Islam and Narcissism

[Coxhere]

He said "Divorced from Reality". I feel being Divorced means that we suffer. If we add Images we are Divorced twice. Being Divorced 3 times between a man and woman is nearly irreversibel.

This is an interesting perspective and so different from the Christian religion where one uses images to contemplate and worship God and his kingdom in heaven.

Also, mosques don't have seats or pews, do they? This would also be different from Christian churches and there must be reasons for this.

Is music played in mosques? Do mosques have choirs? My son, Jack, is a vocalist, a tenor, in an Episcopalian church choir where he is a member.

 

[Mary Terry]

This is an interesting perspective and so different from the Christian religion where one uses images to contemplate and worship God and his kingdom in heaven.

I just wanted to point out that not all Christian religions use imagery. I grew up in the Presbyterian Church, now called Presbyterian PCA (conservative) and images of God, Christ, crosses, crucifixes, etc. are never placed in the churches. The sanctuaries are very plain, almost austere. Fresh flower arrangements are placed in the front of the church during services but that's all. Most likely due to those frugal, old Scots like John Calvin who founded the church in Scotland as a pushback to Roman Catholicism which they viewed as corrupt.

 

[Coxhere]

I just wanted to point out that not all Christian religions use imagery. I grew up in the Presbyterian Church, now called Presbyterian PCA (conservative) and images of God, Christ, crosses, crucifixes, etc. are never placed in the churches. The sanctuaries are very plain, almost austere. Fresh flower arrangements are placed in the front of the church during services but that's all. Most likely due to those frugal, old Scots like John Calvin who founded the church in Scotland as a pushback to Roman Catholicism which they viewed as corrupt.

I think it's sad that the human tendency to see things that seem different are then considered corrupt. I think that seeing the diversity in things is more spiritual than seeing diversity as scary and malevolent. I think that universalism is better than tribalism.

I suppose that some tribalists could consider flowers to be "graven images."

Do Presbyterians "image" God? Or how, then, do Presbyterians consider God?

 

[Magna]

there is a difference between being religious and having a faith. but i only know about Christianity. Christianity teaches humility which is an opposite of narcissism.

It might teach that, but I would argue that most religions that promote rigid and zealous adherence to their tenets are a perfect "cover" for narcissists. I don't mean that all practitioners of said religions are narcissists. I mean that passing judgement on others in a self-righteous manner (ie "God is happy with me and unhappy with you. I'm better than you are in that regard. I'm "good" and you're "bad") and using religion as the basis for their behavior ("Don't be mad at me...they're not my words, they're God's words") to hide behind is a deflection, a cloak for certain people's narcissism to go unchecked or unscrutinized.

Societies should have a collective religious tolerance and should thereby allow people to believe, worship, etc as they see fit, for themselves. However, any religion that has a tenet that said religion should be FORCED upon others is quite literally a threat to society at large and as such, understandable if said societies defend against the threat.

Also, the title of this post is related to Islam. My paragraph above this sentence isn't meant to be specific to any one religion. It's meant to apply to ANY religion that teaches it's practitioners that they have license/mandate to force others to adhere to that faith. That's very wrong on its face and the opposite of innocuous.

 

[Coxhere]

It might teach that, but I would argue that most religions that promote rigid and zealous adherence to their tenets are a perfect "cover" for narcissists. I don't mean that all practitioners of said religions are narcissists. I mean that passing judgement on others in a self-righteous manner (ie "God is happy with me and unhappy with you. I'm better than you are in that regard. I'm "good" and you're "bad") and using religion as the basis for their behavior ("Don't be mad at me...they're not my words, they're God's words") to hide behind is a deflection, a cloak for certain people's narcissism to go unchecked or unscrutinized.

Societies should have a collective religious tolerance and should thereby allow people to believe, worship, etc as they see fit, for themselves. However, any religion that has a tenet that said religion should be FORCED upon others is quite literally a threat to society at large and as such, understandable if said societies defend against the threat.

Also, the title of this post is related to Islam. My paragraph above this sentence isn't meant to be specific to any one religion. It's meant to apply to ANY religion that teaches it's practitioners that they have license/mandate to force others to adhere to that faith. That's very wrong on its face and the opposite of innocuous.

When I've spoken of religious beliefs, I've meant to use the terms, "dualistic," "tribal," and "fear-based." It's not Christian, Muslim, nor Judaism, per se. It's meant for any religion that says one's way is the only way. Dualistic tribalism is what, I think, will destroy the world and so that is negative. The "Christian preacher" in Florida who burned copies of the Koran is a good example of a human being who believes in dualistic tribalism. Scary. Very scary.

 

[Magna]

When I've spoken of religious beliefs, I've meant to use the terms, "dualistic," "tribal," and "fear-based." It's not Christian, Muslim, nor Judaism, per se. It's meant for any religion that says one's way is the only way. Dualistic tribalism is what, I think, will destroy the world and so that is negative. The "Christian preacher" in Florida who burned copies of the Koran is a good example of a human being who believes in dualistic tribalism. Scary. Very scary.

I've thought something similar for years, based on my experience: Fear, Guilt and Shame. The three columns upon which at least some prominent religions are built on and fueled by.

 

[Coxhere]

I've thought something similar for years, based on my experience: Fear, Guilt and Shame. The three columns upon which at least some prominent religions are built on and fueled by.

I remember from my sociology major courses that religion is supposed to be the "glue" that holds societies together. However, religion that is dualistic and tribal merely holds together a tribe. The world is getting too small for tribal religions anymore. We are faced with tribalistic religions everyday now. Whatever our particular religion is, it's no longer enough in terms of saving and preserving the earth. I think it was Carl Sagan who said, "We human beings are technological adolescents. We'd better learn how to become adults and fast or we're going to destroy the world."

 

[Mary Terry]

I think it's sad that the human tendency to see things that seem different are then considered corrupt. I think that seeing the diversity in things is more spiritual than seeing diversity as scary and malevolent. I think that universalism is better than tribalism.

I suppose that some tribalists could consider flowers to be "graven images."

Do Presbyterians "image" God? Or how, then, do Presbyterians consider God?

Sometimes entities really ARE corrupt.

I'm unaware of any "tribe" that considers flowers to be "graven images". "Graven" means painted, carved, drawn, etc. A classic example would be a gold statute of a bull that people worship. Fresh flowers are not "graven".

Presbyterians have no fixed idea of what God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, apostles or any other person or being mentioned in the Bible looked like. No one knows. I'm pretty sure Jesus did not have blue eyes, blond hair and white skin as depicted in some paintings and "graven images" I've seen.

Islam prohibits the depiction of Allah and humans. That's why mosques are decorated with gorgeous paintings and ceramic tiles of flowers or geometric shapes, etc. I've been to the Blue Mosque and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, two incredibly beautiful buildings.

 

[Coxhere]

Sometimes entities really ARE corrupt.

I'm unaware of any "tribe" that considers flowers to be "graven images". "Graven" means painted, carved, drawn, etc. A classic example would be a gold statute of a bull that people worship. Fresh flowers are not "graven".

Presbyterians have no fixed idea of what God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, apostles or any other person or being mentioned in the Bible looked like. No one knows. I'm pretty sure Jesus did not have blue eyes, blond hair and white skin as depicted in some paintings and "graven images" I've seen.

Islam prohibits the depiction of Allah and humans. That's why mosques are decorated with gorgeous paintings and ceramic tiles of flowers or geometric shapes, etc. I've been to the Blue Mosque and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, two incredibly beautiful buildings.

The Bible says that, because of the "fall of man," the entire world is under the influence of sin. I don't believe this but this is in the Bible: "We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8:22 & 23)

With the world under the effects of the fall and original sin, I could see a tribe thinking that flowers are a part of this problem. Flowers could be the "graven images" of a fallen world and human beings, also under the influence of the fall and original sin, could be lacking in perceiving flowers correctly. The serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden could be tempting humankind with flowers into thinking they are beautiful when, in fact, they are a part of original sin and are, therefore, sinful.

As I say, I don't believe any of this but I can, however, think that misguided tribal "leaders" could hatch up such a concept merely because they are different from Presbyterians who put flowers in places of worship. Also, I think that Eastern Orthodox icons in place of Roman Catholics "graven images" are also sinful. Beautiful paintings? Also sinful. Anything beautiful can be used to get human worshippers off the focus of a god/goddess that is spirit.

 

[Markness]

I've met people from Hellspersonell, ... they Forced me to be join their team. I lost. I can't blame them. But we can blame Devil.

I don’t believe in a devil and there is no evidence that one exists so how can anyone blame one for making them do something? That doesn’t make any sense. You either make a decision or you don’t make one on your own.

 

[Markness]

But Muslims are a little better than narcissts and beyond


IMHO

Muslims and narcissists are not mutually exclusive. And how is what you said not itself a narcissistic statement?

 

[lunarious]

I don’t believe in a devil and there is no evidence that one exists so how can anyone blame one for making them do something? That doesn’t make any sense. You either make a decision or you don’t make one on your own.

I agree one has to take responsibility. And there's a God to help you with that. He helps with control.

Our problem is we say in Norway "much wants more". ... So we need to accept little. We need acceptance.

There's a Paradise where you and I if we end there, where we can enjoy the fruit of our work. People as maybe autists suffer because of greedy people.

 

[lunarious]

Muslims and narcissists are not mutually exclusive. And how is what you said not itself a narcissistic statement?

Because I wish Divine Vengance on those whom abuse other people. And come into my "house" and steal it.

I'd like to respect that AutismForum is a good "house". But not houses not rightfully funded. And @tree tells me to forgive.

 

[Markness]

I agree one has to take responsibility. And there's a God to help you with that. He helps with control.

Our problem is we say in Norway "much wants more". ... So we need to accept little. We need acceptance.

There's a Paradise where you and I if we end there, where we can enjoy the fruit of our work. People as maybe autists suffer because of greedy people.

But apparently “God” couldn’t help John List when he thought murdering his family was the only way out of his financial rut.

Yet many religious figures horde tons of money and preach that if you don’t keep giving them more money, you won’t be “saved.” *rolls eyes*

“Paradise” has no evidence for existing and I would rather follow “Mark’s plan” than a vague one that has nothing other than “Just trust me, bro.” to substantiate it.

 

[lunarious]

We need evidence.

I told Hellspersonell when I came here; "Follow the Law". Even if it means stealing or abusing me or such, as submitting me.

The submitted me and tried to kill me, and learnt to follow Law.

 

[Markness]

If people are breaking the law, it’s far more productive to notify authorities instead of wishing for the problem to stop on its own.

 

[lunarious]

If people are breaking the law, it’s far more productive to notify authorities instead of wishing for the problem to stop on its own.

Allah will stop it.

In Islam we ask Allah for help and we Worship Him. We Believe Allah is superior over The Law.

If Allah and his people start to "speak the truth", society would collapse rightfully. You know people hate the Truth, right? And that's OK. But Allah helps us with control.

 

[tree]

... I wish Divine Vengance on those whom abuse other people. And @tree tells me to forgive.

No, tree did not tell you to forgive.

tree asked you why, rather than wishing "Divine Vengance" on people,
did you not pray Allah show mercy on wrong doers by changing their
hearts and minds so that they repent and ever after do good?

 

[lunarious]

No, tree did not tell you to forgive.

tree asked you why, rather than wishing "Divine Vengance" on people,

Prophet Mohammed (saws) said:

عَلَيْكُمْ بِالْعَفْوِ فَإِنَّ الْعَفْوَ لَا يَزِيدُ الْعَبْدَ إِلَّا عِزّاً فَتَعَافَوْا يُعِزَّكُمُ اللَّهُ

Pardoning is incumbent upon you, for verily pardoning [others] only increases a servant’s honor; so pardon each other’s faults and God will grant you honor.

Since you ask why, ... yet Authorities says we can't speak about things as Politics.

Evidently there are hungry people, and illeagal things happening opposing The Law. But i told Hellspersonell follow The Law even if it means 'abuising or murdering' me.

did you not pray Allah show mercy on wrong doers

I wanted to punish/help them for punishing me. I remember using the word punish them mentally, as I was incapeable of punishing them Physically.

But they whom break the law, Physical Punishment awaits them.

Forgiveness at control - Imam Ali

I can be 'commensurated' with a paradise. It would be a Muslim one.

by changing their hearts and mind hearts and minds so that they repent and ever after do good?

Is this possible? Always? (edit) i suspect fighting is part of Reality. A fight between equals. ... beating up someone weaker than you is indicative of weakness.

 

[Coxhere]

Since you ask why, ... yet Authorities says we can't speak about things as Politics.

Evidently there are hungry people, and illeagal things happening opposing The Law. But i told Hellspersonell follow The Law even if it means 'abuising or murdering' me.



I wanted to punish/help them for punishing me. I remember using the word punish them mentally, as I was incapeable of punishing them Physically.

But they whom break the law, Physical Punishment awaits them.

Forgiveness at control - Imam Ali

I can be 'commensurated' with a paradise. It would be a Muslim one.


Is this possible? Always? (edit) i suspect fighting is part of Reality. A fight between equals. ... beating up someone weaker than you is indicative of weakness.

In response to your, "I wanted to punish/help them for punishing me." is the "turn the other cheek" quote from the New Testament

AI Overview

The phrase "turn the other cheek" comes from the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew, specifically Matthew 5:38-42. It is part of Jesus's teaching on non-retaliation, where he instructs his followers not to resist an evil person. The passage reads: "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also". This teaching is also found in Luke 6:29, where Jesus says, "To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also".

In more detail:

• Matthew 5:38-42:
  Jesus contrasts his teaching with the Old Testament principle of "an eye for an eye".He encourages his followers to respond to violence and injustice with non-resistance and even generosity.
  
  
• Luke 6:29:
  This verse echoes the sentiment of Matthew 5:39, emphasizing the call to offer the other cheek when struck.
  
  
• Meaning:
  The phrase "turn the other cheek" is often interpreted as a call to non-violence and a rejection of the cycle of revenge. It encourages a response of mercy and love, even when wronged. Some scholars also suggest it is a way to shame the aggressor by demonstrating a refusal to engage in a violent conflict.
  
  
• Context:
  It's important to understand the context of these verses. Jesus was speaking to his disciples and followers, emphasizing the need for a transformed heart and a radical approach to love and forgiveness.