it being difficult for us to do things that don't make sense. I fully agree with that and would add to that the fact that personally i also find it difficult to do things that seemingly have no 'ultimate goal' or 'clear aim'.

Perhaps that's also partly the reason i'm finding it a challenge to motivate myself to try new things. For example if i volunteer in a charity shop then what is the 'end game'? What is the purpose? What is the final result that i get from it? I require a clear plan of progression and if there isn't one then i will find myself becoming bored and disillusioned after a short while.

For example, if i attend a job interview then the end game and the purpose is to get the job. Once i've got the job then the end game and the purpose is to learn, be the best i can in that job, navigate the social minefield with both colleagues and management and then try and progress in that job or open up doors for something else. If it's a mundane job or the managers are horrible and incompetent then the purpose quickly becomes trying to find another before i get fired or storm off one day and never go back. Which is usually the case with me.

I take on board what you are saying also Gracey. I too have worked hard for the last 25 years in a variety of jobs before i got ill, most of which i hated so i know the stress caused by the necessity to work and earn money and detesting your job or co/workers / managers or both.

You and Tom both make a valid point about looking for the negative perspectives in situations and i can agree that generally i am like that as a person so i accept that is an issue that needs looking at.

I have purchased some books so i can learn more about the CBT approach as it specifically applies to autistic individuals because as my autism assessor and Progster rightly point out, CBT is slightly modified when dealing with autistic people in order to appropriately address their specific requirements.

One is by Lee A. Wilkinson and is called Overcoming Depression and Anxiety on the Autism Spectrum - A Self Help Guide Using CBT and i also have similar books by Valerie L Gaus which i need to read through properly when i get the opportunity.

I suppose help and hope is out there somewhere and like Tom says, often we need to try something rather than nothing otherwise we stay stuck in the mud.

Thanks again everyone. I don't post often but always reading you guys on here and always inspired by you all.

 

[Ginseng]

i also find it difficult to do things that seemingly have no 'ultimate goal' or 'clear aim'.

I think that is included in my definition of things we don't understand. We do not see a purpose in them. . Of course there may be a purpose, we just don't see it. And perhaps the NT therapist sees a purpose but to us that is purposeless. I am probably talking beyond my ability to make sense. I think my convo is becoming purposeless.

 

[Otenba]

Practising CBT has often left me feeling like I'm lying to myself, or I'm making excuses for others for their behaviour towards me. It's not all bad, but it certainly doesn't fix all. It takes a lot of work to get right and even then, we're only human; you're still going to have bad days/times and make mistakes.

 

[Fino]

General statements on perspective and trying new things and all is great, but I don't think that necessarily means to try whatever is suggested first despite how awful it sounds. I would imagine exploring and discussing various options until something is found that feels more promising.

The suggestion to volunteer at all seems more like something that should be a passing suggestion, not something hounded on, as if it's the only way for anything to improve.

Unless that didn't happen, but I sort of got that impression somehow. More of a, "Something to keep in mind."

I participated in CBT/DBT for several years and found it very helpful, but it took more than five years for the benefits to be noticeable.

Mine didn't include a lot of, "Go out and do that," sort of stuff. It was almost entirely about my thoughts, negative automatic thoughts and replacements thoughts, fixed false beliefs, and then behavioral things like impulse control, healthy self-talk, healthy coping mechanisms, withstanding painful emotions without immediately trying to make them go away, and other such stuff.

 

[tducey]

Volunteer work is always good, added bonus is it looks good on a resume as well.

 

[china autie]

I've done lots of volunteer work

but

it was all related to my passions (special interests).

Doing more of what doesn't work doesn't work, as Nathaniel Brandon says. Challenging my thoughts and expectations may be useful. Pressuring me to do somehing I am extremely not interested in is not useful.

Some random thoughts which may or may not be useful:

Can you coach kids in football? Go to some school games and cheer them on?

Can you ask the library or somewhere to allow you to teach a free class for adults on some aspect of horse racing?

Ask an older peoples home or nursing home if they have a patient who would enjoy talking about or listening to stuff about football or horse racing? This last would involve you having to deal with only one person.

Write an article for a community newsletter about some aspect of football clubs or horse racing? You write rather well [your post reads well].

Otherwise I would question the insistence of your therapist's suggestions about voluteer work. I might say, "I am not ready to do this at this time. I want to focus on _________ ."

I have not had a good time in counseling except when I set my own goals and wrote down my agenda for each session. Not having specific things I want to work on has led in the past to mental health workers exerting too much control over my therapeutic process.

Your idea about reading books about CBT written with autistics in mind is a great one. I might also ask the counselor how much experience they've had professionally with autistics.