is it fair to lock up people who lost their passport during transit?

[alien girl]

if a tourist gets his passport pick pocketed or slips out of his pocket, and he just finds out in the airport, its my understanding that immigration throw him in a holding cell and then on the next plane back home.

if during the weekends when interior office is closed, and then takes time to get a flight back because maybe there are not empty seats on the plane, this might take even a few days.

in Israel, we issue temporary IDs, and the person walks. if we can do that in a country that has more terrorist attacks than all the countries in the world together, i dont see why others cant do it.

a terrorist or someone wanting to overstay his visa wouldnt want to draw unwanted attention by intentionally losing his passport. those people are no more likely to commit terror attacks or overstay their visa than anyone else.

besides, they can post bail or be put on electronic device in a hotel room they pay for themselves until their next plane back home. i'd imagine it's horrible being in solitary confinement for days, no human contact and nothing to do. it seems senseless to imprison them without a reason, when an electronic device is much less trouble. in the cell, immigration will have to bring them food, so it's just more work. and the food and cells cost money too.

let's say it were up to you, a tourist lost his passport, and it would take a day or two to clear it up and get him on a plane back home

 

[Judge]

I think you have to consider that "fair" only means something to democratic societies in varying circumstances and degrees when it comes to any nebulous sense of civil liberties.

There's also the issue of resources to consider. Some systems may rely on incarceration alone largely due to budget considerations and little else.

For other non-democratic societies, such considerations may be utterly meaningless.

 

[alien girl]

I think you have to consider that "fair" only means something to democratic societies in varying circumstances and degrees when it comes to any nebulous sense of civil liberties.

There's also the issue of resources to consider. Some systems may rely on incarceration alone largely due to budget considerations and little else.

For other non-democratic societies, such considerations may be utterly meaningless.

if it's budget they're worried about, they should consider how much money it costs to keep a person locked up: the space, food, cops that must watch him 24/7 and bring him food.
perhaps if he pays for his own hotel room, an electronic device would be cheaper. they buy it once and use it on a lot of people, can last for many years.
however, letting one go with a temporary ID is probably cheaper, too.

 

[Judge]

if it's budget they're worried about, they should consider how much money it costs to keep a person locked up: the space, food, cops that must watch him 24/7 and bring him food.

Not every country has adequate infrastructure or due process when it comes to detaining people. In some countries you may be thrown into a tiny locked cell with a bucket, no food and no one to keep an eye on you. Not to mention that there are legal systems in which one is presumed guilty until proven innocent. With little prospect of a speedy trial.

And then in some cases there may be systems where they aren't worried about such things. That they just don't care. Such values don't necessarily translate from one society to another. The world can be a scary place to be in the wrong place and wrong time...and possibly the wrong nationality.

 

[Etzelaire]

It's not fair because no one should be given the power of telling another one what to do. Sounds primitive but it's what I think, and I back up my insight with a believe of an outstanding phylosopher who said: being a citizen of a country is like waking up in a ship that is far into the sea and you are left with two options, either accept the rules of the captain or die.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I opt for temporary IDs. Surely to goodness there is a digital passport registry and our nations have enough sense to network with each other to easily verify a passport. But I'm probably putting too much faith in their responsibility and maturity.

 

[alien girl]

I opt for temporary IDs. Surely to goodness there is a digital passport registry and our nations have enough sense to network with each other to easily verify a passport. But I'm probably putting too much faith in their responsibility and maturity.

since when have politicians ever showed responsibility or maturity? lol.

 

[Ereth]

In my opinion, temporary IDs can pose quite the security risk, especially in certain areas of the world. I'm not saying everyone just needs to be locked up, but we need to look at the issue from the standpoint of a given country as a whole and not just that of an individual with a missing passport.

 

[Randomperson]

Get a tourist wallet, it hangs around your neck under your clothes, put your ID, passport, and most of your money in it, never get your pockets picked. Keep some reserve cash/cc in your socks.

Also, you will find very little about life to ever be fair, so it is best to prevent unfairness whenever possible, especially when it comes to losing your own stuff.

 

[alien girl]

In my opinion, temporary IDs can pose quite the security risk, especially in certain areas of the world. I'm not saying everyone just needs to be locked up, but we need to look at the issue from the standpoint of a given country as a whole and not just that of an individual with a missing passport.

even if there's a security risk and if electronic device isnt safe enough, they can put the person in a minimum security jail for white collar criminals, and inform the jailors he's allowed to walk in the building and yard anytime he wants, for as long as he wants without permission, and let him order his own food from outside if that's what he wants to do, and not wear prison uniforms, and not told when to wake up and when turn out the lights, or anything like that, because the reason why he's there is for security reasons and not to punish or play power games.

there are ways to keep someone from doing harm, there are many ways, but it seems the authorities insist on the most punishing and less human way they can find whenever they can. makes you wonder if they get their kicks out of it...

 

[Ereth]

Obviously I'm not advocating overly punitive measures for the average tourist. But it depends on whether the person's identity can be properly verified, honestly, and for what purpose he or she is traveling.

 

[Judge]

even if there's a security risk and if electronic device isnt safe enough, they can put the person in a minimum security jail for white collar criminals, and inform the jailors he's allowed to walk in the building and yard anytime he wants, for as long as he wants without permission, and let him order his own food from outside if that's what he wants to do, and not wear prison uniforms, and not told when to wake up and when turn out the lights, or anything like that, because the reason why he's there is for security reasons and not to punish or play power games.

there are ways to keep someone from doing harm, there are many ways, but it seems the authorities insist on the most punishing and less human way they can find whenever they can. makes you wonder if they get their kicks out of it...

Unfortunately some countries offer only draconian methods of enforcing laws in general based on cultural and religious beliefs. Additionally some nations have an institutional kind of "national paranoia" endemic over several centuries which precludes them from having cordial methods of handling the inconvenience of someone who legitimately loses their visa/passport. Such "power games" are very important to such cultures and political systems.

Reminds me of my mother's experience as a tourist with a valid passport behind the "Iron Curtain" in the early 80s. Her traveling from Rostock to "Checkpoint Charlie" was not a pleasant experience. But then it wasn't supposed to be from the DDR's perspective.

As an Israeli citizen, try to imagine what might happen to you if you were to innocently land in Pyongyang's airport even with a perfectly legitimate passport. It would not be pleasant- by design. No, it isn't fair. And yes, they wouldn't care.

 

[alien girl]

Unfortunately some countries offer only draconian methods of enforcing laws in general based on cultural and religious beliefs. Additionally some nations have an institutional kind of "national paranoia" endemic over several centuries which precludes them from having cordial methods of handling the inconvenience of someone who legitimately loses their visa/passport. Such "power games" are very important to such cultures and political systems.

Reminds me of my mother's experience as a tourist with a valid passport behind the "Iron Curtain" in the early 80s. Her traveling from Rostock to "Checkpoint Charlie" was not a pleasant experience. But then it wasn't supposed to be from the DDR's perspective.

As an Israeli citizen, try to imagine what might happen to you if you were to innocently land in Pyongyang's airport even with a perfectly legitimate passport. It would not be pleasant- by design. No, it isn't fair. And yes, they wouldn't care.

oh, just one more tiny little thing...
i just learned on the net that if a flight lands and the passengers are supposed to switch planes, and the flight gets canceled because of bad weather, and some dont have visas (because you dont always need a visa if you're just changing planes), they're asked to stay in the transition area, and they cant get out because it's very secure with guards, alarms, and cameras.
in other words, they have the power to prevent someone from leaving easily and securely WITHOUT locking him in solitary confinement. they can escort him to a room and let him sleep there, and then back to the transition area. and if they lock him up, they'd have to bring him food anyway, so it's the same amount of work.
what i'm trying to say is, they have absolutely no reason to do that, and they seem to do it simply because they have the power, and i find it deeply disturbing and wonder what kind of people they are...